States Weigh Letting Noncitizens Vote (where is this mess gonna stop!)

PORTLAND, Maine -- Like his neighbors, Claude Rwaganje pays taxes on his income and taxes on his cars. His children have gone to Portland's public schools. He's interested in the workings of Maine's largest city, which he has called home for 13 years.

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There's one vital difference, though: Rwaganje isn't a U.S. citizen and isn't allowed to vote on those taxes or on school issues. That may soon change. Portland residents will vote Nov. 2 on a proposal to give legal residents who are not U.S. citizens the right to vote in local elections, joining places like San Francisco and Chicago that have already loosened the rules or are considering it.

Noncitizens hold down jobs, pay taxes, own businesses, volunteer in the community and serve in the military, and it's only fair they be allowed to vote, Rwaganje said. "We have immigrants who are playing key roles in different issues of this country, but they don't get the right to vote," said Rwaganje, 40, who moved to the U.S. because of political strife in his native Congo and runs a nonprofit that offers financial advice to immigrants.

Opponents of the measure say immigrants already have an avenue to cast ballots -- by becoming citizens. Allowing noncitizens to vote dilutes the meaning of citizenship, they say, adding that it could lead to fraud and unfairly sway elections.

Source: www.foxnews.com...

You can read (and get more inscensed at the B.S at the main source link).

You know, from this story and the one early in the year where the Democrates want to allow Felons the Right to Vote (link: www.freerepublic.com...) &
Illegals canvassing for votes (link: www.foxnews.com...) , A person has got to start thinking.... what is right? Where is this counrty headed? Why even abide by the Constitution/Laws anymore?

Being a Play by the Rulebook type of person (paying my taxes, paying my house payments, car payments and on & on) I am getting fed up with these Non-Citizens and People who have already made up their mind by committing a freaking felon that they deserve rights that have already been established they will not have (for whatever reasons).

But it seems now that there is a push to get every freaking non american citizen (being nice-it's Sunday) the right to vote is getting more prevelent each passing year. No wonder the Tea Party has taken off. The more I see of this stuff the more I see myself aliging with the mentality the WE-the little guys-Have to Stand Up and Say ENOUGH is ENOUGH!

To men that means cleaning the whole Congress out-at the Federal and State levels. TOP TO BOTTOM. We need to
start thinking about securing our homeland-getting things on the right track financially/working again. We need to focus on Americas Core now!

Oh my God, I am a Tea Partier-I just relaized it. Let the abuse begin.

But I tell you now. If you are in favor of letting our established laws and Constitution just be torn apart by people that shouldn't even be here let alone talking about ripping us apart-then It looks like your side is going to win (at this rate).

Well, I go off to spread the word and make others around me aware and point them to the info so they can see for themselves. I hope I got you started in the right direction.

GET OUT AND VOTE for some real change (Get These Bums out of office NOW).

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/672b87b95101.jpg[/atsimg]

Heh, talk about a misleading post.

They want to allow LEGAL residents the right to vote in LOCAL elections.. Things like who the towns accountant is going to be.. things like that. Doesn't even allow state level votes.

As for felons voting: If they have paid their debt to society-they should be able to vote. With so many things being felony level anymore maintaining the non-vote thing is something fit for places a bit more savage than the U.S..

But yeah, really misleading thread.

reply to post by anon72


Exactly how does allowing legal and productive resident aliens the right to vote upon local issues which effect them as much as the next guy threaten your freedoms again?

Allowing those who contribute to our nation to have a voice in how it operates is the basis of a democratic republic in the first place.

~Heff

Come to think of it..
This guy


Is a tea-party member too.

Anyway, consider this: the majority of us-those who elected Obama in-will also be out voting on the 2nd.
Cya there

See. the slippery slope.

Let them start on the small stuff first.

Plus the other item I mentioned about felons.

Plus, toss in the amensty factor...

Originally posted by anon72
See. the slippery slope.

Let them start on the small stuff first.

How about starting with the smallest thing first.....getting citizenship?????

reply to post by anon72


If I may, I would like to explain how none of these issues are dangers to American values, and actually reinforce those values.

-Taxpaying non-citizens want to vote-
Do you remember 'No taxation without representation'? Should a founding principle of the Republic be ignored because a legal resident hasn't been granted a citizenship yet? Isn't that denying someone their rights for a bureaucratic reason?

-Felons voting-
Felons should have the right to vote, the same as anyone else. They should not be allowed to vote from prison, perhaps, but once they have paid their debt to society (As Dr. Venture said) they should be regarded as citizens again. To treat them otherwise would trample over the ex-con's inalienable rights.

-Illegal aliens canvassing for votes-
This is really no worse than corporate persons lobbying Congress - neither illegal immigrants nor corporations have voting rights in America, but they voice their opinions in the hope that those sympathetic to their causes will stand up and be counted.

Supporting these changes means supporting the universal claims about human rights made by the founding fathers. Excluding them means turning America, and democracy more generally, into an exclusive club that only applies those universal rights to its members. It's really a debate between which vision of America is better; the beacon of Democracy to the world, or the corporate entity.

reply to post by lordtyp0


misleading, hysterical headlines should be sent to skunkworks.

it fills the forum with crap.
lets have some effing standards.

How about upgrading our services members chances of actually getting their votes counted before we worry about NON-citizens and felons?

we are a nation of laws

if your are not a legal citizen YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOTE
if you are a felon that meant you violated the laws of this nation and YOU forfeited your right to vote ( you dont get your right back after your murdered,raped and robbed citizens on this country) this shows the desperation of the left

law breakers get rewarded NO!!

a us citizen legal citizens followed the law to the letter every single day in america for all of their lives.

noncitizen is the same thing as illegal.

legal votes illegal get deported thats the way it suppose to work and yet nope it doesnt.

all this shows the desperation of the left.

As long as they are allowed to contribute to our society they should be allowed to vote, simple as that really.

GET OUT AND VOTE for some real change (Get These Bums out of office NOW).

Don't worry I plan on doing that, I will be voting the real bumbs out of office.

reply to post by SmedleyBurlap

-Taxpaying non-citizens want to vote-
Do you remember 'No taxation without representation'? Should a founding principle of the Republic be ignored because a legal resident hasn't been granted a citizenship yet? Isn't that denying someone their rights for a bureaucratic reason?

I half agree with you.. I admit I don't know the exact process that one does to become a "legal resident", I know I work with a guy who's a "legal resident" from the Philippines, we were actually talking about local elections the other day (or more like venting how much we hate political ads, signs, and radio commercials lol) but if a "legal resident" lives in an area for a certain number of years (lets say 3 years) then he or she should, imo, be allowed to vote in LOCAL elections. He's a resident of the city or town and policies directly effect his way of life, and that of his family, he deserves representation through vote.

-Felons voting- Felons should have the right to vote, the same as anyone else. They should not be allowed to vote from prison, perhaps, but once they have paid their debt to society (As Dr. Venture said) they should be regarded as citizens again. To treat them otherwise would trample over the ex-con's inalienable rights.

After time served a Felon should be allowed to vote, I agree. Not while in prison however. By not allowing them to vote, as you said, it sort of degrades them into sub-human entities.. and not all felons are rapist and murderers.. they would be the minority by far.

-Illegal aliens canvassing for votes-

The political party that hired them should be forced to pay the Federal designated fine for hiring an illegal alien, the manager who hired them should be fined and face the suggested time in prison for his actions.

Illegal aliens are not the same as Legal Residents, or even documented Visa holders.. they are criminals and degenerates and deserve little to no sympathy for their actions. to treat them otherwise is a slap in the face to all those hard working people who immigrate to this country legally, who put up with our ridiculous red tape and paperwork.

Why not? We've let corporations steal the right to vote. Might as well let everybody else in on the action.

Originally posted by neo96
we are a nation of laws
if your are not a legal citizen YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOTE

Well sir, there is no "right" to vote. Voting laws, except for the the 15th, 19th, 24th and 26th Amendments of the United States Constitution, are dictated by the States.

If a State, or even a municipality wish to set their standards to allow residents, citizen or non to vote, then it is their 10th Amendment right to do so.

reply to post by Rockpuck

After time served a Felon should be allowed to vote, I agree.

a quick question:

had the thought occurred to you and the readers of this thread ever thought about the statistics of felons?

felons well the majority of felons are minority groups and the majority of minorities side with the left in america.

now would the left really fight for the voting rights of any right winger minority??

we all have seen how the left treats the teaparty a right wing minority group and the left thinks they shouldnt have the right to vote.

reply to post by ownbestenemy


well you shot me down cant argue but:

states call all the way exception ...."as long as the qualifications that do not conflict with anything in the constitution..."

if your a felon and you murdered,robed you have taken away someones property rights and their rights to life liberty an the pursuit of happiness.

if you are not a legal citizen of this country you came here and broke this countries law and they have taken away their propetry rights and their rights to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

actions that are clearly conflicting with the us constitution.

reply to post by neo96


That thought probably has occurred, but in the minds of most people here, voting democrat is not grounds for denying rights.

Maybe if the Republican party didn't advertise itself as 'hard on crime' (read: sending anybody they can to prisons, to maintain a supply of cheap labour to industry) it would have more support from felons!

edit: Not that the GOP isn't already propped up by criminals, zing

reply to post by neo96


Allowing a felon to vote in no way goes against anything in the Constitution. Show me where in that document it specifically bars a felon from voting. Those laws are legislated at the state and local levels.

The 14th Amendment explicitly reaffirms to the states their rights, as gained from the 10th Amendment their ability to decide voting requirements. As long as those requirements do not overstep the stated amendments from my previous post.

If a state wishes to allow a felon the ability to vote, it has every right to do so.

Nothing in the Constitution bars a felon to vote.

reply to post by ownbestenemy


lets take joe bob for example

joe bob was a radical left or right winger who planned plotted and executed his ideals to overthrow a local government and ended up killing several dozen citizens then joe bob turned his sights on a higher cause and sought to kill a senator and the president of this country and his path he broke state laws and federal laws along the way.

finally the he was caught and convicted and had his due process and his jury of peers sided with him and he serves his time with just a short stint in prison without the death penalty.

then one day the state where joe bob lives decides hey joe bob your going to get your right back to vote

does that felon deserve his rights or rights that the state deemed he could have. no

i see what your saying i am merely expressing my opinion that a felon and an illegal should not have the right to vote.

people who obey the laws of the state and the federal government should get that "right" people who break it should not.

Originally posted by neo96
if your a felon and you murdered,robed you have taken away someones property rights and their rights to life liberty an the pursuit of happiness.

if you are not a legal citizen of this country you came here and broke this countries law and they have taken away their propetry rights and their rights to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Two things you are leaving out. One you can be convicted of a felony without infringing on anyone elses rights. Of course not murderers, thieves and rapists but there are those who are convicted felons who have not done anything to anyone. Posession of different things come to mind.

Number two is the idea that noncitizens are illegals. There are many legal immigrants in the US that are not citizens. Some are on work visas, others on student visas but the ones that would probably get the chance to vote are Permanent Resident Aliens (those with greencards). These are not citizens but are legal.

Plus they pay into the system just like citizens.

Taxation of Resident Aliens

A resident alien's income is generally subject to tax in the same manner as a U.S. citizen. If you are a resident alien, you must report all interest, dividends, wages, or other compensation for services, income from rental property or royalties, and other types of income on your U.S. tax return. You must report these amounts whether from sources within or outside the United States.