Mysterious Missile Launch Over California - 11/8/2010

reply to post by dude69


Do you know how it is, when you "think" you remember something, but you get it wrong...but THEN you write it on the Internet, and pretty soon people repeat it, and soon it is a "new truth" (when, in fact, it isn't true at all)....

Used to be called, before the Internet, an "Urban Legend". Passed on by word-of-mouth. Now, it goes "viral", and like an infection, spreads out of control, usually.

HERE is the true story, with FACTS:

www.npr.org...

And another:

www.nytimes.com...

And, yet again:

seattletimes.nwsource.com...

A year later, after the Chinese test (they shot down THEIR OWN satellite), the USA tested:

www.timesonline.co.uk...

SO, talking about....what was it you said, again????

reply to post by weedwhacker


Ahh I get ya WW, it's like everyone is saying this was just a plane although no official is prepared to come out and say it 100%...
So when It dies down people will just accept what was told over and over, A Plane..

Is that that, "If a lie is told often enough it becomes truth: concept?

Originally posted by dude69
reply to post by tommyjo

 

fantasy world?...I don't have the link to prove it and I'm too lazy to search for it, but one of America's satellites was nuked by a chinese ICBM some time ago. Out of nowhere...you're living in fantasy land.

Of course they did ? If you are too lazy to search for it then why bother replying? China destroying their own satellite with a missile (non-nuclear) is the reality. I'll leave you to your fantasy theory!

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao confirmed that they had shot down their own satellite.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

TJ

reply to post by windwaker


What ever happend either way the government is gonna cover it up

Not trying to go against the house expects, but among our Thanksgiving dinner guests was a retired missile engineer with more than 30 years experience with Rocketdyne/North American, Canoga Park facility, and he said that there is no chance this is the contrail of any known aircraft.

He has witnessed more than 200 missile launches during his career developing the engines for the Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo's J-5's and he is positive, without any shadow of a doubt, that what we have witnessed is a missile launch. When I mentioned a few of the most respected members from ATS believed it to be an aircraft contrail, and that one was a commercial pilot, all he could do is chuckle and shake his head. "There's no chance this is an commercial aircraft. It's a typical missile launch."

I have personally witnessed about 40 launches from Surf, CA, just north of Vandenberg AFB, and many from my home in the San Fernando Valley and I must say from moment I saw the video in this thread I was sure this was a missile launch. A very normal missile launch just like all the other I've seen throughout my life.

No offense intended Weedwhacker. This one came from the horses mouth.

Originally posted by Oldnslo
Not trying to go against the house expects, but among our Thanksgiving dinner guests was a retired missile engineer with more than 30 years experience with Rocketdyne/North American, Canoga Park facility, and he said that there is no chance this is the contrail of any known aircraft.

He has witnessed more than 200 missile launches during his career developing the engines for the Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo's J-5's and he is positive, without any shadow of a doubt, that what we have witnessed is a missile launch. When I mentioned a few of the most respected members from ATS believed it to be an aircraft contrail, and that one was a commercial pilot, all he could do is chuckle and shake his head. "There's no chance this is an commercial aircraft. It's a typical missile launch."

I have personally witnessed about 40 launches from Surf, CA, just north of Vandenberg AFB, and many from my home in the San Fernando Valley and I must say from moment I saw the video in this thread I was sure this was a missile launch. A very normal missile launch just like all the other I've seen throughout my life.

No offense intended Weedwhacker. This one came from the horses mouth.

Good post Old,
But is there any chance you could squeeze out a little more info from your guest? I note he says a normal launch, is that as opposed to an abnormal one? had he a reason to believe a smoke/steam trail and not basically steam without smoke? and also where might you expect to see the different stages occur, as per the video, and did he think it was making a manoeuvre while climbing, Thanks.

I will see what I can do. He is my son-in-laws father and is 83 years young. I will say the red/brown contrail (back lit by the Sun?), to me is curious and appears to be from possibly a solid rocket propellant. I did see the rotation in the exhaust trail and will try and get his explanation or impression. To see some rotation is expected as it makes it's initial roll procedure but this occurs much earlier than what we see in the video.

By the way, any "staging" most likely would have occurred at an altitude and at a distance which would not be visible to the human eye. An ICBM usually has a range of 6,000 - 8,000 miles and has a long initial boost stage prior to 1st stage separation.

If I get more info, I'll post it.

reply to post by Oldnslo


OK...when you can, will you also ask him what sort of missile is so slow, that it would stay in the cameraman's viewfinder for about 10 minutes?

Also, other angles (please indicate whether or not this gentleman saw ALL the various photos, from different geographical locations, and depicted a horizontal contrail?). OR, just the one or two stills from the video that were part of the flap to begin with, as promoted by the cameraman, and the local LA TV station.

Further....none of the ATC personnel at the LAX TRACON, nor the Los Angeles ARTCC (actual facilities are up in Palmdale, they monitor airspace above 20,000 feet, mostly) saw anything on their radar.

Primary radar can "paint" a Cessna 150 (and smaller) with ease.

Thanks.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Oldnslo

 

OK...when you can, will you also ask him what sort of missile is so slow, that it would stay in the cameraman's viewfinder for about 10 minutes?

An experimental one that doesn't have all the kinks worked out yet.

One that is designed to go slow, so not to start nuclear war.

One that was fired upon and sustained some damage yet kept on going.

Just a few possibilities to think about.

Basically, I think it was China.

reply to post by unityemissions


There is no such thing as a "slow missile".

A missile, by definition, (unless a "cruise missile") will have no, or minimal, airfoil surfaces, and thus, will only stay aloft against gravity by following a trajectory...which MUST be angled to high elevations (altitudes) above the Earth's surface.

A vehicle that is slower then MUST use aerodynamics, and the Earth's atmosphere, for sustained (slower) flight.

This is basic physics, aerodynamics, and rocket science, all combined.

A "slow missile" is by default, an airplane. Even "cruise missiles", with rudimentary (tiny, tiny) airfoil surfaces for guidance, and some aerodynamic effects to support it, are very, very fast. Although some are sub-sonic, most are faster:

en.wikipedia.org...

You can read about various styles, mission parameters, ranges, effectivity, and so forth....

reply to post by weedwhacker


Err.. since the word slow is relative, I think it's best to use a different term. How about at a rate less than optimal? I'm well aware that ICBM's need to ascend at a rapid rate to reach their destinations, but must they go at the ~13,500mph that one would see the average ICBM going at? NO. I don't need a calculator or physics book to know that!

Let me put it this way. Do we know how far this supposed missile may have traveled? Aren't ICBM's designed to go thousands of miles? Suppose this was some sort of test of might by China. Why would they need to design one that goes mach 10?! Do the laws of physics require this to reach a high altitude and travel a few hundred miles? I really doubt that!

Check it, from your link:

The U.S., U.S.S.R, China and India have developed several long-range subsonic cruise missiles. These missiles have a range of over 1,000 kilometres (620 mi) and fly at about 800 kilometres per hour (500 mph).[citation needed] They typically have a launch weight of about 1,500 kilograms (3,300 lb)[citation needed] and can carry either a conventional or a nuclear warhead. Earlier versions of these missiles used inertial navigation; later versions use much more accurate TERCOM and DSMAC systems. Most recent versions can use satellite navigation.Long-Range Subsonic

Here's a link to the JL-2. It's a new SLBM from China that was set for deployment in 2010. Maybe what they did was test it's range by firing close from US shores and pointing it towards China! Perhaps it didn't perform as designed? This is all entirely speculation, of course.

SLBM JL-2

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Oldnslo

 

OK...when you can, will you also ask him what sort of missile is so slow, that it would stay in the cameraman's viewfinder for about 10 minutes?

Why do people keep talking about 10 minutes? The unedited video does not run 10 minutes. The object appears to move quite fast as a missile would. The reporter or pilot may or may not have mentioned something about 10 minutes, but this is unverified and irrelevant. Just examine the unedited video and time it.

reply to post by weedwhacker

OK...when you can, will you also ask him what sort of missile is so slow, that it would stay in the cameraman's viewfinder for about 10 minutes?

It has already been shown countless times that the cameraman NEVER stated he filmed this trail for 10 minutes..
The narrator at the station added that in..The cameraman had been filming the sunset and traffic..
The 10 minutes could easily have included filming either or both of them..

So please drop the 10 minutes of trail filming idea unless you have proof..
It's so unlike you to sprout unsubstantiated claims..

reply to post by commonsense2010


The 10 minutes comes from CBS themselves.

www.cbsnews.com...

'The Pentagon is still not sure what that was in the sky off the coast of California -- except that it was not a missile fired by the U.S. or some other country, reports CBS News Pentagon correspondent David Martin.

The video of what looks for all the world like the contrail of a missile was shot Monday evening by KCBS cameraman Gil Leyvas from a news helicopter over Los Angeles.

"I saw a big plume coming up, rising from looked like beyond the horizon and it continued to grow," Leyvas said.

He zoomed his camera in and stayed on it for about 10 minutes. To him it looked like an incoming missile.'

All you are seeing is edited video. If it had been a fast moving ballistic missile event then how did Rick Warren manage to photograph it for so long? Do a search for Rick Warren on Flickr and ask him to send you the raw images. No ballistic event lasts that long.

Rick's images were spliced into the UPS902 McDonnell Douglas MD-11 flight analysis.




See analysis on the following.



See analysis of the CBS video. CBS has been asked repeatedly for the full version to be made available. So far they have not responded.

www.freerepublic.com...

TJ

reply to post by backinblack


Remember this was the second time that Gil Leyvas has witnessed this event. He saw it on the 4th November. Rick Warren was able to photograph this object in frame for many minutes. If Rick was able to do this then there should be a lot more footage from Gil's camera?

Snippet from his CBS TV interview.

"Well, I realized that it was something that we saw earlier from the week before -- we saw something very similar the past Thursday, and immediately I realized that it was something very similar, and called on the 2-way there to our assignment desk to let them know that we were seeing it again. It's not as dramatic as the one from yesterday -- the one from yesterday was pretty spectacular. Like I said, it was growing in nature and continued to fly up into the sky, and at one point it seemed to separate. The smoke or the plume seemed to stop and then continue further up in the sky and then finally disappear."

Interview link at following.

losangeles.cbslocal.com...

Was it another missile event on the 4th or was it just the same McDonnell Douglas MD-11 producing a persistent contrail? UP902 flew the exact same route and time on the 4th November. Coincidence?

TJ

reply to post by tommyjo


This thread has gone on long enough with good info on both sides..
I honestly don't think we will every trully know..

You say it could be solved by CBS releasing the full video and I agree..
What I don't know is why the don't.
Certainly could be that they perpetrated a know hoax but would they really do that?
Could be that they have been told not to release it or even that it has been confiscated.
It's not like the Government hasn't confiscated video before. Look at 9/11..

Maybe the complete video shows that it was a missile and they don't want that known..
Who really knows?

reply to post by backinblack


Contact details for the news station on the following.

losangeles.cbslocal.com...

TJ

I have now changed my opinion. It does look like a plane to me now. contrailscience.com has some good analysis that is quite convincing. When I first read contrailscience.com awhile ago, the evidence they presented was weak in my mind. Not now.

The thing that tricked me was: 1. Many experts stated that they thought it was a missile. 2. The corkscrew contrail was strikingly similar to missiles. 3. The apparent flame images suggested a stage separation of a missile (it must be light reflection).

Interesting case.

reply to post by Bicent76




That what I was saying if not top secret test it was a chinese sub. testing our defenses.

That what I was saying if not top secret test it was a chinese sub. testing our defenses.

What kind of insane theory are you thinking? You don’t sail a few miles off shore and fire a missile! That constitutes an attack even if the missile is fired in the opposite direction. Try running up to the presidential motorcade with a plastic gun and claim I’m just testing you. Just try walking into a bank with a plastic gun and see what happens.

Some people just don’t live in the same reality as the rest of us.