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Reversing The Roles Of God and Satan

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cj6

posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 01:06 PM
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Im not really into religion that much it just seems like a trap to me. I try to observe things and form conclusions for myself. So i was thinking....is it possible that there has been a conspiracy since the beginning of mankind to reverse the roles of God and Satan?? God has always seemed more like a tyrant to me. I mean the very idea of religion and God worship just seems like SLAVERY! Your forced to get on ur knees and pray to him for everything, ur told what to do and what not to do, ur forced to believe that certain actions are "evil" and u will be punished for them and the list goes on and on and on. People kill in the name of God, people hate other people because they believe in a "different god" and blah blah blah! Nothing good comes from God or religion! Its all a bunch of contradictions and mind-controlled slavery. Not to mention how many children are molested by priests and other ppl who are supposed to be God followers or whatever they call themselves. Its disgusting!! I do not and never will trust religious ppl! Yet on the other hand u have Satan...who is the exact opposite. Satan says do what u want! Do what makes u happy! Just seems weird to me that Satan gets such a bad rep but maybe thats wat religious ppl want us to believe and maybe its just not true. Maybe following God and religion is evil and Satan is the way to true FREEDOM. Just a thought...im sure there are others with different opinions and i would love to hear them.




posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 01:10 PM
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???? im sorry but im not FORCED to do any of those things. God does not force himself onto you. you CHOOSE to love him and through your love you CHOOSE to pray to him and you CHOOSE to worship him


cj6

posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by the illuminator
 


Ya but its a belief that if u dont do those things then u will "go to hell" thats what lots of religious ppl have told me. So that tells me that u are FORCED to do them out of fear.



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 01:16 PM
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I am considering this concept for a short story/storyboard with the precept that the 'God' beings from ancient times set up a system of religion for the purpose of subjecting lesser beings in the galaxy to their will. The Lucifer character, cast out (or down) for defiance acting the part of the 'freedom fighter'/'revolutionary' protagonist. Kind of like the Star Wars universe in that the Satan/Lucifer character is leading a 'rebel alliance', but here on Earth, with Human beings as unwitting medians.


cj6

posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by DeltaChaos
the 'God' beings from ancient times set up a system of religion for the purpose of subjecting lesser beings in the galaxy to their will. .


that sounds about right
thats what im trying to say about God and religion. Its just another way to enslave ppl.



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by cj6
 


That's probably why Satanism exists. Most Satanists don't actually believe in Satan but they generally follow the ideals of the Biblical character - Free thought, pleasure, pride, etc.

Satan in the Bible is a tough one because many times the word is used to mean a human adversary and its hard to tell when its talking about the supernatural and when it isn't. Most ideas of Satan we take for granted are all interpretative inventions of the Church or mythology that grew up around Christianity (such as depicting the Devil as similar to the Greek God Pan - as a satyr).

Generally I agree with you. The God of the Bible is a dictator, he's also the only one that threatens you with Hell if you won't obey. Whenever you read the Old Testament it is God who is judging people, God is sending the Israelites out to commit genocide, God who is condoning slavery, etc while Satan does very little to harm anyone.

I've had discussions with Christians who tell me that God is offering to save me from Hell but they fail to realize that God also created Hell and its God's fault I'm in danger of Hell. They also tell me that I can either join Satan or God and that if I do choose to go my own way than I have chosen Satan's way by default. So apparently free thought and actually exercising your free will is "Satan's way" to some (not all) Christians


cj6

posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 01:29 PM
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reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 


THANK YOU!!! U said it all better than i did



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 01:31 PM
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wow....



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 01:41 PM
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Wow?
Wow, I never thought of it that way before? Or, wow, you are deceived, and I'm getting out of here wow?
I have met very few Christians who will actually stop and ask themselves these questions. They immediately say no way, that's wrong, and here's why. Because it's not submissive, you are nothing, worthless without God, and if you do not see that I feel bad, scared for you.
I care not to ever persuade anyone to do anything, but think. Just stop and think. If in the end one has truly asked questions and still objects Hooray! They decided for themselves, and that is beautiful. But to deny themselves, for any reason? Well I guess that is the true nature of Christianity to the core.
edit on 2-12-2010 by recycled because: punctuation



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 01:45 PM
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LMFAO @ priests molesting people comment
Seriously gunna blame there religion for this?

Its simple god says dont judge, and follow ten simple rules, dont kill, dont cheat, dont lie, dont steal, honor your elders, and so on.

Same with any religions god's there's people who follow these rules and are good loving caring helpful people, and there the bad ones who harm others because there beliefs differ.

The devil is temptation. He wants you to do whatever you want, but if everyone did that, there'd be a lot of dead people.



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by cj6
reply to post by the illuminator
 


Ya but its a belief that if u dont do those things then u will "go to hell" thats what lots of religious ppl have told me. So that tells me that u are FORCED to do them out of fear.


That differs from person to person. I believe if you try your best, and be a good person you go to heaven. Thats why theres forgiveness.



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by cj6
So i was thinking....is it possible that there has been a conspiracy since the beginning of mankind to reverse the roles of God and Satan??


Since you are speaking of 'God and Satan' I will assume you are referring to the Judaeo-Christian belief system.

Now, everything that I type here is an interpretation of history. It is based on archaeological evidence, and the bible itself. Others have different opinions. Mine is not an unpopular one in academic circles, but there are other learned points of view that differ.

Not exactly since the 'beginning of mankind', and I wouldn't exactly say 'reversed'. You are dealing with different societies, and cultures. What we value is not necessarily the same on their list of priorities. Having put in that disclaimer, here is the condensed version of The Fall of Satan.

There once was a Canaanite (okay he goes back further but for the sake of expedience we will maintain the biblical historical paradigm), god called Ba'al. He was the son of El. During this period in history Ba'al was considered 'king' of the gods. He was also not a nice guy. He was a tyrant too. Not only a tyrant but one that would demand the sacrifice of your children as well. The current socio-political infrastructure included a quasi theocracy at times, and always a very wealthy, very powerful priesthood.

Ba'al had a little brother. His name was Yahweh. (This is arguable. There are many hints and allusions to that throughout history, but it is hard to pin down. However, there is one found Uguritic text that claims Yahweh was the 'son of El.') He wasn't nearly as popular, or as powerful. He was kind of the annoying, under-achieving, over-privileged archetype at this point. However, apparently he got motivated, got off his butt, and his following grew for various reasons. Over time (centuries) he was able to become an actual threat to his brother.

In the real world this meant that the followers of Yahweh eventually had their own culture and even their own country(s). Many of the Yahweh cultists within the Babylonian Empire felt repressed and persecuted... (Because they were.) Many of the followers of Yahweh felt that the Babylonian Empire was a callous cess pool of debauchery and brutality (because it sort of was), and it was all the fault of their gods. Now, since deities featured so prominently in the power structures of the time this was such a standard course of thought that I don't know if it would even occur to people to think of it any other way. All of this means that you had powerful people jockeying for more power and using the gods to add that extra push of self-righteousness, submission (and fear... the threat of eternal damnation is an amazing motivator) needed to cajole regular people to start hacking at each other with sharp bits of metal.

In the end the upstart Yahweh won, and Ba'al was eventually given the name Ba'al Zebub (lord of the flies), and got slapped with a lot of other names throughout the centuries until we have the current incarnation--Satan. Now, this is arguable as well, and plenty of people will. Evolution of language is dicey at best, and to further confuse the issue Ba'al means 'lord' at the end of the day. But if you really start to follow the trail back, it's hard to draw any other conclusion. But either way... 'Cast down' indeed.

So yes, people kill and maim and do terrible things in the name of God. Any god really. It's a cheap and never-fail-effective way to motivate The Great Unwashed. That trick never gets old. It also provides a salve to the psyche so that one can hurt people and feel justified. Human nature does that; not gods, they're just the excuse.

I believe that any one human being is more capable of coming up with twisted, cruel ways to hurt each other than any malevolent god/demon/djiin/supernatural force could think of. I also think that any one human being is more capable of grace and compassion than any angel. Usually expressed by the same individual. It's a thing.



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by dementedtheclown
 


Yes, their religion tells them that they are not allowed to have sex with a woman, so after all the years of celibacy they finally slip up and prey on someone weaker. The church is also responsible for trying to hide it for years until it erupted last year.

When you think about it, religious people are 'bribed' by god with the promise of paradise, but only if they are a good person. A person who doesn't believe in the afterlife or god who is good to people and is a charitable person is surely a better person because they have no supernatural incentive

Everyone who thinks that satan is evil; bear in mind how many people has god killed in the bible, and how many satan has killed



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 02:23 PM
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If you check out what ancient gnostics (early christians) thoughts about Ialdabaoth - or Saklas alias Zabaoth Jehovah or whatever - the reversal of roles isn't that farfetched.

Saklas, in his ignorance, said that "I am the God, and there is no other gods besides me", which he later regrets. Besides of gnostics, it is quite evident from the Bible itself, that Satan and Jehovah are merely true god's left and right hand.

You said in your OP that you are not into religion very much. But if you are curious, you should read book of Job and try to contemplate it's message about personality of Jehova.

-v



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 02:23 PM
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reply to post by cj6
 


Yes, a long time ago, before we ever had books, before we ever had words, before we ever guessed her name. God is to blame, and Satan has NO SHAME!


Enjoy the game kiddles, make reignbows choke on skkittles



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 02:40 PM
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reply to post by cj6
 


Really funny you should say this. I was chatting with two of my friends about this very same thing two weeks ago!!!

Satan is also known as Lucifer (the bringer of light), he gave us knowledge (light???). Maybe he was the good guy and the knowledge he gave us, or was trying to give us, was that God is actually a slave master or somthing to that effect, and that we are actually free to do whatever we want to do without any consequence when we die, because we just die and that's it!

The reason he was cast away is because he was about to reveal the truth, and to do that would mean a loss of God's slaves and power over the human race...

God then set about smearing Satan's name by deeming him evil and corrupting, and also a very scarey looking creature from a very scarey place, Hell.

Knowledge is power, to keep that from us would safe guard Gods grip on humanity, thus keeping us working away hard for some unknown reason.

Satan, being knowledgable cannot show himself yet as he knows to many people on earth are still in the dark, when the time is right he will appear, but as the supposed Anti-Christ, which is another of the equally knowledgable but devious God's smokescreens....

I'm not religious at all, but I lead a good life, if there is a Heaven then I will probably be going there, as someone mentioned earlier thats why there is forgiveness lol

Good thread topic buddy!

Peace



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 02:54 PM
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satan is also known as the deceiver. God is never discribed as a Deceiver. mabye we as humans have made satan seem cool. that hell will be some kind of cool metal concert.

1 im not forced to worship God

2. i have a choice between hell or eternal life......hmmm im going with ETERNAL LIFE! lol

3. the choice between hevean and hell is a CHOICE thats why its called a choice.

4. i dont deny God is to be feared! i fear God. it doesnt matter who you are you are going to fear him when you stand face to face with him at the Judgment seat of Christ

www.youtube.com...



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by smartjay
 


WOW.. .That sounds like what Government is doing to it's people. Keep them in the dark about the truth and enslave them to working hard, squeezing their dollars out of their pockets and keeping them in fear of loosing everything, but follow the government laws and you will stay afloat. But ever so close to the edge, when they can push whenever they want. What a Game.. What a racket.... It's all made up to eslave us all don't you see. We're not alone in this universe, and planet Earth is just a game board someone is having fun with... Get your laughs in, I'm ready to leave....



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by JohnnyFever
 


It's a pretty good account of what the governments across the world do to their people, and I can't recall any governments following Satan, dunno if any one on here knows of any???

I like to have a think about the various conspiracy theories, it makes good conversation when me and my mates are having a session.... If you connect the dots even some of the most far out ones fit, most of the different religions follow a very similar pattern with similar characters and similar names, even the Anunnaki theory shares a few things with them... According to that story they made us as a slave race to mine gold for them, which we still mine today and it is still valuable to alot of governments today...

The Lord works in mysterious ways...



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 04:13 PM
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I can understand why some people cling to religion. For many, it's a part of who they are - it's something they grew up with and is as much a part of what they are as what their favorite food is, or their favorite pastimes are.
What I don't understand is WHY do they stop asking questions. Why do they stop reasoning? Why is the phrase "God moves in mysterious ways" enough to make the questions stop? If we are to have so much faith....exactly what are we to have faith in...we have faith in having faith? Religion has become the very thing that, from it's inception, declared that it would free us from! It enslaves it's members with fear and insists that GOD needs to contributions of it's members to ensure it's survival. With nearly THIRTY-THOUSAND different flavors of the protestant based religion alone, how could ANYONE knowingly join the "right" one? If the differences in faith just aren't a big deal to god, then why are they big enough of a deal to humans to not associate with ones who believe slightly different? Then there's the non-christian religions which christians scoff at without either caring or realizing that this persons faith has just as much conviction in them as theirs. It takes a great deal of arrogance and a handy set of extra-large "real world" blinders to condemn others for not believing the way you do. I get a kick out of riding by churches who's signs promote a faith in god to protect and save, and I look at the lightening rods attached to their steeples and wonder exactly how far their faith really goes.
Any being that would torture another being to death is nothing more than a monster. One that would torture for an eternity - is inconceivable. Anyone who ignores the cries of their children who are suffering is either unable to help, or unfit to be a parent. I'm sure you've heard it said: "Is god willing to prevent evil - but not able?...then he is not omnipotent; Is he able, but not willing?....then he is malevolent; Is he both willing and able?...then whence cometh evil?...Is he neither able nor willing?...Then WHY call him god?"

Christian leaders do not like for too many questions to be asked. Inquisitive minds are appreciated, up to a point. If you are happy in your religion, and it prevents you from raping women, stealing gasoline, and not violating the orifices of children - then more power to you. Good for you.
Well, I'm afraid I've delved off onto another tangent from which I will not extricate myself at this point as it is dinnertime.



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