Sharia lessons for pupils aged six: BBC uncovers weekend schools that teach pupils how to hack off t

Originally posted by Steam


Have you ever heard of hate speech??

In law, hate speech is any speech, gesture or conduct, writing, or display which is forbidden because it may incite violence or prejudicial action against or by a protected individual or group, or because it disparages or intimidates a protected individual or group. The law may identify a protected individual or a protected group by race, gender, ethnicity, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, or other characteristic.

Hate speech

Hate speech is illegal and you can be charged with it under criminal or civil law. So yes, free speech does have a certain limit, you can't go into a crowded theater and cry "fire!!" and you also can't advocate violence or hate towards a specific group.

I know freedom of speech is being killed by people such as you, you want UK to follow Sharia law

Next thing, ban music, because you can hate using music also, not to mention poetry, what about bundles of books, or maybe the Internet, hey, let's ban the internet because some people do not have the ability to counter speech with speech.



I know Europe has such laws, but that doesn't mean I agree with them.

Does that mean people should break these laws? No, not at all, no one should break laws which they have signed to follow.

They should use the system to change the law, and bring freedom of speech back.

Originally posted by oozyism

Originally posted by Steam


Again with the poor physics analogy.

I think you should drop this since you are starting to make a fool of yourself.

Like I said earlier, it is illogical for anyone to come to your house and say you can't teach your kids physics since it could potentially lead to millions of deaths. Again, science is neither good or bad, it doesn't teach you to harm anyone.

It isn't about science, it is about belief, people have different beliefs, there are people in the world who do not even use technology, they live in America somewhere/

So think about it, if you have the right to tell others what to teach or not, shouldn't they also have the same right?

What I'm trying to say is, that people can have what ever belief they want, they can have the belief that physics is bad because it can cause millions of deaths, you can't even argue against that, because it is a belief.

edit on 22-11-2010 by oozyism because: (no reason given)

Of course, you can't force people to change their beliefs since that is what goes on inside their heads.

Now, should you be allowed to spread your "beliefs" even if it advocates violence or hate towards a specific group of people, no, you shouldn't be allowed to do such a thing and that is why we have hate speech laws.

Originally posted by oozyism

Originally posted by Steam


Have you ever heard of hate speech??

In law, hate speech is any speech, gesture or conduct, writing, or display which is forbidden because it may incite violence or prejudicial action against or by a protected individual or group, or because it disparages or intimidates a protected individual or group. The law may identify a protected individual or a protected group by race, gender, ethnicity, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, or other characteristic.

Hate speech

Hate speech is illegal and you can be charged with it under criminal or civil law. So yes, free speech does have a certain limit, you can't go into a crowded theater and cry "fire!!" and you also can't advocate violence or hate towards a specific group.

I know freedom of speech is being killed by people such as you, you want UK to follow Sharia law

Next thing, ban music, because you can hate using music also, not to mention poetry, what about bundles of books, or maybe the Internet, hey, let's ban the internet because some people do not have the ability to counter speech with speech.

I know Europe has such laws, but that doesn't mean I agree with them.

Does that mean people should break these laws? No, not at all, no one should break laws which they have signed to follow.

They should use the system to change the law, and bring freedom of speech back.

I am sorry, but where exactly did I say I wanted Sharia law. I am the last person who wants Sharia law in ANY western country.

It seems to me that you are now losing this argument since I provided you with facts that refute your claims.

This is evident since now you have decided to lash out at me with false accusations.


p.s. Oh and by the way, I really can't take you seriously when your avatar states that you should "stop racism against Islam!" since Islam is a race alright

Originally posted by oozyism

Originally posted by felonius


When what you teach your kids effects MY life and culture in MY part of the world, I have plenty to say.

I wouldn't consider going to Saudi and telling them I think they are a bunch of backwards savages that treat women like hell.

Honor killings? Killing a woman because SHE was raped? Cutting the hand of a child off because they were hungry and took a loaf of bread?

As much as it disgusts me, that is THEIR house and their rules. When you come into MY house and set up a dangerous dynamic, we start to have an issue.

I've mentioned before that I've little use for the church (especially in the early days!). While its still screwed up, at least they dont burn people for heresy any longer. Stronger minds prevailed. Things changed. Yes, blood was required to do so.

The physics / A bomb thing? Really? You can do better than that oozy. come on dude. I've shown you respect, please return in kind.

So you are suggesting you have more rights than Muslims, hence you can tell British Muslims how to live, but they can't tell you>?

Last I checked, British Muslims have the same citizenship as you, and they have the same rights as you.

A British parent will argue again: Who are you to tell me what to teach my kids.

The physics thing just shows that different people have different realities, no two people have the same exact belief system, that literally means no two people.

The above being said, if you are gonna tell them what to teach & what not to teach their kids, can't they tell you is well? I mean force, because you are suggesting that those parents should be forced to not teach their kids these laws.

One day a person will come and force you to not teach your kids physics because that person doesn't believe physics is good, or good for society, or good for anyone in that sense, and can cause millions of deaths.

You have totally bypassed my statement about your culture being antithetical to ours. You wanna be a sufi muslim? Rock on dude. You wanna be wahabist? We have a problem.

If you guys can step to the level of the Sufi's, the world in your homelands will FINALLY have some sanity.

One of my favorite books is by Idreas Shaw, the Teachings of the Mullah Nas'rudin (a fictional character). The wisdom is profound.

Remember, all great Truths are Universal.

Give a kid a book on "the Mullah". Dont give them a sword. If you give a sword, expect another sword to meet it.

BTW, I'm not british. I'm Texas Volksdeutsch.

Originally posted by Steam



Of course, you can't force people to change their beliefs since that is what goes on inside their heads.

Now, should you be allowed to spread your "beliefs" even if it advocates violence or hate towards a specific group of people, no, you shouldn't be allowed to do such a thing and that is why we have hate speech laws.

Yeah

Duuuhhh!!

You should be allowed.

If someone is spreading hate against me, I will go and debate him, and defend my name.

Originally posted by Steam



I am sorry, but where exactly did I say I wanted Sharia law. I am the last person who wants Sharia law in ANY western country.

It seems to me that you are now losing this argument since I provided you with facts that refute your claims.

This is evident since now you have decided to lash out at me with false accusations.


p.s. Oh and by the way, I really can't take you seriously when your avatar states that you should "stop racism against Islam!" since Islam is a race alright

edit on 22-11-2010 by Steam because: (no reason given)

You want freedom of speech banned, to me that is one step closer to Sharia law

Second line.

Originally posted by felonius


You have totally bypassed my statement about your culture being antithetical to ours. You wanna be a sufi muslim? Rock on dude. You wanna be wahabist? We have a problem.

If you guys can step to the level of the Sufi's, the world in your homelands will FINALLY have some sanity.

One of my favorite books is by Idreas Shaw, the Teachings of the Mullah Nas'rudin (a fictional character). The wisdom is profound.

Remember, all great Truths are Universal.

Give a kid a book on "the Mullah". Dont give them a sword. If you give a sword, expect another sword to meet it.

BTW, I'm not british. I'm Texas Volksdeutsch.

I did address your concern, infact I clearly stated that you have no more rights than Muslims.

Since you say you are from Texas, let's talk about Texas.

Do you think you have more rights than Muslim Americans?

Do you think Muslim Americans are not Americans, or that they have no say in how the country should be shaped, and how the future of the country should look like?

Originally posted by oozyism

Originally posted by Steam



I am sorry, but where exactly did I say I wanted Sharia law. I am the last person who wants Sharia law in ANY western country.

It seems to me that you are now losing this argument since I provided you with facts that refute your claims.

This is evident since now you have decided to lash out at me with false accusations.


p.s. Oh and by the way, I really can't take you seriously when your avatar states that you should "stop racism against Islam!" since Islam is a race alright

edit on 22-11-2010 by Steam because: (no reason given)

You want freedom of speech banned, to me that is one step closer to Sharia law

Second line.

So you think it is okay to spread hate and advocate the killings of groups that you don't like or you find inferior?

You think you should be allowed to yell "fire!" or "bomb!" in a crowded theater, cause mass panic, cause injuries, or worst case even death and not be held legally responsible for any of this?

Here are some of the stories of the Mullah.

www.sysindia.com...

en.wikibooks.org...

Wouldnt this be preferable to teach young muslim kids? Heck, why not teach all kids this?

reply to post by oozyism


If I am a round person living in a square world. Everyone in this area is square. What right do I have to try to make a square rounded?

A round person should live in a round place.

As I have said previously, your culture (as it stands) is not compatible. If you want to live here, you will have to adapt, we WILL NOT adapt to you. If you do not like the west, you are welcome to go where you are more "at home".

Dont like thorns? Get off of the rose bush.

Those like you living in the west are up to one of two things.

1. Subversive conversion from within.
2. Fear of your own culture so you can be more "liberal" than you would be allowed "at home".

Its late oozy. Its been interesting speaking with you. May you be visited by the "Mad Mullah Nas'rudin" in your dreams .

I'll leave you with one of his stories.

THE NATURE OF THE UNSEEN.

It seems that the Master of Mirth and Chief of the Dervishes, Nasrudin, was once called to pontificate on the 'Nature of Allah' in the local mosque. Present were the many Imams and Doctors of the Islamic Law. Out of courtesy and because Nasrudin could not be counted on saying anything worthwhile, these illustrious guests explained and inspired the audience with their eloquence and wisdom.
Finally it was Nasrudin's turn to explain 'the Nature of Allah'.

"Allah ...", started Nasrudin impressively "is ..."

Nasrudin removed and held up an ovoid mauve vegetable from the folds of his turban, " ... an aubergine."

There was uproar at this blasphemy. When order was finally established, Nasrudin was reluctantly asked to explain his words.

"I conclude that everyone has spoken of what they do not know or have not seen. We can all see this aubergine. Is there anyone who can deny that Allah is manifest in all things?"

Nobody could.

"Very well," said Nasrudin, "Allah is an aubergine."

I'd like to say that I am angry. I'd like to say that I feel furious, filled with self-righteous rage over the obvious manipulation of children. But all I feel is sadness. And very, very old. I have truly lost faith in humanity, obsessed with power and control as they are. So many lives, so many perfectly good thoughts, burned to a crisp.

I don't believe that the human race will end without a fight. As a matter of fact, I'd say that if the human race were to continue unchecked, total dominance would easily become an unnoticed norm. Eventually, people will discover that they *all* possess a very, very unpleasant side, regardless of religion, philosophy, ideology, etcetera. And, eventually, not even the boundaries of gravity and time will hold them back for long.

reply to post by Yissachar1


The society really has to go on an exposure and riducle number to change this freakishness. Muslims have to become embarassed by this kind of cave man cruelity and mentality. Hating and ridiculting the chopping off hands and feet is not the same as hating Islamic people.

Islam has to read the Koran in a symbolic nature and as a historical desert culture not mean to be taken litterally and acted out in modern society. When they do act on it in Western countries, the punishment for such crimes have to be severe and the culture of the courties must be overtly appauled and ridicule it to deter others. Political correctness is enabling and insane.

Originally posted by wikileaked
reply to post by Yissachar1

 

Sorry my friend but i am not scared of my own shadow like you, i grew up in North London and not a nice part so i am sure if i can walk through Drummond street and not get attacked, i can walk through brixton in south London and i Go to Hackney and Brick Lane to get my salt beef bagel, "which are great" and not get attacked i'm sure i would not have a problen going to the Four Green Flag awarded Victoria Park in little old Tipton.

you need to toughen up,

How many wars you fought?

Me?

Quite a few actually

Not scared of anything including death.. Made a thread about that once, check it out

Please Read This

I'm greatly concerned with much of the comments posted here. There are approximately 1 billion Muslims in the world. So you need to ask yourselves some question: Do you believe that all 1 billion Muslims are evil? Do you think all Iranians are evil?

Lets go even further - If you lived in 1942, would you believe that all Germans were evil Nazis? They allowed Hitler to rule them. Why weren't all Germans tried and executed at the end of World War 2?

With regard to the German question, would it be correct to say that we didn't kill every German because he realized that many had no choice but to go along with those in power, those with the guns and the organization. Would it be correct to say that many were fooled, tricked, and lied to. Would be correct that some, who themselves did no wrong, were too cowardly to intervene? Would it be correct that some of those who did intervene, by concealing Jews, did so in silence to protect themselves and their families?

This thread goes dangerously close to painting all Muslims as evil and brainwashed to kill us. The main problem is that almost every dictator in the Middle East came to power because we intervened thinking that we knew best. The UK and US overthrew a democratically elected government in the Iran in 1953, setting into motion a change of events that would create the Iran we know today.

I could sit here and write a hundred pages documenting the various interventions that the Western powers have made over the years in the middle east for the purpose of securing resources, trade routes, installing pro-western leaders, etc. These acts would only nurture distrust and hatred, and the feeling became mutual. They could only serve to fuel a rebellion against anyone who preached moderation and perceived Western ideals because many rightly concluded that they were under attack by some outside force. This moment of vulnerability opened the flood gates to radical Islam.

All I ask is that people here reconsider their blanket fear and hatred of anyone Muslim. The Western nations have aspired to destroy slavery, racism, sexism, and religious intolerance - but there was a time when these ideas dominated our culture and to this day they have not been completely wiped out. Christianity, like all religions, has at times been exploited by evil men to justify their evil acts. All faiths have been exploited at some point and still are.

All that I ask is that for one moment you imagine a world in which those who know what is right have the courage and the manpower to take control. If you believe that most human beings are inherently good, then this future can't be seen as merely a possibility but rather as an inevitable certainty.

You can read this story as a justification of the destruction of a billion people OR you can see it as an opportunity to educate. You can't spread your ideals through the barrel of a gun but you can use your words to change the world for the better.

Originally posted by Steam


So you think it is okay to spread hate and advocate the killings of groups that you don't like or you find inferior?

I already said yes, yes, yes!!!

You think you should be allowed to yell "fire!" or "bomb!" in a crowded theater, cause mass panic, cause injuries, or worst case even death and not be held legally responsible for any of this?

Yes!!

People should listen to authorized people regarding such threats..

reply to post by felonius


So you are saying Muslims have less rights than you, that they do not have a right to shape the future of America, they should stay quiet and keep their ideas to themselves??

That is like Saudi Arabia, that is how they treat Christians and Jews, they don't want them to spread their belief because Saudi Arabian authorities believe it is not compatible with Islamic law.

Everything you want seems to lead towards Sharia law, the some thing you think you are trying to block.

Think carefully, you might regret the choices you make later on.

Ozzy, I'm truly glad I don't single handily reserve the right to judge people, because you'd of been deemed a terrorist and executed long ago in my eyes.

You display nothing but the sheer lack of respect and common good that is displayed even in mankind's simplest form, you disgust me beyond belief.

You have such a backwards thought pattern that it amazes me your parents weren't in fact siblings.

I don't know how anyone could put up with your insane backwards logic, perhaps that's why you're all alone.

Ozzy, I'm truly glad I don't single handily reserve the right to judge people, because you'd of been deemed a terrorist and executed long ago in my eyes.

You display nothing but the sheer lack of respect and common good that is displayed even in mankind's simplest form, you disgust me beyond belief.

You have such a backwards thought pattern that it amazes me your parents weren't in fact siblings.

I don't know how anyone could put up with your insane backwards logic, perhaps that's why you're all alone.
edit on 23-11-2010 by Gakus because: (no reason given)

Your lack of ability to contribute to this thread is astounding

Why not lay facts on the ground, rather than direct attacks

Originally posted by oozyism

Originally posted by Gakus
Ozzy, I'm truly glad I don't single handily reserve the right to judge people, because you'd of been deemed a terrorist and executed long ago in my eyes.

You display nothing but the sheer lack of respect and common good that is displayed even in mankind's simplest form, you disgust me beyond belief.

You have such a backwards thought pattern that it amazes me your parents weren't in fact siblings.

I don't know how anyone could put up with your insane backwards logic, perhaps that's why you're all alone.

edit on 23-11-2010 by Gakus because: (no reason given)

Are you threatening me

Just because you can't defend your belief doesn't mean you should get emotional honey.

I'm not threatening you in the least, merely stating a fact.

You are beyond ignorant, and I honestly don't care anymore if I'm banned for saying it.

Fact of the matter is, everyone here feels the same way.

Originally posted by Gakus


Are you threatening me

Just because you can't defend your belief doesn't mean you should get emotional honey.

I'm not threatening you in the least, merely stating a fact.

You are beyond ignorant, and I honestly don't care anymore if I'm banned for saying it.

Fact of the matter is, everyone here feels the same way.

Why do they feel the same?

What did I do?

You want to kill me because I defend freedom of speech