It's not about Jobs! Jobs! Jobs! it's about CONSUMPTION!

This is the big problem with the economy. We have two political parties that don't understand that we're in a global economy with cheap labor. This means we can't afford or sustain the big government of Bush or Obama.

I complained when Bush spent like crazy and now Obama, Pelosi and Reid are out of control with their spending.

We can't be a nation based on production. We have to be a nation based on consumption and small, limited government. Bill Clinton understood this. This is because Clinton was a Centrist and a pragmatist. Bush and now Obama are ideologues. Ideologues can destroy the country because they aren't trying to do what's best for the American People. They already know what's best and it's their ideology.

See, other countries will hold our debt as long as we consume their goods. So the American people can borrow and consume as far as the eye can see. The problem occurs when governments borrow, waste and spend as far as the eye can see.

We have a 13 trillion dollar GDP and 13 trillion dollars in debt. Anyone with half a brain knows this can't be sustained. If we had a 13 trillion dollar GDP and 5 or 6 trillion dollars in debt we would be sitting pretty. This is because money and credit would be flowing through the economy.

The fact is JOBS ARE NOT COMING BACK TO AMERICA! We have to realize this and adjust. We will get more entrepreneurs and people retraining for jobs in the service sector.

Obama and others talk about green jobs like there magic jobs. I was just reading where 20,000 green jobs just went to India. You often hear Politicians say the American worker can compete with anyone in the world. THAT'S JUST BS!

We can't compete with someone making 2 dollars an hour. So we have to adjust. People keep saying Obama is the future but his policies are old, lfar left, big government, big union policies.

This is the last thing we need in a global economy with cheap labor.

Thanks for that post and a star for you, you have nailed the problem this trend of consumerism is what is killing America for decades, but while we were prosperous that prosperity has gone down the crapper.

BTW love for everybody, you know (got to work on my Karma points)

I'm just curious,
But did you say "Jobs! Jobs! Jobs!" because you saw this video?
From 1:40-2:10

It has become too expensive for most to actually,seriously consider becoming an entrepreneur in this country.

The licenses,taxes and insurance will put them in the red before they turn a profit at all,and it's getting worse every day.

Wall street does what it pleases,and it's FAKE economy is broadcast as some type of recovery?.

Clinton,>By The Way

You are right on the money, pun intended. We are a country of people of throw away and buy new. Even though the country's in a recession, everyone is still trying to keep up with the Jones'. We were taught that what made America great is that we have new things, while the rest of the world was trying to keep up with educating their people. Now that our education system is in the toilet, our jobs are gone, and our brains haven't caught up yet.

By the time everyone realizes that they are broke, their will be no jobs, no farms, and everyone's new items will be worthless, because you can have a 50 inch screen t.v, but cant afford your electric bill to watch it.

Peace, NRE.

It all comes back to Big Government.

When Americans have to support massive government and massive debt then Consumption is hurt. This is because people have to divert money away from consumption in order to support these crooked, big spending Politicians in Washington.

This is why there's trillions of dollars of private capital sitting on the sidelines. They know Americans are not going to use that money to consume goods and keep the Global Economy going, it's going to go to Government and bills that can't get paid because big union Obama is screaming Jobs in a global economy with cheap labor.

Politicians=Parasites
Politicians=Parasites
Politicians=Parasites
Politicians=Parasites
Politicians=Parasites
Politicians=Parasites
Politicians=Parasites
Politicians=Parasites

reply to post by Matrix Rising


You are absolutely correct. The consumption society is harmful economcally, environmentally and morally. Consumption, fueled by mass media has created a society of non-thinking, needful people. While people used to measure themselves by the knowledge they obtained or the experiences they have had, today people measure themselves by the kind of car they drive, designer clothes, TVs, you name it.

It is getting worse. Its getting worse because the corporates and media are driving this stuff down the throats of kids like never before. The latest is this nonsense called "silly bands" rubberbands in the shapes of various things. Kids buy them, trade them, show them off. They just got banned at my kids school because all the kids were doing was fooling around with their silly bands. Some kids have a thousand or more - all the way up their arms and these are 8 year old kids. That the parents would allow this is a topic for another thread.

The solution is complex. At a macro level, we need economic policy that discourages consumption via a consumption tax replacing the income tax. At a micro level we need to get back to basics. Turn off the TV. Spend time outdoors, work to become a great conversationalist and endeavor to have conversations with people, not just shoot the breeze, work to learn something your are interested, be it Greek history or the engineering around suspension bridges - something. Take up a musical instrument, become a great cook. Work your mind as hard as most folks work their muscles. If you're not doing that there is nobody to blame but yourself.

If we all were to do more off that, we would find that our circle of friends would likely change. We'd also discover that we really don't need all of the things we thought we needed. We would also be happier

Originally posted by chiponbothshoulders
Politicians=Parasites
Politicians=Parasites
Politicians=Parasites
Politicians=Parasites
Politicians=Parasites
Politicians=Parasites
Politicians=Parasites
Politicians=Parasites

EXACTLY!!

Ideology is like Political Religion and this is why the Republicans need to win at least in the House in November. Many Republicans are just as bad but we have to moderate Obama's ideology. The answers are usually not on the far right or the far left but the middle or the third way.

Obama feels his ideology is the only thing that can save America. This is why Oprah called him the one and the seas are supposed to roar and angels are supposed to sing because he's elected. So of course he thinks his ideology is right for America when it's not.

We have to have a small and limited Government in a global economy with cheap labor. We will not survive with massive government and massive debt. This is because we can't create enough jobs or the kind of jobs to sustain the behemoth in Washington.

In 2012 Obama has to go. America has to elect a Pragmatist. We can't handle another ideologue after Bush and Obama. Ideologues are true believers and the American people needs to keep them away from power and let them preach their ideology on talk shows. In these times the last thing we need is an ideologue.

IMO, the things that make us the way we are, is something of our own doing. The government doesn't force us to buy these products, we go to the store and buy these things, we give Big Corp a reason to stay in business, because we continue to consume.

The president, politicians congress and government continue to remain corrupt because we eat it up! We look at the false ads, we pick a side based on what they say, and not what they do. There is no one to blame but ourselves. Forget government or the 2012 election, it doesn't matter who sitting in the office, what matters is the decision that YOU make.

Peace, NRE

The problem with consumption is that although debt and money are limitless, resources are finite.

Resources such as oil, food, water, land, metals, etc can't be chased after with paper debt notes. Other resources like a stable society can't be bought with paper debt notes either, in a way it makes it worse.

While the U.S. and her citizens are trillions in debt, we are actually very very rich. It is through the use of paper debt that certain parties have monopolistic control that we are made as slaves. What is worth more, farmland or Wall Street property? Yet Wall Street and the bankers have corrupted the system in such a way that green printed things are much more important than food.

It's not about jobs or consumption, its about currency.

I have to disagree with you OP and let me explain to you why.

You believe that since we cannot compete with foreign employment that we must bend to meet the current shifts in economic climate which consistently develops each year as the global economy changes. According to this an ideologue would be unwilling and/or unable to change their views to adjust to that ever changing global economy. This is where I part with you.

While I one hundred percent agree that Consumption is the most negative economic influence America when it is taken to the extremes we should not be willing to virtually ‘bend over backwards’ due to the changes of the world. There are several policy initiatives which we should be seeking that would help strengthen our economy and bring back jobs. The most important first step is to establish a Fair Trade system followed by public works programs which have a specific policy of only buying goods that are made here in America.

By enacting Fair Trade we will require foreign nations to adjust their labor standards to an acceptable level for us to engage in trading of goods combined with them being required to low or eliminate their tariffs on our exports thus making it a Fair playing field for trade. When it is Free Trade we are at a disadvantage as foreign nations are permitted to set up their trade systems in a way that benefits their nation and its economy at the expense of our nation and economy. Requiring them to level the playing field would produce incentives for foreign companies to create jobs here instead of the current ‘race to the bottom’.

Following that we should create a public works program of reinvestment to stimulate production in our domestic manufacturing with a national policy which clearly states that all goods used to rebuild America must be made in America. Using this we would create tens of millions of jobs which will remove the current strain on the welfare system and will provide a new group of taxpayers. This will allow us to lower taxes and slash government spending while keeping our social safety net.

A national initiative of full employment should then be pursued by our government where we harness the power of all natural material and physical labor of our nation. With government assisting to fund R&D by private companies we would have millions of new jobs coming to the United States from foreign nations to take advantage of a safe and guaranteed investment in their companies which would be an investment in our nation.

When you combine the effects of just Fair Trade and Public Works we could have as many as ten million new jobs in the United States combined with a government pursuit of full employment as we did during the ‘Golden Era’ (1951-1973) this would relieve the welfare system and create new taxpayers thus lowering the deficit and ensuring more confidence in the ability of our nation to pay off its long term debt which allows for more foreign investment in our nation and make it easier to pay off our debt.

Our politicians of the ‘Golden Era’ knew how to govern best and they proved this with such presidents as Dwight D. Eisenhower, John F. Kennedy, Lyndon B. Johnson and Richard Nixon. It does not take an ideologue or a pragmatist, it takes a government willing to do unpopular short term legislation for popular long term effects.

reply to post by Matrix Rising

We can't be a nation based on production. We have to be a nation based on consumption and small, limited government.

going to disagree here we need to be a nation of production thats what we use to be what we are right is a nation of consumption. when this country had a rich and deep industrial base that mean tax revenues generated by said industries produced more taxes than we do today.

See, other countries will hold our debt as long as we consume their goods. So the American people can borrow and consume as far as the eye can see. The problem occurs when governments borrow, waste and spend as far as the eye can see.

another problem with this is we already have mechanisms in place so that there is no need to be borrowing from anyone they are called taxes and when the government lacks cash it has another ability to create bonds to generate even more income these bonds to be sold to the public not foreign nations. when the government borrows from foreign states it is an act of treason selling its own soverignty out for a buck this problem is further compounded when the government expands its spending when its so easy to just go borrow from someone else.

living within governments means i agree with.

We have a 13 trillion dollar GDP and 13 trillion dollars in debt. Anyone with half a brain knows this can't be sustained. If we had a 13 trillion dollar GDP and 5 or 6 trillion dollars in debt we would be sitting pretty. This is because money and credit would be flowing through the economy

these problems are compounded agian by the federal government and the manipulation of the free market the devaluation of the dollar is the king of all the problems in this country if in fact if the trillions of dollars floating around in this country a significant portion of it was pulled out and end the artificial manipulation of the dollar that debt could essentially be cut in half the value of the dollar has more purchasing power.

The fact is JOBS ARE NOT COMING BACK TO AMERICA! We have to realize this and adjust. We will get more entrepreneurs and people retraining for jobs in the service sector.

jobs will never come back to this country for varying reasons:

people resources being number 1
educational levels
taxes
regulaltions
people thinking they are too good to work

all critical factors business leave this country because the resource level here are not desirable educated persons people willing to do whatever to make a buck.


obama and the left dont have a clue the legacy of the left is whats plaguing this country of today.

the creations of the left the federal reserve,regulations,unions,the entitlement programs are the leading cause of this nations problems much much has to be changed for this country to even begin to survive MUCH.

the problems of this country are not the fault of any one man but decades of selfishness and its not the people who you are currently thinking of.

socialist tendices are thats my call i am sure alot of you will not agree with this assesment and i dont want you to in reality my only goal here is to give you something else to think about along your path for truth.

and no i am a united states american citizen i am not a global citizen of anyone my home is the united states and last time i checked noone in the rest of the world has ever done anything whatsoever for me.

peace.

reply to post by Misoir


This will never happen and this is why we have to rely on Consumption.

Consumption is a good thing and Americans can consume. Other countries will hold our debt as long as we consume their goods. This puts us in the catbird seat as long as we have a small and limited government.

We can make trade deals with other countries and we can ask for certain things if we give those countries access to the American consumer.

There's no such thing as Fair Trade. We can't expect other countries to give up their advantage so we can compete with them when it comes to Labor. The workers of these countries will control their labor and eventually they may form organizations that look like labor unions but we can't force them to reach our labor standards because we can't compete.

If we had a 13 trillion dollar GDP and 5-7 trillion dollars in debt, credit and money would be flowing through the economy.

reply to post by neo96


You said:

going to disagree here we need to be a nation of production thats what we use to be what we are right is a nation of consumption. when this country had a rich and deep industrial base that mean tax revenues generated by said industries produced more taxes than we do today.

This is pie in the sky thinking. We can never go back to a nation of production because of cheap labor. If we go back to production then we will be a massive third world country. This is because American Labor will never compete with 2 dollars an hour.

So, we have to depend on Consumption. Consumption is not evil and it's what will make this country prosper again.

If we had a 13 trillion dollar GDP and a 5-7 trillion dollar debt, money and credit would be flowing through America.

reply to post by Matrix Rising


well man whose to say we would become a third world nation? we werent in the 50s or 60s or 70s

that was the golden age when we produce that means people work and if they work they have wealth and that wealth can be taxed that means that same wealth they have the cash to go buy other things and inject more money into the economy and that in itself is a avenue to credit.

we are nothing but a nation of consumption now we import just about everything today everything man and look who we buy from china and look at their level of economic growth.

we are going to disagree here man i respect your viewpoint but im just not going to agree with it.

peace

reply to post by Matrix Rising


You got it backwards.

We need an economy based on production, not consumption.

Saying we need an economy based on consumption is like saying we need an economy based on spending rather than saving.

Buying things does not make a country rich, producing things does.

Because the criminal federal reserve has suppressed interest rates into the gutter, it has forced Americans to spend their money or lose it. Since they can't make a return on savings, they must necessarily spend their money or lose it to inflation. Now we have no private investment capital left to rebuild our productive capacity. It was destroyed in the housing boom. This process of driving down rates destroys investment capital - both equipment and money.

This is the primary reason we have lost so much of our productive capacity. It has nothing to do with cheap labor in China. Trade specialization makes it possible for wealthy countries to pay their workers higher wages yet still compete in the global market place. This is because wealthy countries have a larger stock of capital goods, such as heavy machinery, labor talent, and saved resources.

I'm leaving out a lot in my description here, but it is our zero percent interest rates that have caused our problems, not cheap labor in China.

reply to post by neo96


You make a very accurate point neo96, that is exactly what I was trying to point out. We used to be a nation that was based around hard work and that mentality was heavily invested and the development of raw goods. When we lost that development of goods we lost our inner ‘American’ so to speak as sense of you being needed to push this country forward is no longer evident.

We are mere Consumers which is an immoral way to see ourselves as people. A healthy ratio of production and consumption is a necessity and any nation that lacks a healthy ratio will begin to lose its morals followed by its respect and last it will collapse into a third world nation. It happened to the Roman Empire and it will happen to us, all factors show our society crumbling after 1973 with the introduction of Neoliberalism and Free Trade agreements.

A society cannot and will not last without a sense of production or worth, when consuming is all that we are about this will lead to a more chaotic social system where crime, poverty, inequality, injustice and eventual self-destruction will occur. Your theory, OP, is wrong because you fail to recognize the ability of radical change. You believe everything must flow and this is how it will be but failing to take into account human emotion and tradition will has been the flaw of this new globalized economy.

There has been a rise in Far-Right parties in Europe lately which are not just reacting to the immigration crisis but also to the economic crisis which those in power are failing to see. The crisis has developed due to an era of unopposed economic order based around Corporate Capitalism which for example Jobbik in Hungary has put out videos which discuss bringing jobs back to Hungary and manufacturing. It is sad when many in the former Eastern Bloc are looking fondly upon the Soviet Era just because they could have jobs and produce things, that is the problem with globalized capitalism it destroys people and thus destroys society. Pragmatism can only go so far before it becomes blind of the truth and ignorant of reality in the pursuit of peace.

reply to post by neo96


You said:

we are nothing but a nation of consumption now we import just about everything today everything man and look who we buy from china and look at their level of economic growth.

There's nothing wrong with this if we had a small and limited Government. This is just the reality we're facing. Jobs are not coming back.

We can't sustain a big government and massive debt in a global economy with cheap labor. When Government grows, consumption takes a downturn and there's a credit crunch. Economic growth in this country was fine until the economy met big spending Bush and Obama.

Look what happened under Clinton:

* Strong Economic Growth: Since President Clinton and Vice President Gore took office, economic growth has averaged 4.0 percent per year, compared to average growth of 2.8 percent during the Reagan-Bush years. The economy has grown for 116 consecutive months, the most in history.

* Most New Jobs Ever Created Under a Single Administration: The economy has created more than 22.5 million jobs in less than eight years—the most jobs ever created under a single administration, and more than were created in the previous 12 years. Of the total new jobs, 20.7 million, or 92 percent, are in the private sector.

* Median Family Income Up $6,000 since 1993: Economic gains have been made across the spectrum as family incomes increased for all Americans. Since 1993, real median family income has increased by $6,338, from $42,612 in 1993 to $48,950 in 1999 (in 1999 dollars).

* Unemployment at Its Lowest Level in More than 30 Years: Overall unemployment has dropped to the lowest level in more than 30 years, down from 6.9 percent in 1993 to just 4.0 percent in November 2000. The unemployment rate has been below 5 percent for 40 consecutive months. Unemployment for African Americans has fallen from 14.2 percent in 1992 to 7.3 percent in October 2000, the lowest rate on record. Unemployment for Hispanics has fallen from 11.8 percent in October 1992 to 5.0 percent in October 2000, also the lowest rate on record.

* Lowest Inflation since the 1960s: Inflation is at the lowest rate since the Kennedy Administration, averaging 2.5 percent, and it is down from 4.7 percent during the previous administration.

* Highest Homeownership Rate on Record: The homeownership rate reached 67.7 percent for the third quarter of 2000, the highest rate on record. In contrast, the homeownership rate fell from 65.6 percent in the first quarter of 1981 to 63.7 percent in the first quarter of 1993.

* 7 Million Fewer Americans Living in Poverty: The poverty rate has declined from 15.1 percent in 1993 to 11.8 percent last year, the largest six-year drop in poverty in nearly 30 years. There are now 7 million fewer people in poverty than there were in 1993.

clinton5.nara.gov...

We don't need massive Government and Massive debt. We don't need an ideologue. We need a Pragmatist. Here's a video of Clinton saying,"The era of Big Government is over." Sadly, the Empire Strikes Back with Bush and Obama.

abcnews.go.com...