Mysterious Missile Launch Over California - 11/8/2010

Originally posted by Regensturm
There have been a few posts on a possible China angle here, so I will just expand on this theory.

Recently, we have seen US Naval military exercises in the seas off China, and also in the seas around North Korea.

China recently laid claim to the entire South China Sea as it's territory, a move that concerned the US and challenges formerly the US Naval presence in East Asia, and also the territorial claims of other countries in the region, including allies, and new-found allies of the US.

China is currently concentrating on expanding it's blue-water fleet so as to back up it's new-found global power with a projection of power.

In the recent China-Japan dispute, Hilary Clinton offered to mediate, which was rebuffed by China, who see the US as a strong ally of Japan and who would therefore be seen by China as biased in favour of Japan.

We are witnessing in the early 21st century the beginning of the changing of the guard of Superpowers. The US is in decline as a superpower, and slowly is giving way to China and India. Indeed, Obama's visit to India and British PM Cameron's visit to China reflects this. We are witnessing a re-allignment of powers.

Just as The British Empire was once a global superpower, and in decline, allied itself with the next superpower the USA via trade and military partnership, so we witness now the decline of a global superpower, hoping to ally itself to the next superpower, or one of the superpowers in the form of India.

The UK meanwhile, sees business opportunities in China, as it saw in the US in the 20th century.

India's big regional rivals are not Pakistan, but China. Just as the US saw the Sino-Soviet split in the 60's to ally itself with China by the time of the mid-70's as a bulwark against the Soviets, so we see the US trying to ally itself with India as a bulwark against China, as well as seeking business opportunities from seeing India-China rivalries.

The UK meanwhile, long an ally of the US, sees the US in decline, and as the UK is also in decline, it faces new realities. Shared defensive capability with France, and possibly to a wider extent the EU, being the future it seems.

Trade partnerships with China, India and within the EU being the future it seems.

For sure, the US is still a powerful military power, but so was the Soviet Union in it's decline, the Red Army, despite it's size, could not preserve the superpower status of the USSR because the Soviet economy was shot to pieces.

Since the end of the Cold War, we have seen the US project it's power wherever it likes, unopposed by other powers.

US military exercises in the seas off sovereign countries being the norm.

With the rise of new superpowers, this is coming to an end.

I have long been of the belief that should China reach the capability, they will repay the US for the US military exercises in the seas off China's shores by some sort of display in the seas off the US's shores, as a demonstration of power, to tell the The White House that military exercises near China will be responded to with Chinese military exercises near the US.

If this is a missile, as it appears to be, and if it is China, and you would be niave to think it is not possible that China or another foreign power could sneak a Submarine so close and launch a missile, should you be worried?

If there was a war, yes, feel free to defecate yourselves.

But if this is China, and it's a Chinese missile, they are sending out a message to the US: A US missile exercise off China's shores will be responded to with a Chinese missile exercise off the US's shores. Stop your exercises, and we will stop ours. You may be capable of doing damage, but so are we.

If this is China, this is the flexing of muscles in response to the US flexing muscles. It's a macho-macho game, and the scary thing is they are doing it with missiles (scary enough) near cities (Even more scarier).

Imagine this is China letting off a missile. You would be worried. A US missile launch in the seas of China has the same effect on the Chinese. How do you deter it if you are the Chinese government? Do the same back.

A Chinese missile launch in the seas off the US now would also be especially embarrasing and designed as a response to Obama visiting India, China's rival, but also while the British PM, the leader of a country with whom the US is said to have a 'special relationship' is visiting China.

How impotent does that make The White House look? Very. It would impress upon the UK if they found out that while they were visiting China, the Chinese launched a missile in the seas around the US, supposedly a big and strong ally. The Chinese would be saying "Look UK, this is how weak the US is. This is how strong we are."

Again I repeat, if this is a missile (as it appears to be) and is the Chinese, the US will not admit it being so.

Do not expect there to be following statement:

"We can confirm a Chinese submarine launched a missile in the seas off the coast of the US. We do not believe at any time the security of the US was threatened. We have launched a diplomatic protest with the Chinese Embassy and summoned the Chinese ambassador."

For one, it would be a huge loss of face for US national prestige because two, it would be admitting the Chinese had secretly managed to do this without forewarning, in the face of US military power.

Three, the tensions this would create via a public acknowledgement an unannounced Chinese missile launch in the seas off the US could get out of hand.

Four, Obama's popularity would crash. Goodbye, second term!


The Chinese would be content with The White House knowing it was them. The missile launch would be for the American people to see, and wonder what it is. The missile launch would be for the American government to see, know what it is, and see the message of Chinese muscle-flexing and scramble for the excuses that "err, we don't know", "It's an optical illusion", "It's a plane" "It's a bird!" "It's Superman!".

edit on 11-11-2010 by Regensturm because: (no reason given)

Great theory. This one makes the most sense.

Originally posted by ZeroGhost

Originally posted by thecinic
I have a problem with some of the coverage of this event. A fair number of semi-authoritative people have said, flatly, that it was a plane rather than a missile. But in this video www.youtube.com... in the 42-second to one-minute range, I see what appears to be rocket exhaust burning rather brightly. Planes don’t do that, and I don’t think this is the sun reflecting off a shiny plane body. So… what’s up?

I agree that the close up video showing the bright source is not quite a "flash" of sun reflected. It would change intensity as angular view changes.

I also noticed some what seemed like billowing at the assumed exhaust that would match a rocket fuel vapor. The billowing could be air turbulence or temperature differential in air between the lens and the object at that magnification. I have observed such looking at terrestrial targets with a powerful telescope.

No sign of reality for any explanation yet. Still go with aircraft myself.

ZG

I live in LA. I've seen hundreds of incoming planes in the evening, but the "sun reflection" off the plane doesn't add up. Check the sun position to the relative position of the plane. I believe that the sun would illuminate the back of the plane (if it's incoming) and the glare would be invisible to an inland observer. ---> rocket booster.

Originally posted by favouriteslave

Originally posted by beastamerica
i got these pictures today (iphone) here in downtown los angeles, Ca. I'm pretty sure it's a plane, but i didn't get a clear view of the aircraft in my pics. it was 8am pacific, it's almost above downtown L.A.

YEP, I almost took pictures of that too. It was around 10:45am? It was a plane. I watched the plane make it.

thanks for the confirmation, where u at in L.A.?

reply to post by windwaker


Makes no sense to me that China holds a military exercise about 50 miles off the Cali coast. Undetected Chinese sub ...? No way, unless they're ready for WW3.

Originally posted by AllIsOne
If the video was shot in the evening the sun angle is wrong to illuminate the "plane" like it did. It looks like a rocket booster to me.

When was the video shot?

It was shot in the evening.

The current crop of debunkers on this thread will most certainly not accept your point though.

I could probably post a video of a space shuttle launch, label it as a airliner contrail and they would agree with it.

reply to post by beastamerica


Yep, looks like a plane to me. The vid in question doesn't.

reply to post by butcherguy


Thanks for your quick response. So how do the debunkers explain the glare coming off the "plane"? The sun is setting further West behind the object in question. How can the sun light bend and get in front of the "plane" to produce a glare?

reply to post by AllIsOne
Good point here-

How can the sun light bend and get in front of the "plane" to produce a glare?

But they will probably say that there is no proof that the chopper was located to the east of the 'contrail' when it filmed the event.

Originally posted by Regensturm

Do not expect there to be following statement:

"We can confirm a Chinese submarine launched a missile in the seas off the coast of the US. We do not believe at any time the security of the US was threatened. We have launched a diplomatic protest with the Chinese Embassy and summoned the Chinese ambassador."

For one, it would be a huge loss of face for US national prestige because two, it would be admitting the Chinese had secretly managed to do this without forewarning, in the face of US military power.

Three, the tensions this would create via a public acknowledgement an unannounced Chinese missile launch in the seas off the US could get out of hand.

Four, Obama's popularity would crash. Goodbye, second term!

Interesting post and theory.... But one thing that must be addressed is the global financial and stock markets reactions to something like this.

Upon confirmation of something like this there would have been a wave of panic in the markets and it would likely cause them all to crash in a single day.

I mean we are talking about a theorized Chinese missile launch near the US mainland?

Even if this was a missile, and it wasn't ours and not the Chinese... any clear confirmation of that would also cause a panic in the markets, because we are talking about a potential act of war against the USA here... If there was any truth to it you would have already seen a market reaction to it.

Then again, a crafty trader could bet to lose launch a missile, make it look like it was the Chinese and become a billionaire within hours.

It was a plane and a contrail..... It has to be!

Originally posted by Regensturm

If there was a war, yes, feel free to defecate yourselves.

I'm sorry to say this will probably be our only option.

I for one have little confidence if any at all in Obama as a military leader, look how long it took him to just make a decision (months) to come up with those additional troops McChrystal needed in Afganistan. Then I wonder if he has adopted Bill Clinton's stance that we will "Accept a First Strike", talk about selling your own Country out.

I imagine the Chinese are scratching their heads, how do you launch a missile in full sight of Los Angeles, in the daytime and end up with a ridiculous (eventual) cover-story being swallowed by so many.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by backinblack

Care to do a zoom in on the original footage and show us this plane? Please

I dont have the programs to do it but I know you do.

I do have the software... but in this case I only have a screen capture from that chopped video to work with... so no... I cannot pull out either a plane or a missile. Even in the other images I posted, though they are higer rres, they still don't produce an object..

BTW here is another one...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/27ad2a3e9f54.jpg[/atsimg]

Zorgon,

Thanks for posting this pic. It looks like it was shot in front of the Marina del Rey channel looking North. On this pic it looks like the object in question originated from Vandenberg AFB and not the ocean ... ??? I'm confused ...

Originally posted by AllIsOne

Makes no sense to me that China holds a military exercise about 50 miles off the Cali coast. Undetected Chinese sub ...? No way, unless they're ready for WW3.

Let's turn this around. It makes no sense to me that the US holds military exercises some miles off the Chinese coast. No way, unless they're ready for WW3.

See what I'm getting at?

Not starting WW3, but ready if need be.

It makes perfect sense if it is the Chinese. Muscle-flexing. Just like the US does miles off the Chinese coast.

If it's the Chinese, it's a display of power to the US, who seemed quite powerless to stop it and had no forewarning of it's occurance.

It's a little odd to see a contrail so low in the athmosphonere from the camera angles they are showing.

No the entire contrail is at 37,000 feet just like the airplane.

The military doesn’t know anything about it because there wasn’t anything unusual to track. There was no rocket and the plane was where it was supposed to be. There was nothing to report.
Likely they did spend a certain amount of time querying their ships and subs as to any accidental launchings.


Thought experiment:

Your ship goes down at sea and you are in a raft with an emergency locator. All you see around you is ocean in all directions.
As the plane (with contrail) heads straight towards you what will you see? You will see it traveling straight up from the horizon trailing smoke. It will pass directly over your head leaving a perfectly vertical contrail from the horizon.

reply to post by Regensturm


There is a little detail that you don't mention. The US military exercises, albeit reckless, are always announced ... If a US sub just waltzed in unannounced and fired a missile that close to Chinese territory there is no telling how they would react.

reply to post by samkent


Please check the "plane's" position and the sun angel at that time and then tell me how the glare was produced? Do you see the glare in the original video? Thanks.

Originally posted by sprtpilot
I imagine the Chinese are scratching their heads, how do you launch a missile in full sight of Los Angeles, in the daytime and end up with a ridiculous (eventual) cover-story being swallowed by so many.

Well, if it was the Chinese, then the Chinese know all about the control of media propagation, the control of information.

If it was the Chinese, it was unexpected and The White House would naturally want to deny it, The White House will scrabble around desperately as it appeared to do for an explanation, before coming up with the excuses of contrails and optical illusions.

Bear in mind that some (not all, naturally) of those within the media and consulted by the media who will state it is not a missile will do so because it has been their task assigned to them to control, dictate and influence public and media opinion. The White House would see this as vital. They would not want these missile stories to get out of control, nor want a foreign power being seen as responsible, a media PR disaster would be an understatement for The White House.

reply to post by AllIsOne


In addition to your post, to those who claimed it was a plane: Why was a plane flying in a no flying military excercise area UNLOGGED and UNREGISTERED, furthermore spewing contrails, AND the authorities including Pentagon and NORAD had no idea within 24 hrs of that 'plane' or its details in its vicinity????

Is American airspace that vulnerable and manned by village idiots that the nation is depending on for security????

Originally posted by AllIsOne

There is a little detail that you don't mention. The US military exercises, albeit reckless, are always announced ... If a US sub just waltzed in unannounced and fired a missile that close to Chinese territory there is no telling how they would react.

True, but if it was the Chinese, there are two things we need to consider:

1) The Chinese may have done this, to see if they could sneak in and do it unannounced, as a test of their and the US's military capability.

2) China are not yet at a stage to be on a par with the US militarily in terms of blue-water. If they had pre-announced it, Obama would probably have moved naval assets closer to home, making a Chinese military exercise risky to say the least in such proximity to US naval assets which would outnumber the Chinese.