A Letter from Anonymous

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posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 10:29 AM
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reply to post by EFGuy
 


A point well taken and very right,so what would happen if the internet were shut down?No doubt the elite that may be controlling all this has already created another way to do buisness and communicate.

Can anybody imagine life without the Internet,what a rush!!




posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 11:09 AM
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reply to post by samkent
 


First of all, there is a difference between stealing information and distributing and/or publishing information.

Manning, if indeed the person responsible for providing the documents to Wikileaks -- stolen documents -- then he is guilty of theft, treason, possibly espionage, etc. Manning would be the worker you refer to that stole and copied your social security number in your hypothetical example.

Now, publishers -- such as the NY Times, Wall Street Journal & Wikileaks -- are protected by the First Amendment so long as the information is: true, newsworthy, and accurately reported. Could they then publish your social security number? No, because it does not constitute newsworthy information that the general public would be interested to know and/or read.

See the distinction?

I believe that is the US Government takes Assange to trial before the Supreme Court in the US, they are going to have a hard time finding him guilty of a crime unless the Supreme Court also amends the First Amendment rights of publishers. And to do that -- every newspaper, magazine, etc. is going to get on board that fight. Whether they agree with Assange or not.

Lastly, if someone were to die as a result of this leak, Wikileaks is still protected. However, Manning would face the death penalty if prosecuted instead of life in prison which is the maximum sentence right now.


Although Wikileaks’ foreign editors might be prosecuted under U.S. law for obtaining classified military records, it was not unlawful to publish the information, concluded a report from the Congressional Research Service.



But the CRS report, written by national security law specialist Jennifer K. Elsea, turned up a 1964 district court decision which suggested that foreign publishers do enjoy First Amendment rights, if only because American readers have a right to the information that they publish. “The essence of the First Amendment right to freedom of the press is not so much the right to print as it is the right to read,” that court ruled. Therefore, “the rights of readers are not to be curtailed because of the geographical origin of printed materials.”



Notice the huge, blaring word "obtaining". NOT, publishing.

Source: www.firstamendmentcoalition.org...

Please, people, do not fall into the trap of giving away our First Amendment Rights because we don't like what someone used their right to do.



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 11:13 AM
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I was on the fence about wikileaks before, but judging by the reactions they are getting, I am leaning now towards them being legit. Alot of members' true colors are shining brightly on these wikileaks threads. So many that have pretended to be angry with, and distrust the government in the past (based on the game of partisan politics), are suddenly calling for Assange's death for "treason", and even calling for action against anybody who supports wikileaks. Now that somebody may actually have real evidence that our government is indeed corrupt to the core, and does NOT work for the people, they want nothing to do with it and are lashing out in every direction. That's very eye opening for me personally.



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 11:19 AM
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i like their idea but find their position on "not the same today as in the past" (paraphrased), rather transparent. so right NOW, they are for everyone's freedoms, particularly freedom of speech and a year ago, they were all up in the scientology thing, trying to interfer with scientologists freedoms (freedom of religion? hello?). although i agree that scientology is a difficult organization and probably deserves the bad media they have gotten, the idea this Anon thing can just change hats like a chameleon, leads me to believe they aren't thinking it thru all the way before acting. it's like chaff being blown about by the wind, fitting whatever agenda seems most convenient to their lifestyle IN PARTICULAR. and people who use their free speech to disagree with a position Anon may take? not that i disagree, mind you, as i think freedom of speech is a lovely thing (provided it doesn't endanger the lives of others), but uh...guys? yours is not the only lifestyle on the planet.



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 11:23 AM
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Okey, here's my question if these wikileaks are soooo fighting for freedom of speech, then why are they just attacking the US? Let's release top secret info from say china? Russia? ect. Why just attck the US an US intrests? Personally I think your on obama's payroll, the biggest leaks seem to of came after he took office and after he went on his apology tour. Where's obama expressing his out rage about these "leaks"? Strange he hasn't said one thing against it, oh his puppets have made little show grumblings about it, but nothing more.
You speek of a "free internet" what do you suppose the fallout'll be after this? A free internet?
This reaks. No, there's more going on behind the curtain an what were seeing.



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 11:30 AM
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Freedom of speech is one thing. Government and corporations colluding to deny a person rights is something else entirely. What is the appropriate response to that collusion, exactly? Why is it okay for governments to utilize cyberwarfare but illegal when someone else does it?

Two wrongs do not a make a right but they can sometimes teach one hell of a lesson.



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 11:34 AM
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reply to post by Chance321
 


Less than 1% of the cables have been released. How anyone can draw firm conclusions about anything is baffling.



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by Cablespider
 


Your right, your right. But who's to say we're not being played? What better way covertly then to have a wikileaks start releasing huge amounts of US info, the government steps in saying enough is enough "for your own good We need to control the net."
This whole thing feels like a set up.



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 11:38 AM
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reply to post by Chance321
 


It's not just the U.S., although at this point in history, we are the ones with our fingers in the most crap all over the world, so naturally we're gonna be involved in alot of the dirty little secrets coming out. Our government fought a cold war with Russia, and we went to hot war a couple times to stop them from gaining influence around the world. Maybe if we hadn't, Russia would be involved in more but we kinda smothered out their fire long ago. China is just now emerging as a world power, so it's a little early to expect alot from them. But, before you make any calls on who or what the leaks implicate, wait til they all come out. We really have no idea who all is gonna be involved...



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by undo
 


Anon is you and me.

We both have differences and only react to changes to circumtances from time to time, BUT NEVER wavering from the idealism of freedom. Freedom is not free. It comes at a price and that price is the ground you stand on, either rightly or ignorantly. But we have the capacity to realize and correct mistakes if we are wrong.

And that price of freedom comes with consideration to others - the majority at whole. There will be differences, but ultimately, you and I share common aspirations in life - peace, prosperity, equality and progress, and that will be the common ground you and I will share and fight with our precious blood for, if not ourselves, but for the next generations to come, as our forefathers had sacrificed themselves for us.

You and I are bonded to each other, and that bond is humanity.

Some may say that freedom fighters show themselves upfront with nothing to hide and being annonymous is cowardly. Allow me to qoute you a phrase from our ancestors whom knew mankind more than we even know today. 'Know yourself, know your enemies, a thousand battles fought, a thousand won.' by Sun Tzi in his treatise 'Art of war'.

The enemies of mankind hide behind the veils of secrecy to impose their tyranny upon mankind. For us all to be open and upfront is to be suicidal. While our authorities will not hesitate to sacrifice anyone using blind loyalty and later weep crocodile tears or use lame excuses for their actions, the rest of us common men will never allow any sacrifice to be made, for each life is precious, if not to us, it will be to someone else. None will be left behind, if we can help it.

Thus, to fight them, is to be like them, hidden behind veils of secrecy to strike back till they are forced to come to the light for a final confrontation - man to man to determine finally mankind's future direction and fulfillment of our destiny.

Anon is you and me, for now, with billion others more anon to replace us when we are unveiled. Utopia is a dream, but everything begins with a dream. To class dreams as useless is an insult to the human spirit which had turn dreams into reality with hardwork throughout this civilisation of humanity. It is only an excuse to not attempt, to make mistakes, correct them and progress.

The realisation of dreams and ideals begins with you and me, with no more excuses, if not for ourselves, it will be for the innocent next generations to come....

edit on 10-12-2010 by SeekerofTruth101 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by Chance321
Your right, your right. But who's to say we're not being played? What better way covertly then to have a wikileaks start releasing huge amounts of US info, the government steps in saying enough is enough "for your own good We need to control the net."
This whole thing feels like a set up.


I don't honestly see how they could do that. China isn't having the easiest time with it, and our government will still have at least appear to support freedom, or else they're gona lose ALOT of fence sitters. I don't see that as a legitimate concern...



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 11:42 AM
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reply to post by 27jd
 


Granted. But from the very beginning this whole thing hasn't felt right. Like I said in an earlier post, it feels more like we're being played.



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 11:46 AM
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i had a website called "Secrets of Sumer." It was essentially, just a big link page, with links to ancient texts from all the ancient cultures, the bible in over 30 different languages, egyptian texts, sumerian, akkadian, babylonian, greek texts, dictionaries, encyclopedias, on various ancient languages, like cuneiform and hieroglyphics, and for some strange reason, a hacker kept hacking the main page and bringing it down, over and over. oddly enough, it was quite similar to sacredtexts.com and encyclopedia mythica, but for some reason, my site, in particular, kept getting hacked.

if i put a forum up, it'd get hacked right away, within the first 24 hours. what the hell for? i have no idea. it was an information site. so there went my freedom of speech, real quick like.

p.s. the hacker identified himself as "Apophis" or something like that. some smarty pants who thought it'd be funny i guess.
edit on 10-12-2010 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 11:47 AM
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Go wikileaks

And thanks



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by Chance321
 


I kinda felt that way too, at first. But as this has all unfolded, you can see the reactions from those who have been trying to play us all along. Like I said in my above post, there have been alot of members here that in the past pretended to stand with the people, but since this happened they are now saying that we should be good little sheep, and that we don't have the right to know "everything", parroting the usual government lines about threatening national security and soldiers getting killed (at a time of war, surprise) and calling for the death of Assange, and anybody who participates in leaking this info. Even though, exposing these lies, and the true reasons our soldiers are in harms way, may prompt the population to demand their return to safety, thus saving soldiers lives.



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 11:52 AM
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Point being when you have an elite family like the Rothchilds that own half the worlds debt and 200 trillion in assets do you really think that anything happens in this world without a "controlled' reason behind it??


Why is it whenever something happens some people think there is some billionaire behind a curtain pulling ropes?

Is it because they are on the lower end of the economy?
Or little man syndrome?

I’m not rich but I would expect that once you get over a few hundred million the material part of life has been satisfied. And how much fun can it be to control the little people when you never see them?


Next point

Since when is JA’s actions protected by US law? He is not an American and as far as I know Wikileaks is not an American entity.

Third point

I wonder if JA will release a transcript of his talks with his attorney?




Now, publishers -- such as the NY Times, Wall Street Journal & Wikileaks -- are protected by the First Amendment so long as the information is: true, newsworthy, and accurately reported. Could they then publish your social security number? No, because it does not constitute newsworthy information that the general public would be interested to know and/or read.


Who defined what is news worthy?

To use the general consensus guidelines around here, I could start up the Identity Thieves News Network and publish ways to steal and SS numbers, and still be protected. Plus I should be allowed to receive payments from all the CC processors.



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by Chance321
 


Honestly, I don't worry about the net. That threat is minimal compared to the overall scope of this. The backlash from such an endeavor will be massive. From it, something new will spawn; something greater. Something we control. I say let it happen. I prefer it remain the same but holding onto that seems impossible anyway. A greater consciousness can rise from the ashes if we insist on letting go at some point.

Let them have it and watch the opposition grow. Maybe then people will again face each other and work towards unity rather than allow governments to pit us against each other with petty wedge issues. We all have more in common than not. People just aren't seeing that.
edit on 10-12-2010 by Cablespider because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 11:58 AM
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reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 


those are all noble ideals and i have no qualm with them, but i keep getting this sneakin' suspicion that this is one of those examples of create the problem, offer the solution, which resolves into what the problem creator wanted in the first place. for example, it is not lost on me that, as a result of my readings into the strange that is scientology, they believe the devil is like a hive mind of thetans or whatever, who think they are one entity, like a god. so what do we have in anon? an organization promoting itself like a hive mind, sure to scare the kajeebas outta scientologists everywhere. almost as if it's sea org attacking itself, to inspire its members to greatness.

it also isn't lost on me that data on scientology says that they infiltrated various branches of the gov, collected sensitive documents, and held them as bargaining chips and black mail devices. this is kinda what wiki leaks is doing.

i dunno. the whole thing is bizarre



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 12:09 PM
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100% behind anon, there letter did seem a little cheesy. That being said how do you explain what they are doing without sounding a little nerdy. It also sounds a bit to much like they are trying too hard to get the people on there side.

I was pissed when I when to a torrent site the other day and it had just been seized without court order, they just changed the rules. So fight fire with fire. GOOD ON YOU GUYS. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.

Oh to all the people disagreeing, you are the type of people who will just walk into a concentration camp if the government tells you its for the best. Look at the big picture.

From a fellow supporter
edit on 10-12-2010 by 1IN7MILLION because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2010 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by 1IN7MILLION
 


don't tell me what i will and will not do! comprende' amigo!

the nerve of some people.





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