There has to be some TORTURE situations that are JUSTIFIED

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by Jobeycool

 

You mean the non existant ghost CIA group that people still think exists?

You do nothing.

As for the religious extremists, I don't have the right to say whether they deserve to live or die. I do however, have the moral authority and common sense to know that they should not be tortured.

~Keeper

How many times do I have to say you do not torture captured enemies..How many times must I say it will happen anyways in war.Dealing with hundreds of thousands of men or tens of thousands.Not right but it will happen anyways is what I am saying.Never right to torture but it happens anyways in wars.Not even in the United States rules of engagement to torture people and yet it still happens is what I am telling you.

reply to post by Jobeycool


It probably will. But it shouldn't. And we as citizens are responsible if we don't stand up and be the change we want to see.

~Keeper

Same stuff would have went on in WW2 with Germany and Japan,we think this stuff is something knew.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by Jobeycool

 

It probably will. But it shouldn't. And we as citizens are responsible if we don't stand up and be the change we want to see.

~Keeper

I agree with you buddy..At all cost do not torture anyone..Just war turns into madness.

put the uncontrollable mad dog to sleep. lethal injection, hanging, a bullet in the head, no torture, right? A quick death and to feel no pain. right?

Lets make this sweet and short.You want answers for the deaths of your loved ones.

Torture does not provide accurate information. Under excruciating pain a man will say anything to make it stop.

Putting that issue aside I think you have to be responsible for your own actions. Excusing yourself for torturing someone because of what he did(no matter how evil or unjust) lowers you down to his level. I just can't condone torturing another human being. I don't care what they have done.

There are proper legal channels to deal with crimes. In my view torture can never be justified.

someone is drilling into your head slowly with a carbide tip, or is stripping bacon from your back with a gillette razor while asking you where osama is.

guess what your answer will be, whether u know where osama is or not; the first thing that pops into your mind to make them stop.

the truth is torture is a form of punishment rather than a reliable technique. it's more of a terror technique used to keep the people in line and to strike fear into your enemies. that's why its favored with dictators and repressive regimes.

so i guess the u.s. qualifies.

but torture can be used to confirm what you already know, but then so can a million dollars.

Who cares about accurate information.You need answers.
Your going to get it.
The rest depends on you.
If your in the hot seat how much do like your fingers?
Sing baby sing.

reply to post by space cadet


Well said.

2nd line.

reply to post by lifeform11


you missed his point entirely.

2nd line.

Originally posted by Faiol

Originally posted by MoreFunky85
reply to post by oozyism

 

Im talking about Bin Laden and legitimate terrorists. I dont agree with the torture of innocents.

who are you to tell who is or isnt a terrorist

and

who are you to tell us what a terrorist is

anyone could be a terrorist, even you ...

Those we perceive as 'terrorists' are perceived by others as heros fighting against foreign oppressors and economical tyranny.

There is no end to violence with this rationale, because each side feels their actions are justified.

Originally posted by Jobeycool
This stuff is the same exact identical thing they did wwith Adolf Hitler.WW1 to much violence lets end the war and make peace with a lunatic in power.Ends up being 1000 times worse war.They barginaed peace deals with Hitler to end WW1.

They weren't looking for peace, they wanted to create the war so the Zionists had the excuse they needed to demand to be given back the biblical country of Israel. When they had achieved their goal (the alleged holocaust), and made millions the war was ended.

Originally posted by Jobeycool
Same stuff would have went on in WW2 with Germany and Japan,we think this stuff is something knew.

No-one ever said torture was used for the first time in Iraq. The fact that it is not new doesn't make at any more right, though.

Originally posted by MoreFunky85
While Iraq in my own opinion was a major mistake to occupy, we should have been more focused on finding Bin Laden and others. There are countries in the middle east we have spent billions of dollars on in aid so the people over there can eat, and try to make a decent life for themselves, and they still want to cut our heads off. I mean no disrespect in this post, I just want some other ATSers to possibly help me understand this whole thing. Please.

Why most Middle East countries have a...low opinion of Western nations is simple. Western Imperialistic powers have been encroaching on the so called human rights of the populace and plundering the resources of the Middle East since Great Britain and Russia played their Great Game. The players have changed over the years but one undeniable fact is that the players have all been from Western Civilization.

You make it sound like Western countries are innocent of any wrongdoing and are attacked unjustly by "terrorists". That is not the truth. "Hostile" Middle East nations see their actions as defensive in nature. They cannot fight in conventional wars and so resort to tactics that are common in Asymmetrical Warfare. I do not agree with some of the values and cultural norms of Islamic countries. However, I do believe that those countries are trying to defend their way of life from hostile powers.

Also, I am opposed in every way to Islamic countries forcing their beliefs on other nations. It is no different at all from Western Imperialism.

In regards to your torture question. It is a technique that has been used for a very long time and no amount of "Human Rights" issues will prevent it. If a faction feels they need to engage in the practice for what they consider valuable information, they will.

Originally posted by MoreFunky85
I'm sure I'm going to make some people angry with this post but so be it. First I would like to say that I do believe in human rights, and this is all theoretical what I am saying. If we (the United States) actually found Osama Bin Laden should we be "caring and considerate" of his needs while he is being detained?


I disagree. We either have principles or we do not. "Almost" is for horseshoes and other such games. Torture is only for those who are morally bankrupt.

tt

I care not how anyone tries to slice it but torture of any kind is wrong as the ends do not justify the means. Let us not also forget that any US officer caught engaging in torture is a violation of both domestic and international law as well as a dozen or so global treaties.

Only the animals of society will find pleasure in the torturing of others. Whoever thinks that torture is justified seriously has mental issues and needs psychiatric help.

During WWII there was this military base in either Maryland or Virginia that housed a Japanese interment camp whereas when the guards treated the inmates like people with decency, humanity and compassion the DoD realized that they could get more concrete information as opposed to torture, To torture someone after a few hours the person's vitals shut down and lock up thus rendering the target useless and let us not also forget that once it comes out during trial that someone was subjected to torture that alone can and will get any and all charges against the person erased hence why those people that were slated to be tried in Lower Manhattan will never see the inside of a courtroom.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


Blah! I tell you what any one subjects your loved ones to pain you will compensate.If not your what?

Lets give them cheese and milk till they tell us were the body is.
I think not.

Torture
...any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him, or a third person, information.


To justify means to validate a statement with evidence

a : to prove or show to be just, right, or REASONABLE

According to these definitions which are not my own, EVERY instance of torture is justified. And every future instance of torture is justified.

Because the threshold of what is reasonable, just and right differ from person to person.

Now, wether its right , wrong or indifferent Im not going to comment because that wasnt the question.

ALL torture situations are justified by the torturer or they wouldnt be doing it.