Reversing The Roles Of God and Satan

From what I have seen in this world,it would appear that somewhere along the lines,things were switched.

People believe they are wrong for being born,they hold it against others who don't agree with their self humiliating,and guilt based religions.

They have wars over these things.

This is hell.

reply to post by tauschen

has anyone brought up a middle path yet?

Originally posted by v01i0 reply to post by tauschen

 

I think that I at least tried to brought up the middle path...

Well, since you both asked, one right after the other too. I will explain the Middle Path, for those who are interested. The Middle Path is where a man/woman walks the path between good and evil, taking and using power from both, but having allegiance to neither. One a higher note, it cold be called "walking between the worlds." One foot on the Earth, the other in the Spirit World. I cannot live fully in either these days, so I live in both.

I believe I read this somewhere and to me it is perfectly clear:

The meaning of life is to live; the purpose of life is to question its existence; there is no purpose to life other than to question it.

I would like to live and see what the ending maybe; my choice is to see what no eye has seen, no ear as heard, and what no one can imagine.

I also believe that these post(s) would not be here if you were not searching for the truth of all things that be.

May everyone find what they are seeking...

reply to post by autowrench
This is the realm where I tread.

There is much animosity here.

I tread lightly,usually....

reply to post by Shdak
Not to question,but to revel in the chaos.....

This place is nothing less than utter chaos.....

Make the best of what one has to work with....

reply to post by cj6


I will find more precise information for you ( i just have to remember which book i read it in, It may have been "The Secrete Teachings of all Ages")
Basically it said - during the times when Christians went on rampaged trying to convert everyone and would kill anyone if they didn't practice Christianity, a group of people got together and said this god is evil thousands are dying in his name, lets follow Satan because he is Gods enemy and has done us no harm.

Satanism was created because of the fear of god.

First off, great thread
I've wondered about this since I was a little girl forced by my father to go to church and practice christianity. I was talking to a few friends about this very subject not too long ago, and we were sharing our experiences at church. My one friend, is very sensitive to energy, and while she was at church one night, she felt this evil presence and it caused her to have a panic attack. My other friend said she won't go to church ever again because the pastor was an evil man, and he tried to rape her. I myself, am also very sensitive to energy and spirits, and I believe I was possessed by something evil one night while attending church.
Hmm, makes you wonder. Why would the atmosphere at a church be so negative and evil when it is supposed to be hallowed ground?
I personally do not believe in the bible at all, why should I? It's just another way for the church (which was pretty much the government at the time the bible was created) to control us and tell us what's right and what is wrong.
The government and god go hand in hand. God is a deceptive prick trying to control and convert the masses, and well look at our government.
And as redhorse so eloquently stated Ba'al (Satan) was thought to be evil and required the sacrifice of children, did god not also? He asked Abraham to sacrifice his son Issac. And before Jesus came into the world, if you sinned, you had to offer god a sacrifice in order for you to be forgiven.
It sounds like somewhere along the lines of history, god and Satan's roles were reversed.

reply to post by cj6


Mind blown.

Along with this:

reply to post by Titen-Sxull

I've had discussions with Christians who tell me that God is offering to save me from Hell but they fail to realize that God also created Hell and its God's fault I'm in danger of Hell.

Never even thought of that before. Makes the whole religion sound so silly.

I've had discussions with Christians who tell me that God is offering to save me from Hell but they fail to realize that God also created Hell and its God's fault I'm in danger of Hell.



Never even thought of that before. Makes the whole religion sound so silly.

I've tried that approach with them, they just say god gave you free will..... etc. Although I saw this on a website the other day can't remember the address:

So explain me this: if you love your kid, and you see him playing on the edge of a cliff, would you let him? If God exists and really loves us, why doesn't he prevent us to harm ourselves? And also, if god is all powerful and all controlling, and almighty as the bible states, we cannot have free will because he would not be in control of us.

Originally posted by Griffo

I've had discussions with Christians who tell me that God is offering to save me from Hell but they fail to realize that God also created Hell and its God's fault I'm in danger of Hell.



Never even thought of that before. Makes the whole religion sound so silly.

I've tried that approach with them, they just say god gave you free will..... etc. Although I saw this on a website the other day can't remember the address:

So explain me this: if you love your kid, and you see him playing on the edge of a cliff, would you let him? If God exists and really loves us, why doesn't he prevent us to harm ourselves? And also, if god is all powerful and all controlling, and almighty as the bible states, we cannot have free will because he would not be in control of us.

edit on 6/12/2010 by Griffo because: (no reason given)

I will attempt to tackle this 'issue'. Firstly we need to distinguish between God’s foreknowledge and His middle knowledge. Foreknowledge is knowledge of what will be. Middle knowledge is knowledge of what would be under such-and-such circumstances.

Now although the ‘website’ refers (incorrectly) to God’s foreknowledge, what is really being talked about is God’s middle knowledge, for it speaks of God’s knowing “what the people would do” [note not what they will do]. God via His middle knowledge can survey the range of worlds feasible for Him to create and then decide which one He wants when none of them is as yet actual. But finding no worlds of universal salvation without overriding deficits, God, no doubt with some sadness, settles on this world in which some people, contrary to His will for them and His every effort to save them, spurn His grace, separate themselves irrevocably from Him, and so damn themselves forever. God can hardly be called an accessory to their crimes, since He tried to prevent their freely chosen path of self-destruction, but they would not heed Him.

reply to post by spinechilling


So what you're saying is, the bible has it all wrong and God is not all-powerful?

If I were God, I would make my existence and will known to every person on the planet beyond all reasonable doubt. I wouldn't just force everyone to have faith for thousands of years in a book full of scientific inaccuracies written by mere men who everyone knows are capable of fabrications and twisting truths to their own agenda.

I also wouldn't wait thousands of years before deciding to save the human race.

Originally posted by spinechilling

Originally posted by cj6
Satan is the way to true FREEDOM.

How can Satan be the way to true freedom when it is God who gives us freewill?

It is not "free will" if we are then told "oh by the way heres a list of things u CANT do" is that free will?? Absolutely not! Its a contradiction.

Originally posted by cj6

Originally posted by spinechilling

Originally posted by cj6
Satan is the way to true FREEDOM.

How can Satan be the way to true freedom when it is God who gives us freewill?

It is not "free will" if we are then told "oh by the way heres a list of things u CANT do" is that free will?? Absolutely not! Its a contradiction.

Absolutism is not built into the machine I'm afraid. If it were, an earthly existence would become indistinguishable from most descriptions of hell in short order. It comes down to a judgment of an thought/action.... i.e. throwing babies into fires = bad. If you choose to do that you are sinning. Adopting an orphaned child and loving it as your own = good. Not sinning. You don't get a cookie or a parade or anything, but God might even be paying attention. I doubt it, but who knows.

Free will is generally considered the philosophy espoused by the 'light', or 'God', and 'you should be able to do whatever you want' is the mantra of the 'dark' or 'Satin'. At least, that is the human understanding of it.

Long story short, we have a choice. More specifically, we have a choice to do good or evil (even though every instruction manual we have been handed are across the board bloated, convoluted, politically influenced, nearly insane documents. But I digress) The ten commandments is about as close as you get to clear cut, and the book of John stays on the mark with Jesus' message, (without buggering it up with a bunch contemporary socio-political idiocy), which pretty much amounted to ten thousand ways to say 'don't treat each other like crap.'

At the end of the day, it is my humble opinion that Terry Pratchet had the right of it, and God just put in the whole 'free will' thing as a way to kick the tires and see if the thing still held together.

Hey guys, been reading ATS for a few weeks now, finally felt compelled to sign-up and get involved!!!!

Great thread, was only discussing this concept with a friend yesterday.

For me, personally, I have a spiritual belief/faith, built out of experience for which I cannot scientifically back-up. I believe there is truth in everything, and thus to complement the yin yang equation - there is also lies and BS in everything also. My path is taking what resonates with me, and leaving the rest, forming my own truth/guidelines with which to live my life.

I have issues with organised religion. From what I have seen, organised religion is like the nice get out clause of life. You can sin all week long, but come Sunday, dress up real nice, head down to church, eat the body of christ, drink the blood of christ and all sins are thus forgiven - so you can steal, rob, cheat, murder etc for 6 days of the week, yet come Sunday, wipe the slate clean, for this week is a new and fresh.

So for all those decent people, who do unto others as they would have done to themselves, who give out self-lessly, who do not cheat, steal, murder etc - but do not go to church - all shall be sent to hell for not seeking forgiveness of their sins from the Lord?

It's easy to see why I find organised religion an hypocrisy (apologies for focusing on christian based faith there).

I have studied Taoism and some Buddhism - but follow my own spiritual path. A path of taking responsibility for ones actions, respecting the views and opinions expressed by others, understanding that everyone is only able to work with the tools they have available to them.

I believe in an intelligence within all life, intelligence by design, and whatever life sprang from, whatever intelligence got it rolling, is what I would describe as my god. It isn't an old dude with a beard, sitting on a big chair pointing the finger of judgement - more an energetic source of creation.

I heard when I was young, the only person who is perfect is GOD. It took me many years to realize this as a fallacy, for if GOD were perfect, and he created this world, this world would be perfect and we (human race) would live in perfect harmony with mother nature and all humans. A perfect world where love, friendship and unity existed. But perhaps the christians are right, perhaps god made man in the form of himself, and thus god is flawed, capable of good and evil, of love and hatred - and maybe that is the real concept of who god is... a man made creation, designed to enslave the minds and bodies of those who choose not to scratch beneath the surface of reality, but take as gospel, a book, decided upon, by a committee hundreds of years ago.

Cheers!

Maybe, the Garden of Eden was a prison, robbing Adam and Eve of free will. Lucifer tried to 'enlighten' them by giving them the fruit of the tree of knowledge. Yahweh wants us imprisoned to do his will, or he'll smite you. Lucifer wants you to enjoy yourself, and enlighten yourself.

It's not too far of a stretch.

reply to post by cj6


The Gnostics believed this and the good, kind Catholics killed them for it.

Don't be fooled by people who claim that you can "choose" "HIM" when they are looking to ram "him" whoever "he" is down your throat with fear.

Jehova (which means "I am that I am" which is a clever non-name) seems to be a Semitic god called ISH-KUR who presided over lightning on a mountaintop. Through violence, trickery, and lack of research his cultus has spread over the whole planet.

If you want to know who he truly is, read the old testament and see for yourself. He is not the creator of the universe.

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by jheated5

 

Finally someone who has caught on! The only the thing that is consider pure is the Eternal Torah. The Bible and Quran to me are lies.

The Torah is also a lie, concocted from earlier texts, which are themselves lies concocted from earlier texts.

If you go far enough back in time, you start to see some hints of truth. Of course, go over the mountain to India and you will get much purer holy texts, which preserve their actual ancient forms.

The Torah is just warmed-over Babylonian magic, which itself is just a pale imitation of the Sumerian original.

God and Satan reversing roles eh?? Interesting...

Here is my point of view for what it is worth.

God is the Creator of everything. Everything was created from God. Where ever your eyes rest, what ever sound reaches your ear, the wind on your skin, the scent in the air, everything is part of the WHOLE which is God.

It is from God that Man was created. Man is unique among the life forms on this planet in that he has a mind capable of delving deeper into the mysteries of this existence. We are autonomous beings each having free will to explore and experience this creation how we see fit. As we are maladapted to surviving here on our own, we have a natural desire to aid and assist one another. This is our role here, it is how we are designed. Thus, it is God's will through logical deduction and sound reasoning that we are to love one another.

Satan is a powerful force of our own free will. It is the force within us that causes us to judge this existence and those around us. It tempts us to elevate ourselves over others. It seduces us to treat each other harshly. It drives us mad with the urge to destroy. It grows strong from our pain and inadequacies. It thrives on conflict and turmoil. It feeds the ego and makes us self centered and uncaring about those we share this existence with. Satan rules our hearts, so many of our hearts in this very day and age. Look around, do I lie?

God, Satan, they are merely words which represent concepts in our mind. Reversing the words does not change the outcome of the concepts that rule our life. If you see with open eyes the beauty of this world, the glorious precision of it's making, and have a love for it and your fellow man, calling it Satan will not change this. If you are bitter, angry, and miserable, blind to the beauty all around you. If the pain you have endured through the mistreatments from others has lead you to regard your fellow man as savages and beasts not worthy of your regard, then call this awareness God if it so pleases you. Your condition will remain the same.

As for me, Satan has been defeated in my house and I walk in the glory of the heaven of the creation of God. Call it Nirvana, Shangrila, Avalon, Sumerland or what you will. This existence is infinitely more beautiful than I am worthy to have received, and more so because of the many Brothers and Sisters I have to share it with.

Here's hoping you drive Satan from your Kingdom, and join me soon.

God created Man, Man created Satan by judging.

Judge not, love all, be at peace.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by dementedtheclown


HA HA HA... Anyways, you are blind. Do you know what the name Lucifer even means? It means “the Shining One.” It also means “Light-bringer,” or “Son of the Morning.” What does jehova mean? Iam that Iam. WOW thats so informing dont you think.

Your god demands that we believe everything that he tells us, and that we do everything that he says without questioning: Baph-o-met wouldn't hurt a fly. “Destroy a tribe including the women, children and animals down to last one? (Joshua 6:21). No problem. Murder 5 kingdoms of people and keep 32,000 virgins girls “for yourselves?” (Numbers 31:7-35) Why of course. Uh…wait a minute, this doesn’t seem very moral or very nice.” “SILENCE FOOL. HOW DARE YOU QUESTION ME. I AM GOD, ALL-KNOWING, INFALLIBLE, UNQUESTIONABLE, UN-UNDERSTANDABLE AND YOU MUST OBEY ME WITHOUT HESITATION. ACCEPT WHAT I SAY ON FAITH. BURN THOSE WHO DARE QUESTION MY WORD. DESTROY THEIR BOOKS. SHUT DOWN THEIR SCHOOLS. TELL THEM THAT DISOBEDIENCE MEANS THAT THEY WILL BURN FOREVER AND EVER, IN UNIMAGINABLE AGONY FOR ALL ETERNITY, AND REMEMBER THAT YOU WILL SUFFER THE SAME FATE UNLESS YOU GO OUT AND TELL THEM THIS. DON’T YOU DARE APPLY THE PART OF THE BIBLE WHERE IT SAYS “BY THEIR FRUITS SHALL YOU KNOW THEM” TO MY FRUITS AND OH, YEAH, TELL YOUR CHILDREN HOW MUCH I REALLY LOVE YOU ALL.” “Yes Sir, God Sir, whatever you say. See, here I am burning their books, pulling out their fingernails, torturing them for questioning Church dogma, banning the use of anesthetic in child-bearing (since the pain is their just punishment for the single sin of their long-dead ancestors, Adam and Eve), selling them into slavery, raping their wives, dashing their children against rocks…what did that child do to deserve this? Help! I thought an improper thought! Help me to blind my mind God, help me to not see what my reason tells me. Let me repress thoughts of natural sexual desire, doubts about you and your orders, feelings of tolerance or putting myself in my neighbor’s shoes. Let me follow no morality but that which you say is moral.” Now we ask you, who represents the greater evil?