Texas Woman Jailed for Overdue Library Books

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


There's a term for this... "transferrence", and you're quite the adept.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

Boy the site sure could use a minimum age requirement.

I'm afraid that would prevent you from participating, though.

Oh are you getting tired of chewing on that little minnow and want to try chewing on something different.

Rots of ruck there scoopie doo!

This woman is a victim of overzealous unconstitutinal code enforcement and suffered an agregeous loss of personal liberty as a result of these dyspicable acts by the corporate for profit state, and it's armed henchmen.

We have seen similar stories evidenced in this thread by our own members, including the man who lost a two year old child to the fire that claimed the library books he borrowed.

He too ended up in jail during a time of extreme personal tragedy, as a result of over zealous code enforcement and a blind system of extortion not justice.

This is an appalling story, made no less so by the appalling and mean spirited and petty arguments of dissaffected and self absorbed people who favor such draconian punishments.

The Government is out of trust with the people.

It is that simple.

Your inability to see that is probably due to a tender age, and only a limited frame of reference regarding the nations history as a result of that.

You likely haven't lived enough years as some of us have, to see the steady decline in wages, economic opportunities, the rise of total corporate dominance and monopolies, the drastic increase of laws regulating every aspect of existence for the profit and control of the state, the selling out of journalistic indegrity to become schills for the corporate government and their enterprises. You probably think this is all normal and acceptable simply because it's the only thing you know, and imagine there is some virtue in defending it and promoting it.

I do not suffer this, and your arguments are certainly not persuassive ones except to those limited by that same brand of crippled epistemology that permeates and infects the minds of such docile individuals.

The proof of the dysfunction and greed of the corporate state is clearly evidenced in the fact that it's actions did not actually lead to the replacement of the books, the very thing you purport being 'concerned and offended' about.

The State spent far more money not replacing the books, and in fact provided you no remedy at all as a result.

Your inability to not see that the state provided a non-remedy, or the utter failure in that regard, simply leaves you railing against a victim (the defendant) instead of the perpetrator (the State) who could have replenished the books lost in a fire much more easily and cost effectively had that been the laws actual aim, to safeguard the library and the book.

That is not it's aim though, it's aim is to make profit for the state, through it's instution by a rigid enforcement of the rules that are designed precisely to create profit opportunities and control opportunities for the state.

Money is not power, but those with power will always be able to use it to make money. In this case it's all about getting people like you to grant the state it's power, not to actually replace what you feel was lost and denied to you through an accidental fire and a poor woman's failure to be of sufficient means to make good on that loss herself, but to simply perpetuate it's own power, by convincing you that somehow justice was served even though the state did not replace the books.

It's a shame you don't get it, but hey cannon fodder is always needed.

Thanks.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Your inability to see that is probably due to a tender age
...
You likely haven't lived enough years as some of us have
...

Again and again, you are making assumption as you please which bear no relation to reality. This applies to this lady being construed as a victim of "draconian" regime, and to my "being of tender age". I've lived long enough to appreciate the importance of at least some responsibility, of course your mileage will vary.

reply to post by Maxmars


Context: The de facto Court is a Corporation, a business. It's aim is to make a profit.

Someone in jail makes a profit for the Corporation or one of its offshoots, once the initial outlay has been covered, which in this case, is the $10.000.

No, I'm not making any accusations here, I just think as part of the wider context it is worth taking motive into account. Just sayin'

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Return the books!

Constitution says no imrpisonment for debt.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


It's a mad, mad world we are living in.
That's ok, in a couple of years it just won't matter anymore.

Texas is like this, so it doesnt surprise me in the least!!!

If a commoner commits a minor no-no like this, the consequence and penalty is horribly HARSH!!!

But let an oil-tycoon or wealthy business man murder people, he'll get a slap on the wrist.

Thats Texas' way of handling those things. Dont mess with TEXAS, as they are AZZ-BACKWARDS down there.

They hate the commoners down there. Ever see the middle-class ratio down there?!!! Only wealthy and dirt poor, thats it!!

What a MESS down there. Thoes "good ol Republican boys and their "Red" states sure loving the wealthy folk only!!

If she took out a couple more books, the penalty would probably have been EXECUTION.

Good ol Texas.

Read half of the responses here so far.

What I am thinking is along biz lines - in that it is not cost effective to bother with such a small dollar amount.

What has the cost of this all got to by now? With all the police and courts and lawyers.... I will guess 50K. Probably alot more.

Not cost effective. For those who paid for it (tax payers) - but very enriching for those making a profit.

Of course the person has responsibility - whether or not this woman is "guilty" - or innocent due to circumstance (fire) - is a separate issue.

There was still all the cost of prosecuting this - which is a huge waste of money over a small amount of money.

And it's an EXTREMELY OBSCURE thing also. Maybe there's some justification in pursuing a violent armed robbery that nets $200, done by a repeat offender.

But this case is very obscure and (I would guess) does not happen that much. WHY waste all the money on pursuing it? What about those crack heads beating old ladies to death for $200? Where there is CLEAR guilt also?

And what about all these high level financial people who CLEARLY CHEAT - require bailouts but still somehow none of the operations they conducted were deemed illegal AND alot of them still kept - and even RECEIVED big $ bonuses after their deceit and downright illegal dealings were shown?

What about repeat drunk drivers? What about people beating the hell out of each other? Where is "justice" here?

Little kids cannot even get protection from bullies.

How about people who get SCREWED by "the system" and they can't "fix" it? ID theft, wrongfully imprisoned people - there are people in prison right now who have been CLEARED of their crimes - yet they still sit in prison because the gov has not got around to completing the paperwork! No kidding - look it up. I don't know about you - but if the courts found me innocent - I'd wanna be walking out of that jail IMMEDIATELY. Which is the right thing to happen. But no, there they sit because of bureaucracy.

Yet there IS money enough to go after obscure and petty "criminals" ?

I guess I'm due to be picked up soon myself - I cut those tags off pillows which said DO NOT REMOVE UNDER PENALTY OF LAW!!! Cut them off my mattress as well. I suppose this makes me a "repeat offender". Serial Criminal.

Please note - in case I was not clear - I do not think stealing is right and crime must be dealt with. REAL crime, anyway. This woman's case appears that she did not necessarily steal on purpose. It should've been dealt with at a lower level and resolved. Library should've resolved it. And if they could not - they should have wrote it off. It is too small of amount to deal with.

Escalating stupid and bizarre things like this may be over zealous authority figures - whether or not its part of a grand plan remains to be seen.

reply to post by jontap


Yep, that's Texas in a nutshell. We're all "AZZ-BACKWARDS" down here. We do like our commoners though. Who else would we impose our draconian justice system on if not for them? Thank goodness we don't waste our money by having SWAT teams raid barber shops, or letting big city bankers run down innocent folks and get off scott free.

We gonna get our books back though. Good ol' Texas!

Originally posted by retiredTxn
reply to post by jontap

 

Yep, that's Texas in a nutshell. We're all "AZZ-BACKWARDS" down here. We do like our commoners though. Who else would we impose our draconian justice system on if not for them? Thank goodness we don't waste our money by having SWAT teams raid barber shops, or letting big city bankers run down innocent folks and get off scott free.

We gonna get our books back though. Good ol' Texas!

Judging by the HUGE amount of news always making the limelight on the ATS forums about Texas all the time relating to ABSOLUTE ABSURD NONSENSE going on in that state, that alone is enough for someone to see that Texas a bit backwards much of the time...

But one step further than that is the FACT that I have LIVED there for several years as well to have received a FRONT-ROW seat to it all.

So, take your "nutshells" and "Texas pride crap" and (BLEEP, BLEEP, BLEEP), got it?!

reply to post by jontap


Kind sir, if I may, where in my post did I espouse "Texas pride", or for that matter, say anything to offend you personally? Please show me the error of my ways.

As for the "ABSOLUTE ABSURD NONSENSE going on in that state", I trust nothing "ABSURD" happens in any of the other 49 states, in your opinion? You living here for several years does not make you an expert regarding absolute absurd nonsense allegedly going on in this state. Take a step back, and a few deep breaths. Feel better?

As to the absurdity of this particular case, this kind of thing happens all over these United States. Direct your anger toward the individuals responsible, not at those who post here and don't agree or like the venomous statements you spew. Do something productive and help fix the laws of this particular city.

As to your final statement, maybe tomorrow during recess, you can re-think your statement, and find a way to redeem your childish actions. I have lived in Texas for 51 years, and have never understood why some resort to such a childish manner, rather than engage in a little civil discourse with a side of satire. So no, I don't get it.

...the books burned when her house burned down.... okay, thats sucky luck - but - they werent her books... the books belong to the public library and she owes the replacement costs of those books...

...she couldve paid off one book a year (thats real dang cheap) and avoided all this trouble - but - like so many, she ignored a debt she knew she owed...

...no pity for this woman... she's a bum and theres tons of bums just like her who think its okay to check out a book and never return it or lose it or let their kids destroy it...

...public libraries are an essential, imo, and she ripped us off... thats how i see it...

So this tells us that we should obey all the rules when we do something ,if morality can't restrict us,then the law can.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


No.

You are wrong.

Did you even ead the post?

She had 200 dollars worth of books. They were "burned." When you check out a library book you are responsible if the book is lost or damaged. She was responsible. I highly doubt they would just throw her in jail. The warned her several times, she refused, so she STOLE 200 dollars.

Thats how it happened, its not because her books were overdue, it was because she stole 200 dollars worth of books. And a book is maybe 20 bucks. That means the fugo had 10 books, and did not think she had the responsibility to replace them?

So your saying, if i go into your house. Smash your 200 dollar monitor, that it would be wrong for me to go to jail because i refused to pay you?

Originally posted by doom27
So your saying, if i go into your house. Smash your 200 dollar monitor, that it would be wrong for me to go to jail because i refused to pay you?

Exactly... Let's see what PT has to say when someone accidentally bumps his car for $500 damage and runs away.

reply to post by doom27


Why does everyone think she borrowed $200 worth of books?

Few -- who was charged with a class-C misdemeanor -- has reportedly stated that the books were destroyed in a house fire seven years ago. She says her landlord, the fire department and even the Red Cross can attest to the blaze.

Seven years of fines at $.05 per day.

1 book = .05 x 7 x 365 = $127.75 in overdue fees.

That's one book.

So, by my calcs, $200 is about 2 books worth of overdue fees.

2 books = about $30 to replace.

1 week in jail = $10,000.00 tax payer dollars.

Real justice served there.

Originally posted by Nutter
1 week in jail = $10,000.00 tax payer dollars.

Real justice served there.

So what? If somebody assaults you and hits you in the face, there is no monetary damage at all, assuming that your bruise quickly heals. Are you saying that the assailant needs to be set free to save taxpayers' bucks?

Originally posted by buddhasystem
So what? If somebody assaults you and hits you in the face, there is no monetary damage at all, assuming that your bruise quickly heals. Are you saying that the assailant needs to be set free to save taxpayers' bucks?

No. I'm saying that the "fine" should be replacing the books. Not time in jail for overdue fees.

BTW, pain and suffering DOES have a monetary value to it. Or people couldn't be sued for it.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by doom27
So your saying, if i go into your house. Smash your 200 dollar monitor, that it would be wrong for me to go to jail because i refused to pay you?

Exactly... Let's see what PT has to say when someone accidentally bumps his car for $500 damage and runs away.

What PT always says, it's only a car, thank heavens no one got hurt.

People are what have value not things. Things can always be replaced or fixed, people can't. Ultimately if I want to drive a nice car the responsibility is on me to maintain it. It's a risk, life is fluid and there are no gaurantees.

Kind of like if you want to read a book, the responsibility is on you to find, buy, borrow or steal said book!

It seems to me some people are overly reliant on the government, and have expectations it clearly can't live up too.

I think many people have displayed the government could have replaced those books many times over with the time, effort and expense it invested in persecuting this poor hapless woman.

I actually find the attitudes of those who don't get that to be hysterical.

It's like a bunch of kids sitting in a room, and one of them does something wrong, and mommy or daddy says, "No TV for anyone until we find out who stole the cookie from the cookie jar".

So rather than display solidary and trust with everyone else in the room, and band together and accuse mom and dad of what they are "TYRANNICAL COOKIE HORDERS" and demanding more cookies, and telling them to take their TV and shove it, you turn on one another like a bunch of snakes.

Pretty pathetic if you ask me!

What a bunch of Nazis this country has bred.

Originally posted by Nutter

Originally posted by buddhasystem
So what? If somebody assaults you and hits you in the face, there is no monetary damage at all, assuming that your bruise quickly heals. Are you saying that the assailant needs to be set free to save taxpayers' bucks?

No. I'm saying that the "fine" should be replacing the books. Not time in jail for overdue fees.

In case you followed this thread, you's discover that she was given 7 years to rectify situation and she didn't. How do you "fine" a person who shows you a middle finger every time you make a reasonable request?