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Originally posted by SevenBeans
And by the way, blacks can't hide the color of their skin, if we could have we would have (because we faced ACTUAL discrimination like SLAVERY and OWNERS with WHIPS). If you were really scared about discrimination and violence you wouldn't go around telling everyone that you're gay, no one cares anyhow.
There is no proof that Matthew Shepard was killed just because he was gay, the same is true of most "hate crimes."
Originally posted by IamCorrect
As someone who's worked in the mental health profession, that's really naive.
Actually, closeted homosexuals trying to hide their orientation also face much discrimination in middle school, high school and beyond unless they're skilled at masking their true identity. Even if they don't officially come out of the closet and admit they're gay, probably over half the time other people suspect or conclude that they are.
Originally posted by IamCorrect
In addition to that, sometimes straight boys are bullied because people think they're gay.
Originally posted by IamCorrect
In other words, closeted homosexuals often have to be willing to wake up every day and be an actor and try to live a lie so convincing that their parents, siblings, and peers don't start thinking they're homosexual, while hoping to never mess up and do anything that may reveal them as homosexual; like being caught staring at another guy in a magazine or in real life, etc. This might even extend as far as dating women they can't feel anything for and going out of their way to demonstrate a falsehood to the rest of the world.
Originally posted by Brood
Except a testimony from his killers saying that they did it "because he came on to me in the truck and it made me feel uncomfortable"...
Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by SevenBeans
And heterosexuals NEVER do anything like that, do they!
Mardi Gras in New Orleans... Fantasy Fest in Key West... etc. etc. etc.
Originally posted by IamCorrect
Every time they see a teenage boy and girl walk by holding hands it probably makes a lot of them feel sad, as they realize they never got to have a girlfriend/boyfriend in high school, etc. Many of them even commit suicide.
Originally posted by SevenBeans
Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by SevenBeans
And heterosexuals NEVER do anything like that, do they!
Mardi Gras in New Orleans... Fantasy Fest in Key West... etc. etc. etc.
Notice the names have nothing to do with sexual orientation? You obviously completely missed the point...
Tangeman told the jury that drugs, alcohol and past instances of sexual abuse on defendant Aaron McKinney, as well as overt sexual advances by diminutive Shepard all conspired against McKinney to commit the crime. Tangeman told the jury several instances in which McKinney, starting at age 5, had been abused by other boys. In one case, when he was 7, McKinney had been forced to perform oral sex and engage in a sexual act with another 7-year-old neighborhood bully who deemed McKinney a homosexual. Tangeman also noted a "confusing" experience at age 15 with one of McKinney’s cousins.
Prosecutor Cal Rerucha knew the "gay panic" defense was coming and counterattacked with his opening outline of the events that happened.
Fireside employees will testify, "If anything stood out, it was the fragileness of Shepard, " Rerucha stated. Henderson and McKinney approached Shepard. They had talked and agreed to rob Shepard. "McKinney and Henderson picked Shepard out of the bar as an easy mark. The three left the bar in a truck, Henderson driving them out of town. Aaron said, ‘We’re not gay and you’re getting jacked,’ " Rerucha continued. McKinney then began hitting Shepard over the head with a .357-Magnum pistol. Rerucha said that when the beating started, Shepard pleaded with his attacker, telling him that while there was only $20 in his wallet, there was $150 at his home and they could have that. After stopping in a deserted field McKinney made Shepard get out of the truck. "McKinney was worried Mr. Shepard could see his license plates, " Rerucha said. Rerucha said "McKinney asked ‘Can you read my license plate?’ Matthew Shepard said, ‘Yes I can read your license’ and read it. " This further enraged McKinney who struck him three more times over the head as hard as he could, knocking him unconscious. "He read it back to me and I hit him again, " McKinney said in his taped confession to the police. "Matt Shepard begged for his life. Matt Shepard negotiated for his life, but McKinney gave him blow after blow, " Rerucha said.
According to subsequent testimony by both women (Chastity Paisley and Kristen Price [the two mens' girlfriends]), the two men planned in advance to “play queer,” gain the trust of some homosexual, and then rob and beat him up. Their story was later confirmed when Henderson turned state’s evidence in order to avoid the death penalty.
The prosecuter never believed it was a hate crime, but we're supposed to take Brood's word for it lol.
Originally posted by Brood
This coming from someone who hasn't sourced any credible information, yet continues to condemn 8% of the population based on something that he is clearly incapable of arguing?
Originally posted by Brood
What life experiences do you have with homosexuality? I have decades upon decades. But I suppose YOU should be educating ME, right ?
Originally posted by Brood
The prosecutor? I had a groups of teenagers that went to high school with me take my coat from the coat rack and my work when I was 18, drive around my drive-thru lane, throwing ripped pieces of the coat at the window screaming "Burn in hell, fag!". The prosecutor did not see how it was a hate crime, either. I guess prosecutors are just as capable of fabricating straw man arguments as you are.edit on 15-11-2010 by Brood because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Brood
Prove? Let's just say it's beyond a reasonable doubt...
You don't have to be homosexual to realize they can do anything that a straight person can do (except the military bit). I'm still waiting for you to point some things out... I'd have thought you'd have listed hundreds of things by now (since it's "soooo comprable" to the bias black people went through).
This is the problem, you can't look at the issue rationally.
There is no proof that he was killed because he was gay, you see a homosexual get beat up or killed and you just assume that it must be over hatred of homosexuals.
I had a friend in the sixth grade who had his arm broken because he worked on a farm and sometimes he smelled like manure, they called him Cow Pattie. In the second grade there was a girl who had some kind of skin problem, every time she got near other kids they would say "Jenny germs, Jenny germs, run" (this went on for years and she had crying fits/mental breakdowns at least twice a week). I have a hundred stories like this, many of them much worse than your story. None of this stuff is acceptable, but it happens to almost everyone at one point or another.
Originally posted by SevenBeans
Nonsense. He hadn't slept for 5 days, was having withdrawal from meth and needed money for more drugs, he was beating someone else up 20 minutes later.
This information alone is enough to create reasonable doubt about the motive.
Originally posted by Brood
=You don't have to be homosexual to do some modern research and prove yourself wrong.
Originally posted by Brood
Black people can do anything white people can do. What are you on about? Oh you going to give me an argument against that?
Originally posted by Brood
Except a testimony from the murderer that said that he planned to lure in a gay guy and hit on him then beat him up and rob him. Again, you are the one incapable of accepting the truth here. These are hard facts. Get over it.
Originally posted by Brood
And which of these instances is protected by official protected grounds in the criminal code? Guess they aren't hate crimes.
If a woman hits on a man, lures him to a private place, smacks him with a crowbar and robs him... I guess that must be a hate crime against straight people. DUH, not.
DUH, that's the point Einstein and that's why I oppose hate crimes legislation.
Why do you think someone who beats the crap out of a Veteran for example (because they hate Veterans) deserves less punishment than someone who beats up a homosexual (because they hate homosexuals)?
I think they deserve the same amount of punishment.
Originally posted by Brood
And if she, say, was a lesbian, and said, "I'm going to lure a straight man in and rob him", it would be the same situation, and she would be charged with a hate crime.
Originally posted by Brood
Because veterans chose to serve in the military, that's the difference. A veteran could stop wearing his/her war uniform or medals and talking about Communists and Nazis (trying to make up reasons why people could possibly hate a war veteran). Homosexuals did not choose to be gay, and no matter how hard they are rideculed and hounded about it, there is nothing they can do to change it. Whether or not this is a globally accepted truth does not change that fact.edit on 15-11-2010 by Brood because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by SevenBeans
Originally posted by Brood
And if she, say, was a lesbian, and said, "I'm going to lure a straight man in and rob him", it would be the same situation, and she would be charged with a hate crime.
Complete and utter nonsense. You think she could lure a gay Man away with the promise of sex? DURR! Has nothing to do with hate, has to do with opportunity.
Right a veteran can just hide the fact that he served... pathetic.
How about someone that gets beat up for being skinny, or having acne, or being born to rich parents or poor parents etc. etc. etc. You are the biased one, not me. There is no reason that one kind of victim deserves more attention, sympathy etc. etc. and there is no reason that hate inspired violence should be punished differently based on the target.