Pick Your 2 Most Glaring Points of Questions For 9/11?

Originally posted by Fabless
reply to post by GoodOlDave

 

There seems to be quite a bit of controversy re NORAD, defense
exercises running that almost matched the actual events, planes
being sent conveniently away, etc. Just things I've read.

The only reason the "NORAD exercised almost matched the actual events" is due to a deliberate misrepresentation on the part of the truthers to sucker people into believing these conspiracy stories. The exercises were to intercept hypothetical bombers from the former Soviet Union coming in from the Atlantic.

The point I was making - and I just don't understand yours - is
that nobody sends F-15's to blow up passenger jets. Haven't yet
and never will. Not an option, they'd be lynched.

It is an established fact that F-15s were scrambled from Otis Air Force Base in Massachussets and F-16s were scrambled out of Langley air force base in Virginia, and shoot down orders were issued by Bush, on 9/11. All of this was already covered by the 9/11 commission report years ago so whether you yourself wish to accept the fact or not is thoroughly irrelevent to anyone else.

However, do you really believe that any agency with a credible
bit of intel regarding terrorist hijacks would keep it to their
chests because of jealousy? No way. They'd be telling everyone
they could to shift the responsibility, as people do.

...and now you're getting closer to the real conspiracy. Someone should have mentioned to the TSA the critical information that Mohammed Atta was chummy with Al Qaida before he boarded the plane, but they didn't. When asked why, noone knows anything about anything.

Doesn't this even remotely make you concerned?

C'mon there must be something else! Tell us you don't believe
two skyscrapers need to be scraped off your shoes a few hours
after burning kerosene is thrown at them.

I do not go by the drivel Alex Jones and Dylan Avery are putting out. I am going by actual eyewitness accounts of the people who were there, such as NYPD helicopter pilots reporting the support beams in the WTC were glowing red from the fires and looked liek they were going to collapse, and NYFD fire fighters reporting the fires in WTC 7 were burning out of control and causing bulges in the side of the building. At the very least, this gives the fire-induced collapse scenario at least some credibility...or at least, more credibility than some college kid making internet videos in his dorm room has.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
I am going by actual eyewitness accounts of the people who were there, such as NYPD helicopter pilots reporting the support beams in the WTC were glowing red from the fires and looked liek they were going to collapse,

Let me offer this in reply, one, more, time, and that's it as I realize I can't keep repeating myself

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
It doesn't matter if the trusses at that level turned to butter, what ensued thereafter, was utterly impossible, absent the use of explosives. The Zelikow authored official conspiracy theory myth, in terms of the assumption as to the causal mechanism of the destruction of the twin towers of the WTC on 9/11, absent the use of explosives is what I jokingly refer to as "The Foot of God Hypothesis".

Anyone who observes the videos the destruction of the twin towers, without assuming that the plane strikes alone must have been the cause, will note - that it is ONLY in the available DIFFERENCE of time between absolute free fall from the height of the twin towers, and the actual time of destruction, within which every single weld and bolt and core column breakage could have occured, or in about THREE SECONDS, where absolute free fall in air would be just over 10 seconds (with air resistence), and the recorded time for destruction from top to bottom, is about 13, maybe 14 seconds max.

One
Two
Three

What, did all the breakage of the progressive, gravity driven collapse, occur at about the SPEED OF SOUND?

We cannot violate the laws of motion to make the official story work. Sorry.

Absent the use of explosives, and there's plenty of evidence for them being present, what the official story defenders would ask us to believe, is utterly IMPOSSIBLE.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2bd5fc777eb1.gif[/atsimg]

Watch the videos, bring a stopwatch.

Case closed.

It was an elaborate murderous HOAX of the farthest reaching historical proportions and significance, and Bush and Cheney, and many others, they knew the score.

There's even a video of Bush arriving there in NYC at a hanger, without a care, and somewhat pleased, parroting something about twisting and bending steel..

It makes me sick.

There were many innocent people in those buildings, and in Iraq who's death was completely unneccesary, and now we see the US practically brought to its knees economically as a result of all this mayham, this Satanic doctrine for bending history to the will of the USA in cahoots with Israel.

It's a disgrace! How DARE people who've looked into this thing closely DEFEND it?! It's indefensible, and a very very serious issue..

edit on 12-11-2010 by NewAgeMan because: pic added to illustrate and clarify

reply to post by GoodOlDave


GoodOlDave, your attitude is sickening and your logic non-existent.

Just because she had to jump to avoid heat doesn't mean the fires were hot enough to melt steel, or were bad enough to destroy a steel building. Humans are a bit more sensitive to heat than steel.

The rest of your posts are appealing to emotions. From your post record, it is quite obvious you have to resort to outlandish tactics just to make a point since you lack any type of solid logic otherwise.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


You go by the accounts of eyewitnesses?

Well the eyewitnesses say there were explosions in the basement.


My only question:

Why not grant the victims of the family members an independent investigation?
If they wanted to put conspiracy theories to rest, it would seem like they would be DEMANDING a new investigation themselves. The 9-11 commission members themselves say it was phony, so why do people still believe the official story? Lack of education? (not meant to be offensive, honest question)

There was formed a comitee to evaluate the work of the 911 comission.

read the Family Steering Comitee's testimony about the 9/11 Commission. Especially Mindy Kleinberg, and Kristen Breitweiser...
www.911independentcommission.org...

list of unanswered questions
www.911independentcommission.org...

Here the FSC evaluation of the 911 comission
home.comcast.net...

the movie about the 4 widows who caused the formation of the 911 comission and their fight for the truth

Google Video Link

1) I want to know why for the first time sixs months prior Larry silverstein was able to purchase the towers for a lesser bid than another one that was presented.

2) I want to also know why ICTS was able to let these supposed hijackers through the net and why there is a criminal security company that the relation Ezra Harel is a relation to none other than Isser Harel - Spymaster of the Israeli Intelligence Services. Director of Mossad and Shin Bet from 1952-1963. was allowed to be in charge of airport security at boston where the twin tower flights originated.

Now those are just two questions outside the norm that have been stated....when investigating start from the begining please.

for more info on these questions

The who Done It

reply to post by GoodOlDave


Sorry good ol Dave the issue about Norad has not be gone over at all...and if you feel the need to only Quote the 9/11 commission which was a complaete and utter farce then so be it....
I have loads of the actual Norad tapes right from the Phone of mister cooper to Norad and the responses then were given...and believe me it was complete and utter chaos...not only that there is one fella who says "I cannot believe there is so much real world stuff going on during so many exercises"

1) Flight 93 virtually disappeared. When the Pan Am flight crashed in Lockerbie, Scotland, it was blown up at cruise altitude then fell from that altitude to the earth and there were plenty of large pieces recovered, including the entire cockpit. Where is flight 93? Show me one other airline crash where the aircraft was reduced to pieces no bigger than a business card? Not possible.

2) Pretty much the same question as number one for the Pentagon plane. They show a perfectly round hole in the 3rd ring yet there is no cockpit to be found! What exactly blew that hole through the 3rd ring? An aluminum aircraft would never survive going through 3 fortified rings and then leave a perfectly round hole on the inside of the 3rd ring. Furthermore, there are NO wing marks in the side of the Pentagon yet we are expected to believe that flight 93 left wing "divits" in the ground in Shanksville. That just doesn't fly. No pun intended.

reply to post by conar


Your post has brought me back to a thought which I entertained for the first few years after 9 11.

How could we go about setting up our own independant citizens commission to investigate this event?
I fully realize it would not have much "teeth" unless we could somehow garner some type of "official
powers" recognition. Maybe some one from the legal profession could be gracious enough to chime in
on this prospect.

Even without any enforcement capability, if enough real information were put together in a document of
some formal standing, just maybe it could stir up a more official enquiry. I also know we can forget about
anything from our "justice" dept or congress. They have already been bought off.

reply to post by GoodOlDave




Aw, Jeez, Dave ...

"All of this was already covered by the 9/11 commission report"
does not mean much to those of us who think it was a load of rubbish,
which it was, of course.

Shoot down orders by Bush? Easy to give when the aircraft are missing.

"... thoroughly irrelevant to anyone else." I agree! What I think
about these things matters not at all, just as you are completely
irrelevant in your own self-righteous way. We are not making any
difference here (and you are trying harder than most).

But at least I'm thinking. I see what just doesn't fit and I know
- from my own experience - that this thing stinks. I would need
hours of smashing empty aluminium drink cans into my forehead to
believe in these blatant lies.

I get the impression that you are just taking it all hook line and
sinker and reading from a script, and it really puzzles me.

Your misdirection is almost impressive; in a previous post you
re-wrote someones statement ... and then insisted that they rewrite
theirs - as misinterpreted by you!

The "fire-induced collapse scenario" is the weakest point in the
argument. It could not have happened the way they said it did:
fire wasn't hot enough, not enough fuel, wrong kind of fuel, the
towers and contents turned instantly into talcum powder. No way.


The reason why I joined in on this (excellent) thread is that I'm
really angry that 'they' got away with it. What are you angry at,
Dave, apart from the people who want the truth to come out?

The truth could include "covering up gross incompetence", if you like.

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by Iwinder
4 Planes down over land and lots of debris for sure including tires, a fully intact passport, lots of stuff now I must ask what became of the 8 data recorders that could not survive a building crash but a tire and a passport sailed right through?

Think for a moment... you are on top of tall building. You have 3 items: a piece of cardboard, a rubber tire, ad a box full of electronic circuitry. Let's call it a DVD player, but pretty much any electronic gadget will do. You then take those 3 items and throw them off that roof of that building to the sidewalk below. Which is least likely to survive that fall more or less intact - the piece of cardboard, the rubber tire, or the delicate electronics?

Ok, I thought for a moment. Now, YOU think for a moment. Did those 3 items fall from the top of the building at free-fall speed? Not, they didn't. Assuming they were all in the top of the tower prior to collapse, they actually hit the ground at a relatively slow speed. It took 10-14 seconds to hit the ground.

The "black" boxes are in the tail of the airplane for a reason; it's the least susceptible to damage from impact. Now, lets think again; if you drop those same 3 objects from the top of WTC, which ones are most likely to "disappear" before they hit the ground? I'd say the lighter ones. They can be caught by the wind, blown away, etc. The black box may take impact, that doesn't imply that it would completely disappear from the face of the earth and that is what you are implying.

When people like you throw out your "analogies", you impart inaccurate or unlikely assumptions, thereby creating a distract from the truth. Let me say it again; hitting the ground and being damaged is NOT the same as disappearing from the face of the earth. And you are suggesting all 4 black boxes just "vanished". If you honestly believe that, then I will not be able to carry on a discussion with you.

Finally, one last proposal. Let's assume all of the items stayed in the top of the building until it collapsed. Which ones do YOU think would survive an hour of flames hot enough to melt solid steel?...Oh, the passport of course. How silly of me.

Good thread despite it being allowed to be attacked by off topic posters...

1-Why are we responding to off topic posters?

2-Why when we insert our "on-topic" 2 questions, we get creepy thread stalkers posting off topic items? And, why are they permitted to continue without warning to stay on topic like the rest of us?




"You are an experienced contributor to ATS. Please be an example for our newer members and make every post matter."

Like for example; Post two questions. Then go about your day as you normally do.

Back on topic...

1-There was a power down in the two towers prior to 9-11; weren't those buildings equipped with generators? Why would a power down be necessary? And if the NSA was in WTC7, wouldn't they have a generator? This is asking about "National Security" the very thing which was compromised on 9-11...And defended vehemently.
2-Did the WTC complex have a single water main to service all buildings simultaneously, or was each building equipped with it's own on-off switch?

Are the answers to these questions buried in the OS also?

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by onehuman

 

I have lots of questions like everyone else, but I really only have one for this moment in time. What woman standing where the plane crashed? I have never heard nor seen that. Can you point me in a direction for that?

Edna Cintron

WOW in researching this picture I found something I had never seen before another person, a man this time.

Check it out in the top left corner he has no shirt on. Edna is in the bottom right corner.
Anybody know the name of the man?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/80f78d31416f.jpg[/atsimg]

edit on 14-11-2010 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)

Im curious. Is there also a third man in a lower left corner?

I have always kind of wondered what that other ball of light or orb was that seemed to come down from the sky.
I havent been satisfied with that either.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


Good picture, note the steel beams that are bent outward, from an incoming plane?

1. Who shorted (a 170% increase in normal short positions) the American and United stocks three days before and profited from their sharp stock decline?

2. Why were the buildings condemned and ordered to come down by 2007? (hint: retrofit for asbestos would cost 3X more than the worth of both buildings) Just imagine the scaffolding alone.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by xavi1000

 

...like flight 93...

You don't consider it odd, when trying to claim a "shoot down" of UAL 93, that both the DFDR and CVR continued to operate normally, all the way until impact? AND, indicated no malfunctions, mechanically, at all??

You see, assuming a "shoot down", one would expect something like Sidewinder or something...heat seeker. That would be one of the engines, as primary obvious sources of heat. Losing an engine due to a missile explosion would mean electrical, hydraulic and pneumatic interruptions, to mention just three things. All things that would have registered on the Flight Recorder data.

Noises, too, on the CVR (that didn't occur).

Further, IF catastrophic break-up in flight, and power (normal electrics) both Recorders will stop immediately. The data will stop, prior to the impact. (See TWA 800, PanAm 103 as two examples).

Wild speculations are interesting...until facts get in the way.

Yes, until facts get in the way.....such as the fact that Flight 93's debris field was spread along an approx. 6 mile path; a fact not consistent with an otherwise intact plane hitting the impact site.

reply to post by weedwhacker


You're not going by the guidelines proposed by the original thread poster, why? This is not a de-bunking thread, as we have already established and accepted the original report to be a fraud. Careful now, some might get the idea this is your full time job and not just a full time hobby. You are welcome to post your own thread though.

reply to post by [davinci]


I not only have been saying the same exact thing, but I've said time and time again that the families of the victims that died in those buildings were being stonewalled to keep them from suing.
IMO it proves two theories ATS's chat about 9 11 and depopulation. They are obviously aware their friends built shoddy buildings and Guiliani was knighted afterwards for his good job at keeping the suits at bay.

2 questions about 9/11?
1. why is nobody dropping this suject?
and
2. Why do you care if some out of control goverment attacks itself to start a war? i mean its not like you can stop them.

"stop at once" military kinda just moves around you lol

I am skeptic on it being terrorists and it being the goverment, i am just 50/50 on the subject, but really i couldnt care less that thounsands of people died, we are over populated, we are 7 billion and growing, whats a few thousands here and there?

Life goes on, i might sound like socoipath or just heartless, but its true what effect does it have on the population? NOTHING, other then some overly american politcans saying 9/11 and everybody cheers for america. None of you would cry if it was israel, or iraq, or even a differnt species such as bear or deer, you only care about your own species, your own nation.

So thats why i dont care on the subject, and if these conspiracies are true, i am siding with the goverment, they wouldnt make an action unless they thought it through completely, and personally i see only logical choices made. You have to realize the people working for the goverment, are not merely everyday working idiots, these are highly profssional and highly intellgent, they know the reprocussions of thier actions. (such as crazy paranoia)

Most of you are over sentive, and seriously in nature, you die if you are overly sentive, overwhelmed by everything around you, they did it for rescoures, and if they didnt things would be alot of expenive (merely delaying the invitiable)

So really who cares if a 747 flew into a building or two and thousands or people died, if it was your family sorry to hear about that, but thats life, they could have had it worse off. Think about 3rd world counteries, you never do, but imagen how they have it going for them, each and every moment is cheerished to them, to you people, you merely want the latest item of popular demand, monkeys!

1. Name the top 100 individuals who gained the most amount of wealth following the attacks (including the no-bid contracts in Iraq/Afghanistan, Oil, Patriot Act aiding technology, pharmaceuticals, insurance payoffs, military equipment/infrastructure etc.)
2. What is their link to the Bush Administration (not "is there a link...", it's "What is their link...")

Those two alone will never be answered satisfactorily without implicating certain individuals.
If you answer those questions, the rest will fall into place/the OS will crumble.

reply to post by conar


The list of unanswered questions is a prime example of why no one takes the "independant commission" people seriously. Its full of assumptions, assinine statements, lies and questions that were answered long ago. Im sorry that so many victims families have been taken advantage of.