Discussion Concerning Israeli Influence In The U.S.A

Originally posted by Djarums
Zcheng, in numerous threads on this site all I see is jew this jew that. Perhaps you have registered for the wrong site? I can't imagine you have nothing else to talk about... give it a try it's healthy.

It is a fact, and I do not deny facts. It seems to be too difficult for you to swallow the fact or admit it. It is your problem, not mine.

I'd like to invite you to review your own posts:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

How pathetic that US policies are dictated by Jewish interest and mass media as well, and your precious and brave US soldiers are used as cannon folders for Israel interests.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I believe you are Jew and in Israel. How convenient you want US soldier die for you and your country? How many more you want?

Yes, now that's what you call an open minded person interested in learning. Accusations abound, but no need for evidence, that is everyone else's job right? And if heaven forbid someone disagrees with you, you type "I believe you are a jew". That was supposed to be an insult right? And then anyone else is supposed to take you seriously?

It appears I'm not the one with the problem. At least I don't shoot off ethnic slurs at people when I have nothing to say.



[edit on 7-15-2004 by Djarums]

Originally posted by Djarums
I'd like to invite you to review your own posts:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

How pathetic that US policies are dictated by Jewish interest and mass media as well, and your precious and brave US soldiers are used as cannon folders for Israel interests.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I believe you are Jew and in Israel. How convenient you want US soldier die for you and your country? How many more you want?

Yes, now that's what you call an open minded person interested in learning. Accusations abound, but no need for evidence, that is everyone else's job right? [edit on 7-15-2004 by Djarums]

I still hold the same opinion you quoted above. The evidence is so obvious, if you willing to look at the facts. Israel not only suck US people in term of money and blood in enormous scale.

Do you know how much US taxpayer's money is sent to Israel every year? Why should US pay for Israel?

You have the right to differ.

zcheng,

The United States provides money and other forms of aid to damn near everyone. What people like you intentionally mislead others about is how much is actually spent on foreign aid.

According to the United States government website that officially deals with foreign aid, aid to other countries around the world accounts for less than one half a percent of the federal budget. Don't believe me, read it here: www.usaid.gov...

Secondly, you seem to disregard all other financial aid the US provides to everyone else but Israel. For some reason it's ok for "the taxpayer" to pay for the other countries "sucking" the US's money. All countries, that is, except Israel according to you.

If you would please do me the honor of looking at this document www.usaid.gov... you'll see that Israel's aid from the United States has actually gone down in recent years.

Of course I have to wonder why you only question Israel when according to usaid.gov Israel got 360 Million in economic support and other countries certainly got a hell of a lot more. Egypt gets 535 Million, isn't particularly fond of the US as evidenced by their press and popular opinion, yet you don't say anything about why our taxpayers are being "sucked" for that much money by Egypt.

Again it becomes clear that you do look at facts, as do I, but you distort them for some reason not known to me. I'm not disregarding or ignoring anything. I'm refusing to buy into a cheap conspiracy theory that has no foundation, no proof and no support other than people who want to believe it.

A common thought on this site is that too many people just believe what the government tells them. I think it's just as big a problem when too many people just believe what others tell them in general. Stop listening to hateful diatribe and consider points yourself. I find that I do a better job of learning when I do it on my own rather than doing it through the poisoned filters of others.

Djarums,...If you are trying to imply that the United States only gives Israel $350 million a year...then you are the one distorting the facts. The site you refer to does not handle all of the United States aid to countries. Do you think Israel would be a viable State if it did not recieve the massive assistance provided by America? No other country has the infrastructure of groups whose sole purpose is to ply funds from the United States and then try to silence any discussion by Americans.

This is from AIPAC

This week, the House of Representatives is expected to vote on the fiscal year 2005 Foreign Aid bill, which allocates $2.58 billion in assistance for Israel. The legislation sets aside $2.22 billion in military aid to the Jewish state and an additional $360 million in economic assistance. The bill also limits assistance to a future Palestinian state unless the Palestinian Authority ends terrorism and undergoes extensive democratic reform and makes it harder for Palestinian non-governmental organizations to receive aid without demonstrating that the funds are in no way linked to terror. Aid to Israel vividly symbolize America's unshakable commitment to Israel's security, and gives Israel the means to maintain a vital qualitative edge over its adversaries. Urge your House member to support this legislation and oppose all efforts to cut the aid.


In a testament to the strong support for Israel on Capitol Hill, both houses of Congress voted overwhelmingly recently on resolutions endorsing the principles outlined in a letter to Prime Minister Sharon from President Bush on April 14. In the letter, the president asserted Israel's right to defensible borders that reflect demographic realities; stated Palestinian refugees would not be permitted to settle in Israel; and called for an end to Palestinian terrorism. The House resolution, co-sponsored by Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-TX) and Democratic Whip Steny Hoyer (D-MD) passed 407 to 9, while the Senate version, co-sponsored by Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-TN) and Democratic Leader Tom Daschle (D-ND), passed 95 to 3. Thank your members of Congress for supporting this important legislation.


After years of secret development of a nuclear arms capability and ongoing efforts by Iran to undermine the work of U.N. arms inspectors, Congress is working to halt Iran's acquisition of nuclear weapons. In anticipation of the annual summit of the G-8 industrialized nations scheduled to begin on June 8 in Georgia, 66 Senators and 209 Members of the House co-signed a letter urging the President to raise the issue of Iranian nuclear capability at the leaders' meeting. In addition, the letters propose the institution of multilateral economic sanctions if Iran continues to defy its obligations under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. The Senate letter was authored by Sens. John Ensign (R-NV) and Bill Nelson (D-FL), while a House version was authored by Reps. Eric Cantor (R-VA) and Joseph Crowley (D-NY). Thank your Senators and Members for signing the letter.


Following three and a half years of Palestinian terrorism, Israel has been forced to build a security fence as a last resort to stop suicide bombers from entering Israel. Had the Palestinian Authority (PA) fulfilled its commitments under the Road Map to fight terror, there would be no need for the fence. Reps. Mike Pence (R-IN) and Shelley Berkley (D-NV) have introduced a resolution (H. Con. Res. 371) expressing Congress' support for the construction of the security fence and condemning the decision by the U.N. to request the International Court of Justice to render an opinion on the legality of the barrier. In addition, Reps. Gary Ackerman (D-NY) and Ileana Ros-Lehtinen have introduced a resolution (H.Con.Res. 390) expressing support for Israel and condemning the use of the ICJ in lieu of pursuing the Road Map. The resolution also expresses strong support for the vision laid out by President Bush in his June 2002 speech that called for an immediate cessation of Palestinian terrorism and the emergence of new Palestinian leadership untainted by terrorism. Urge your House members to co-sponsor both resolutions.


In the wake of years of secret development of a nuclear arms capability and ongoing efforts by Iran to undermine the work of U.N. arms inspectors, Congress is considering legislation to halt the Islamic republic's acquisition of nuclear weapons. Recently, the House of Representatives passed H. Con. Res. 398 by a vote of 376-3 with 14 members voting present. The resolution, authored by International Relations Committee Chairman Henry Hyde (R-IL) and Ranking Member Tom Lantos (D-CA), calls upon all signatories of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), including the United States, to use all appropriate means to deter, dissuade, and prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, the Senate is considering a similar bill (S. Con. Res. 81) by Sens. Jon Kyl (R-AZ) and Dianne Feinstein (D-CA). Thank your members of Congress for signing the letters.


The President signed the Syria Accountability Act into law on December 12, 2003. This legislation seeks to impose sanctions on Syria, including cutting off U.S. trade and downgrading diplomatic relations with Damascus, until Syria stops supporting terrorism, working to acquire weapons of mass destruction and illegally occupying Lebanon. A leading sponsor of terrorism, Syria also has harmed American efforts to rebuild Iraq by allowing terrorists who have carried out attacks against American soldiers to cross into Iraq from its territory. The Syria Accountability Act is designed to serve as an additional pressure to encourage Syria to curtail these dangerous activities. Thank your representatives and senators for their support of this legislation.


Receive up-to-date information regarding legislation affecting the U.S.-Israel relationship and take advantage of our interactive features to keep your members of Congress informed on these important issues. Use our quick and easy devices to search for your member of Congress and then take action. E-mail a letter to your member of Congress to ensure that your voice is heard.

The above information can be found at: www.aipac.org...

Respects,

Out of curiousity do you find anything wrong with this part of your above quote?

The bill also limits assistance to a future Palestinian state unless the Palestinian Authority ends terrorism and undergoes extensive democratic reform and makes it harder for Palestinian non-governmental organizations to receive aid without demonstrating that the funds are in no way linked to terror.

Because it's clearly stated in Israel's economic aid package that such money is supposed to be used in a way to encourage democracy, improve the free economy etc. So when America gives aid to any country they do try to spread their views to that country through their financial aid as well. In the case of the PA they're demanding that the economic aid is not used by organizations that fund terror - a tricky condition when considering that Arafat's Fatah movement does include a military offshoot actively involved in terrorism.

My point was not to be an accountant, sorry if it came off that way. The point I was making was that it boggles my mind why considering the massive amount of nations accepting aid from the United States, including many that demonstrate a clear disdain for the United States I don't understand why Israel is the only one who's aid is constantly questioned.

And if giving �% of the national budget to countries who's economies need assistance bothers you, well that's too bad. The US has a fairly long tradition of helping others out. You might not believe that if you listen to much of the negative news out there today but please go to the USAID site i linked to earlier and check out the huge amount of countries the US gives a lot of money too. And it happens to be a lot more than just Israel.

Again, 1amc, I appreciate your research and understand that I was including only the Economic aid there, but I would just ask you to understand that I was simply trying to clarify misstatements by people who for some reason think Israel is the only country getting money from us. Fair is fair.

You know the weird thing is that here in Israel all what the media talks about is how we do everything U.S tells us to do, and all of Sharons decisions are based on that. You are probably not aware of the fact that when the each time something happens the US tells us something like "our government is not satisfied with your actions", and then OUR governemt immidiately stops those actions, or at least does something about it.

I think you should review your thoughts about who is controlling who, because it seems like you can't see much from your safe and happy life in the US.

Now if you excuse me, I'm late for my secret Jew meeting...

Originally posted by Djarums
Again, 1amc, I appreciate your research and understand that I was including only the Economic aid there, but I would just ask you to understand that I was simply trying to clarify misstatements by people who for some reason think Israel is the only country getting money from us. Fair is fair.

Israel is received the larget aid from US for how long now? From the data, 1amc provide it is already 5 billion dollars. There are goals not included. Do you think Israel will repay those? Do you know the percentage of aid to Israel for all?

Originally posted by zcheng

Originally posted by Djarums
Zcheng, in numerous threads on this site all I see is jew this jew that. Perhaps you have registered for the wrong site? I can't imagine you have nothing else to talk about... give it a try it's healthy.

It is a fact, and I do not deny facts. It seems to be too difficult for you to swallow the fact or admit it. It is your problem, not mine.

Zcheng,

You are correct that the Jewish state dictates America's actions.
Jew's own this Country and most of the World. I am not antisemitic,
in fact I probably have Jewish roots.

The media in the U.S. is owned and operated by Jews as is the
World banking system. Jews invented the fiat currency system and
usury. It is a known fact.

Israel is received the larget aid from US for how long now? From the data, 1amc provide it is already 5 billion dollars. There are goals not included. Do you think Israel will repay those? Do you know the percentage of aid to Israel for all?

Considering they've only existed since 1948 and had zero economy then I think that should answer the question. Additionally most countries gain a lot of money for tourism which has, in Israel's case, been nearly completely destroyed as no one particularly wants to travel to areas that have mad bombers taking out food stores and malls.

Again we see a closed minded approach with your question? Do I think Israel will repay its aid? Does anyone else repay the aid they get from the US? Go look the stats up. Plenty of countries get hundreds of millions of dollars a year. It is not expected that they'll give it back. This isn't like a house mortgage, try to understand that. The United States helps other governments. You still have not shown any reason why Israel is not deserving of aid the same way the other half of the world is deserving of aid. Your line of questioning indicates to me that it doesn't bother you that we give aid to countries that hate us as well, it only bothers you that Israel receives money.

It bothers you that Israel receives military aid? I know... the military aid we've given to Afghanistan, to Iraq and even to Saudi Arabia which has all been used against us was far more justified than what we gave to Israel. You're interesting.

Djarums...there you go again, I will give you credit you are constant. The percentage is not 1/2 percent....it is more like 30 percent. I am begining to see you as irrelevant.

Respects,

One Arrow batterie has been deployed at the Palmachim base to provide cover for Tel Aviv

The Arrow Missile Program system's research and development is jointly funded by the U.S. and Israel.

It has provided the United States with a wide range of technical and operational data and experience that benefit similar American weapons development projects such as the THAAD missile, also designed counter missile attacks.

Iamc, do you find anything wrong with this?


Rebekka

nm

[edit on 15/7/04 by Transc3ndent]

Jew's own this Country and most of the World.
The media in the U.S. is owned and operated by Jews as is the
World banking system. Jews invented the fiat currency system and
usury. It is a known fact.

Ah yes, the Jewish usury. Thank you for that touch of the middle ages! How heartwarming it is to see opinions like yours.

I like how the Jews own the world but have been chased out of every corner of the globe, attacked for their religion, and even today people question their right to exist. That's one hell of a powerful group of "world-owners".

As for your statement

I am not antisemitic,
in fact I probably have Jewish roots.

No one cares. People have grown tired of reading a stupid ignorant speech of bloodsucking jewish usurers owning the planet and seeing a light disclaimer of "You can't say I'm antisemitic because I'm jewish too!"

Don't insult us. Make a statement and stand by it, your disclaimer doesn't do much.

Hi 1amc,

I think you should read what I say before commenting.

Try it, it works.

I stated that the total of foreign aid the United States provides totals up to one-half a percent of the national budget.

That is a stat from a US government website. If you think that the US is shipping 30% of it's national budget overseas, take it up with them. Not me.

If I'm irrelevant, put me on ignore. It wouldn't be the worst thing to happen to me

Proof:

According to the United States government website that officially deals with foreign aid, aid to other countries around the world accounts for less than one half a percent of the federal budget. Don't believe me, read it here: www.usaid.gov...

That was what I said re: half percent. Were you missing something?



[edit on 7-15-2004 by Djarums]

Transc3ndent... yes we are probably a bit safer than you, but then again we are not occupying Canada or Mexico, stripping them of land and diginity. Although a case could probably made for a wall between the US and Mexico. In some ways I suspect it is possible that people in Israel are treated as our government treats Americans.....Like mushrooms, kept in the dark and fed manure.

Respects,

Let me not take chances in asking you to click a link.

Here is the direct quote re: half percent of the national budget going to foreign aid.

U.S. foreign assistance has always had the twofold purpose of furthering America's foreign policy interests in expanding democracy and free markets while improving the lives of the citizens of the developing world. Spending less than one-half of 1 percent of the federal budget, USAID works around the world to achieve these goals.

That was the statistic I quoted and reffered to.

The only other place I reffered to the half percent statistic was here:

And if giving �% of the national budget to countries who's economies need assistance bothers you, well that's too bad.

Which of those should read 30%?

The USAID one or where I mention giving half a percent to countries who's economies need help.

[edit on 7-15-2004 by Djarums]

IAP is an Islamic owned and operated organization. All I'm saying is, consider the source.

Djarums.. The issue is not just the amount of funds, it really has little to do with my thoughts and concerns about the State of Israel and certain Israeli groups.

What is this talk of Israels right to exist, for some strange reason this always comes up even when no one indicates that thought.

Could it be that the State of Israel and certain Israeli groups are so worried about any discussion of the relationships by the American people is that, it is a house of cards that might be toppled by open discussion.

Respects,

P. S. For what reasons should Americans "trust" Israel?

For what reason should America trust any other country? That's up to the leaderships of those respective countries to establish. Not you or I. To be quite open and honest with you, I'm well aware that the United States government has many closed doors meetings with the leaders of other countries and I'm not privvy to such things, just as most other people are not. That's why we have leaders. In the particular case of the US and its relationship with Israel has come under examination thousands of times.

Now, if we look at this realistically and for a moment ignore the "Jews control the world" theories, let's evaluate why that may be.

Why would the United States have a good relationship with Israel? Well, we should keep in mind the Democratic link between the two. Israel is a democracy and shares many of the same views as the United States. Additionally we should keep the location of Israel in mind. Israel is a country with similar views to the United States that happens to be located in the middle of a region that is very different from our part of the world. Israel is in the neighborhood of countries like Syria, Lebanon, Iran etc and can you possibly understand why it's important to have a democratic, stable government in the area?

My personal belief is that the US should enjoy the same relationship with Israel that it does with England, Australia etc. The nations of the world that have similar ideals should certainly have close relationships and alliances. There is nothing wrong with that. Now whether or not Israel is to be trusted by the US government is between the American and Israeli governments to determine based on their actions towards each other. Recall that in 1991 the Israelis were being fired upon repeatedly by Saddam Hussein and being familiar with Israel you should know that would have normally merited a swift retaliation from them, but they did nothing. They sat and got shot at because the American government informed them that if they join in the attack on a Muslim nation, all the other Muslim governments in the coalition would drop out. Taking the American request as a higher priority than their pride or even instincts, they in fact did just that and sat and got shot at.

I'm not saying the government of Israel is perfect, they're not even close. They have their flaws just like every government in the world does. Keeping a democracy in a land of kings and dictators and religious run states is not necessarily a bad thing for the United States is it?