More evangelists appointed to Lords, Christians desperate to force their delusion upon my children

reply to post by Equinox99

See now you are just being condescending. You are trying to come off as superior and trying to make any Christian inferior to you in every way.

No I'm not, I have close friends that are xtians matey boy I certainly don't consider myself to be superior to anyone. However, it must be said that I've yet to talk to a christian that doesn't think they are superior to an atheist or agnostic, after all we are not going to heaven re we ?

I hate to break it to you but it seems as though you made up your child's mind, not the other way around.

If this is true then by the same reasoning every christian child had their mind made up for them, touche' they can always change their minds when their all grown up and decide to develop the faculty of reason and critical thinking skills

I don't understand why you would think that because the OId Testament said to do such things that we have to do it.

Because the bibles say so simple as that, I've yet to read a bible that says yawhe changed his mind

You fail to realize that we must follow society as well.

.

No you don't you have free will, did you miss the bit about "follow me?"

The book was written 2,000 years ago for their laws and times

And who gave them their laws exactly ? If the book is no longer valid then don't use it ?

Where in the book does yahwhe/jesus say "These rules are for x period and will no longer apply on x date" ?

But it doesn't mean much of the morals taught in the Bible is false. It doesn't mean that we will stone our wives for adultery, or our sons for not listening to us.

Whether or not you decide to observe the laws laid out by yahweh/jesus is up to you my friend, how you justify it to yourself is also up to you .

Ha ha remember the good old days when we could beat a queer to death ha ha so glad god changed his mind about that one ha ha.

You have it in your head that we are some murdering lunatics

Er um no, but according to your instruction manual for life the creature that allegedly created you in its' image most definitely is, so I'm rightly wary of anyone professing to aspire to it/him

I am a politician in the UK, and a member of a party that supports a secular state. A secular state is a state that has no religious involvement in decision making processes relating to public policy.

No religion is superior to any other, therefore no religion should have undue privilege in state policy. Therefore, it shouldn't be involved at all.

There should be an age of consent when it comes to religion - children should not be exposed to such a dangerous and divisive lifestyle practiced by adults until they are adults themselves.

Therefore, religion in schools is a dangerous, paedophilia inducing concept that should be banned. Parents who wish to induct their children into religion should be punished for comitting child abuse. Wayward proselytisers should be warned.

My tuppence worth.

Rev.

reply to post by The Revenant


However, the goal of a republic is to insure that everyone has an equal voice. Like it or not, the rligious make up a large proportion of the population and as such should have a voice in the government. By limiting who can and cannot serve you are destroying the very government you seek to preserve.

Oooh, this one's got me going...

I am an aetheist, therefore do not believe in god, but that's not to say that I deny any existence. I have no problem whatsoever with anybody believing in any religion they so choose, or was chosen for them in many cases. What annoys me to the point of madness is when I am told that I am wrong and because of my beliefs, or lack of them, when I die I shall have a very, very unpleasant experience.

Aetheists do not in any way attempt to convert christians (or any other religions) into believing what they believe. But in my experience, every other religion I have ever heard of, send people onto our streets, into our schools, and even to knock on our doors, to convince us that what we believe is wrong and we should join the masses in worshipping 'insert religious diety here'. It's just downright wrong.

Last Christmas eve I was at work and helped a stranded lady on my way home by giving her a lift as we were going in the same direction. It was snowing and the roads were bad so a normal 35 minute journey took an hour. I thought I was doing a good deed (don't need no god to make me a good person!) but 5 mins into the journey she told me she was a 'born-again-christian' and told me the story of how she found god. I thought it was nice, she seemed a nice lady and I was happy that she had something in her life that brought her great joy, obviously. Until she tried to convert me. I was told that I was a sinner by not believing in god, that after I dropped her off I might be involved in a terrible car accident and that if I didn't convert before we got to her destination, I would go straight to hell and spend eternity attempting to repent for my sins of drinking, smoking and scarring my body by way of my tattoos. I told her that I didn't believe and wasn't ready to either. She wanted me to stop the car so that we could say a prayer together. I was scared! I'm pretty sure she was slightly mad. When I brought up evolution, which I strongly believe in, she told me it was all a big conspiracy to decry the religious, all lies. She used a jar of jam as an example - when you pick fruit and make it into a jam, it's dead, if you leave that jar of jam, it becomes mouldy and rots, how is that evolution? WTF?! How could anybody with an ounce of intelligence use that kind of example as a reasonable argument? By the time I dropped her off, I was seriously mind-screwed. I went home, drank copious amounts of alcohol and got myself as pissed as a fart to block out the trauma!

Can anybody explain to me how putting that kind of fear and confusion into my head is christian-like? And at Christmas?! If christians use fear and hatred to brainwash and 'recruit' people into their religion, how can they be living by the word of god?

I strongly believe that we can still be good, decent people, without living by and to the word of a group of people who comply with a set of rules written by only knows who about a someone that may never have existed?

Answers on a postcard would be greatly apreciated. I'm not saying that you're wrong by believing in a god, I'm saying that you're wrong for telling me that I have to change my beliefs to fit in with yours...

I am taking a lot of interest in radical Muslims, sites like rantburg, atlas shrugs, and news with views, plus others I cannot remember at the moment, give the latest news from around the world, not seen on MSN, quite interesting, I really am starting to worry now about what the radical Muslims are up to, especially reading about a young woman's brother shooting her dead, in the street, in Amsterdam, an 'honour killing' if I read of a Christian doing that, I'll let you know.

Originally posted by NonKonphormist
reply to post by Y2KJMan

 

Any person that believes in imaginary people should not be in a position of power.

You think Christians would disagree with you on this? Umm... they would agree, obviously. I'm sure many people such as myself view atheism as an imaginary concept. Yet would I be so arrogant then to say an atheist should be ruled out from a "position of power" just because of their strange religious belief? No. Perhaps you should learn the same level of tolerance that Jesus had... who was not afraid to talk to poor people, and other people looked down on like thieves, hookers, etc.

Originally posted by pikestaff
I am taking a lot of interest in radical Muslims, sites like rantburg, atlas shrugs, and news with views, plus others I cannot remember at the moment, give the latest news from around the world, not seen on MSN, quite interesting, I really am starting to worry now about what the radical Muslims are up to, especially reading about a young woman's brother shooting her dead, in the street, in Amsterdam, an 'honour killing' if I read of a Christian doing that, I'll let you know.

Christians do commit what amounts to Honor Killings in countries like Kenya and Uganda...here's a particularly graphic (warning) video from Kenya: www.liveleak.com...

reply to post by The Djin


Haha, great title for a thread. Christianity is one of the most damaging ubiquitous religions. George W. Bush was a born again Christian.

Originally posted by The Djin

Originally posted by digby888
i am sorry for your kids that they will have your beliefs forced

down there throat and will not be aloud to think for

themselfs

Don't be so bloody ignorant, not believing something does not imply a belief system.

Agnostics do not believe in God. But they don't disbelieve in God.

Atheists believe THERE IS NO GOD. Therefore atheism is a belief system. If you think atheism is believing there may be a God and there may not... then what is agnosticism?

Atheism is a religious belief.

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by The Revenant

 

However, the goal of a republic is to insure that everyone has an equal voice. Like it or not, the rligious make up a large proportion of the population and as such should have a voice in the government. By limiting who can and cannot serve you are destroying the very government you seek to preserve.

You are quite right in your motion that in a true democracy, everyone has an equal voice. However, religion seeks to add a voice that is not quantifiable, to influence debate and the wishes of the people by deception, at the whim of the religious minority - THIS is not democratic.

I do not suggest that religious people should be barred from participating in government and the formation of policy. However they should be made to leave their religious convictions at the town hall door. It is when religious practice is allowed to influence decisions within government, that we see the greatest inequities perpetrated.

Rev.

Originally posted by The Djin
reply to post by ReginaAdonnaAaron

 

If you're encouraging them to think for themselves, then why not allow them to learn about God and Christ our Savior?

Indeed they have, the source of the yahwhe/jesus character is the bibles my kids can read them whenever they wish and have read a little of them.

Both my kids find the yawhe/jesus character quite disgusting interestingly enough .

It's not interesting at all or the least bit unexpected.

And just for the record, most enlightened Christians do not worship a bearded man in the sky, or anything outside of themselves. Jesus is simply a model of the very best part fo who we really are.

Too bad your children won't even begin to comprehend that in this lifetime..

Originally posted by civilchallenger
Agnostics do not believe in God. But they don't disbelieve in God.

Atheists believe THERE IS NO GOD. Therefore atheism is a belief system. If you think atheism is believing there may be a God and there may not... then what is agnosticism?

Atheism is a religious belief.

Sorry, but's that just moronic. And I'm sure you're not a moron - so let me guide you to a correct view on this.

A-Theism, is a lack of THEIST conviction. It has nothing to do with 'belief'.

Theists hold the conviction that there are unseen powers in the world, and have constructed systems of 'belief' around this conviction.

A-Theists simply cannot see any unseen powers, quite logically, as they don't have any evidence to hold this conviction. Therefore, atheists cannot participate in belief if they do not hold any convictions that allow belief systems to form.

Your argument is easy to pick apart, as it is a particularly poor argument used by lesser educated theists to try and defame atheists. Don't be stupid.

Rev.

reply to post by Y2KJMan


Dude - believing in something is one thing. To be harassed and told you'll be sent to hell is SOMETHING ELSE.

The OP is clearly talking about FORCING religion - not so much just believing in it.

Believe what you want! Just keep it to your damn selves!!! With all due respect!

reply to post by The Revenant


The only thing I'd say is that atheists must take reality itself and their own existence, entirely for granted, while adopting a materialist monist (matter is primary) POV, and a WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) understanding of reality as it appears to present itself to the five senses, and that is a very limited and narrow POV imho.

For me, the creation of the world is a triumph of persuasion over force.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Spoken like a student of philosophy. I completely agree - however, taking a rational and pragmatic approach to the issue you discuss, surely to make the best of WYSIWYG, you need to MTBOFWYH? (Make the best of what you have) without worrying about what might happen, or what you haven't got or don't perceive?

Touche.

Rev.

Originally posted by The Revenant
A-Theism, is a lack of THEIST conviction. It has nothing to do with 'belief'.
Rev.

No, agnosticism is lack of theist conviction. Atheism is the belief God does not exist. I'm sorry you are unfamiliar with the dictionary:
a·the·ist
   /ˈeɪθiɪst/ Show Spelled[ey-thee-ist]
–noun
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.
Source: www.dictionary.com...

Atheism is a belief that pertains to religion. Beliefs that pertain to religion are "religious beliefs". If you don't believe God does NOT exist you are not an atheist. Hopefully you have what it takes to admit you are wrong after reading the dictionary.

Originally posted by The Djin

Originally posted by Y2KJMan
Obviously I know what your opinion on matters are... why is it a crime for them to have their own opinions also? If there were no christians and only atheists (just an example) would christians respond the way you did? So isnt a mix of everything the best representation for us?

It's not a simple case of just having an opinion they're intent on forcing their beliefs upon me.

How many of these types of people in these positions do you think, will it take before bronze age blasphemy laws are re introduced or that homosexuals are once again treated as the dysfunctional wicked of society ?

Please bear in mind that these people hand out books to children that give clear instructions on how to beat your slave and that disobedient children should be stoned to death !!!

Live in a society operating with christian values and morals ?

Over my cold dead body

I am not denying what you are saying is true, but please show proof as to how they are trying to force their beliefs upon you. The simple fact that they believe something does not mean that they are trying to control you or force it down your throat.

reply to post by The Revenant


Part of the gift of free will (which isn't located in 3D time-space btw), is that you are free to imprison yourself within a very small and very constrained subjective isolation chamber of your own making (perception is reality), while the immense ocean of truth and liberation, extends itself, unexplored, on the other side of your cell door.

Originally posted by The Djin
reply to post by Equinox99

 

See now you are just being condescending. You are trying to come off as superior and trying to make any Christian inferior to you in every way.

No I'm not, I have close friends that are xtians matey boy I certainly don't consider myself to be superior to anyone. However, it must be said that I've yet to talk to a christian that doesn't think they are superior to an atheist or agnostic, after all we are not going to heaven re we ?

I hate to break it to you but it seems as though you made up your child's mind, not the other way around.

If this is true then by the same reasoning every christian child had their mind made up for them, touche' they can always change their minds when their all grown up and decide to develop the faculty of reason and critical thinking skills

I don't understand why you would think that because the OId Testament said to do such things that we have to do it.

Because the bibles say so simple as that, I've yet to read a bible that says yawhe changed his mind

You fail to realize that we must follow society as well.

.

No you don't you have free will, did you miss the bit about "follow me?"

The book was written 2,000 years ago for their laws and times

And who gave them their laws exactly ? If the book is no longer valid then don't use it ?

Where in the book does yahwhe/jesus say "These rules are for x period and will no longer apply on x date" ?

But it doesn't mean much of the morals taught in the Bible is false. It doesn't mean that we will stone our wives for adultery, or our sons for not listening to us.

Whether or not you decide to observe the laws laid out by yahweh/jesus is up to you my friend, how you justify it to yourself is also up to you .

Ha ha remember the good old days when we could beat a queer to death ha ha so glad god changed his mind about that one ha ha.

You have it in your head that we are some murdering lunatics

Er um no, but according to your instruction manual for life the creature that allegedly created you in its' image most definitely is, so I'm rightly wary of anyone professing to aspire to it/him

Then you have not read the bible. According to the new testament when Jesus died on the cross the covenant of the Old Testament was broken. This is demonstrated in the vision that Paul was given of the sheet lifting. I hate to say it as I thought your thread topic seemed interesting, but you are just attacking what you don't understand.

reply to post by civilchallenger


Ok maybe I was wrong in my post in response to you, about one thing in particular, but not what you might think - i'll let you figure that one out.

You've used a typical lesser educated theist argument and changed the word - you've used atheist instead of atheISM. Get it right my good putz.

I will admit when I'm wrong - but I'm not wrong about this - you can show me any internet dictionary you like, manipulated by whichever method you fancy, you're wrong, and you know it.

Rev.