Anyone still believe in global warming?

If not should Al Gore give back his nobel prize? Last winter was pretty cold if you ask me. Hoping this one will be too.

reply to post by dementedtheclown


Anyone with even the slightest understanding of science "believes" global warming is real. Those who attempt to mis characterize and or troll on it imply that one's belief is in some way affecting of reality. Facts do not need belief. People will be screaming it isn't real even while its all going down in flames.

Welcome.

reply to post by dementedtheclown

Last winter was pretty cold if you ask me

Are you being for real?? Is this the best peace of scientific evidence, you could muster, to warrant starting a thread on such an important topic... "Last winter was pretty cold if you ask me"

WOW... just WOW

One thing I do not believe is that less than one percent of the atmosphere (CO2 at 383 parts per million) could have such a huge effect on the rest of the atmosphere, having been googling this subject for years, and printing of the results of my searches, there are just too many other 'causes' volcanic activity up 300% in the last 2,000 years, the Earth's periodic tilt towards the sun, gamma rays, Methane gas, water vapour, orbit straying, the list goes on.
Okay, the Earth is/is not/might be warming up, I just do not accept so little gas can have so much effect! (CO2 at 383 parts per million)
As for cold winters, Norway reports the coldest summer on record! and snow in southern Brazil, what's that about?
A lot of my serches involves posts on ATS.com, just to plug my favourite site.

reply to post by pikestaff


Again, belief is irrelevant. To illustrate: how much of a PPM change in your biochemistry does it take to kill you-of pretty much any chemical?

Additionally: First phase predictions is oceanic temperature rise. This would cause landmasses to experience colder periods because the warm ocean air rising displaces the cold air, and forces it down over the land. Until the atmosphere warms enough that it offsets. The pattern would then be: Coasts begin to raise in temperature followed by an inland creep.

No its all about George Soros,Warren Buffet et al making a motza out of a global carbon trading ponzi scheme or as a wise man once said,"its all about the money".

I don't know if global warming is real or not. But with the email scandal and government's trying to cash in on the issue plus the media's blatant propaganda I've become skeptical about the whole issue.

I for one would like the planet to be a lot colder. I propose a lot of iron ore powder be dumped into the world's oceans. Then that would cause a chain of events that I believe would cause global cooling like we haven't seen before. Plus I believe it might reduce the acidity of the ocean as a lot of the carbon dioxide was removed due to tremendous plant growth. Several of the planets in our solar system have been undergoing a warm spell. It's a natural cycle. Some argue that mankind is making things a whole lot worse. I believe having a healthy economy and not taxing the people like crazy is more important. People need money to buy more fuel efficient vehicles. They need money to buy more expensive greener products in the grocery store. Adding lots of costs via government laws will make things worse in my opinion. One day there might be someone who takes a few barges of iron ore powder and causes global cooling all by themselves. Then we won't have to worry about the planet getting too warm for a while. That would really upset all those who want to collect money via taxes to stop climate change.

Originally posted by pikestaff
One thing I do not believe is that less than one percent of the atmosphere (CO2 at 383 parts per million) could have such a huge effect on the rest of the atmosphere, having been googling this subject for years, and printing of the results of my searches, there are just too many other 'causes' volcanic activity up 300% in the last 2,000 years, the Earth's periodic tilt towards the sun, gamma rays, Methane gas, water vapour, orbit straying, the list goes on.
Okay, the Earth is/is not/might be warming up, I just do not accept so little gas can have so much effect! (CO2 at 383 parts per million)
As for cold winters, Norway reports the coldest summer on record! and snow in southern Brazil, what's that about?
A lot of my serches involves posts on ATS.com, just to plug my favourite site.

The thing i find most difficult when discussing this entire issue is the amount of people who rely on bad science which they have read on websites they have googled. I mean no offence regarding your research... but ATS, although a great site, is not the best source of scientific data... To many people with agenda driven science and links to unknown or un-reputable websites!!

A prime example of this was when i had a discussion regarding Volcano’s and CO2... Someone on ATS posted that Volcano’s produce millions of tons more CO2 than humans every year. They also said that Humans entire historic output of CO2, since the industrial revolution, was less than 1 years worth of Volcanic CO2 emissions.

I explained that, even if this were true (which it’s not) it would be classed as natural emissions which the planet is able to soak up through the oceans and forests and it is the unnatural net surplus from humans that is the problem.
I then went on to provide links and quotes from the US Geological Survey website which clearer stated that Humans produce FAR more CO2 the Volcano’s (about 130 times more annually)

The reply...

"the US Geological Survey is in on the scam and its all conspiracy to control us” blah blah blah

I was then provided links to some dodgy website with flashing borders, 200 pop ups a second, and adverts for penis enhancements!!! After scrolling past the junk i found the poorly written peace that had been plagiarised from someone’s blog about how volcano’s produce more CO2 than humans!!!

If people choose to believe the hogwash of a delusional bedroom amateurs over that of organised well constructed science then what is the point of even arguing.

One of the reasons that i don’t often argue about this on ATS anymore...

In this thread, Carbon cultists argue semantics, imply that OP does not know the earth can warm.

*Amirite OP?

I feel the urge of posting my 2 cents on topic, So...

Hi there.

First I must say that I'm highly skeptical about man made emissions of Co 2 for being responsible for our changing climate. The extremely tiny percentage of Co 2 in our atmosphere that would be responsible for such massive change is IMO ridiculous.

The money scam where plans have been made to basically tax us for breathing, are IMO an act of war to the public.
It just baffles me how the public gets charged for emissions made by industries and corporate businesses, which will nowhere near feeling the the effects of a carbon tax. Not to mention that any tax simply gets redirected on the public anyway.

I'm no money pig.... Are you ?

A few reasons for my current opinion :

1. Ice core data shows that on several occasions in the past, Co 2 increase came after a temperature increase.

This is an issue that is often misunderstood in the public sphere and media, so it is worth spending some time to explain it and clarify it. At least three careful ice core studies have shown that Co 2 starts to rise about 800 years (600-1000 years) after Antarctic temperature during glacial terminations. These terminations are pronounced warming periods that mark the ends of the ice ages that happen every 100,000 years or so.

Source :

Does this proof Co 2 is not responsible ? No.What is does proof is that Co 2 isn't the only source of climate warming around.

Since we just snapped out of a little ice age from a couple of centuries ago. The rise of Co 2 could be an effect of the warming up.

2. The primary green house gas of our planet is water vapor.

Everything in our climate is greatly influenced by water vapor. Ever noticed that it is warmer on a cloudy night, where it would freeze when the sky is clear ?

Any warming would result in more water vapor which would be a catalyst for even more warmth staying around.

Weird thing is that I understand the ocean temperatures have not been rising for at least the last decade and that they are even cooling. ( Just a little )

There is evidence for cosmic rays influence on cloud forming.. Enough to start a study, based at CERN ( Same guys as the large hadron collider ).

Everything you want to know about The CLOUD project is in here . I just posted the thread last week.

Don't get your hopes up. It's a study in progress.

3. There are more potent green house gases out there which are not getting the same attention.

Methane.
Which is trapped within massive amounts of so called "sea ice" or methane clathrate. This stuff can violently explode and the methane escapes its icy prison and gets released in the atmosphere.

Source :

Nitrous oxide.

Thawing permafrost can release nitrous oxide, also known as laughing gas, a contributor to climate change that has been largely overlooked in the Arctic, a study showed on Sunday.

Source :

Both gases are nowhere near the same amount of Co2 that gets released by mans hand, but have much more effect at smaller concentrations. The fact is that nature has these gases trapped within the earth in unimaginable large amounts ready to gets released in the atmosphere in the blink of an eye.

4.The solar cycle

The following link is a scientific work.

Reviews in Geophysics
Accepted April 2010
Solar influence on climate.

In short. They basically say that they do not know enough about the solar influence to be sure about anything, but they think the effect a currently under estimated. Go figure.

5.Co 2 is a natural gas, just like oxygen.

Trees breath Co 2 during the day. Well... everything with the ability to photosynthesize does. Once our plant was full of flora. We have destroyed a very big part of it. Maybe it's time to start planting again. Who knows ?

I hope the wealth of information I posted here is of your liking. Enjoy !

What I understand is that our climate is a chaotic build up of massive amounts of different stuff all interacting with each other.
We simply do not have a complete understanding of it and new studies and evidence keeps telling us that its not working as simple as they thought it did. Any blaming of Co 2 is IMO based on an incomplete understanding of our climate.
Measurements planned and ongoing for lowering Co 2 emissions are ridiculous. The actual Co 2 emitters are not grabbed by the balls.... The public is.

Of course you can blame the public for all the stuff they use and buy. IMO it is the system that lead us to our current materialism and it is the system that keeps us trapped in it. The system will not change with taxing carbon. We will pay so the system can keep doing what it does for an extend period of time, while in the meantime getting rich, and we ( the public ) are kept at ease. We will have no time to rebel cause we are to busy working our butts of, paying our bills.

At the same time all of the above is happening we could very well be thrown back into an ice age.

Ice age now.

The fact is that our steady climate which has benefited us for so long... Well, it isn't the norm as we always thought it was. With the switch of a button our climate can change and has changed in the past.

I'm not saying the climate change is man made or that it isn't man made. We simply don't know for sure.

I think that it is our duty to live our lives with the environment in mind. I think this doesn't have anything to do with carbon emissions or whatever. Problems can only be dealt with when you start with the roots. It is very simply. If we use and demand less, and when we use we do so with respects to our home, our planet. We will be fine.

Change starts with you !

PS
Did you know that a source of green energy is a fraud ?

Windmills or entire parks of it are backed up by old fashion Cole plants for when it doesn't wind outside.
They are kept burning permanent. Because they are on stand by most of the time they do not get as hot as they would normally do, resulting in less pollutants getting burned that will end up in the atmosphere.

China's Wind Farms Come With a Catch: Coal Plants

What do you think ? China would be different from the west ?

China is because of their recent developing economy introducing already advanced technologies.
This means they often use the newest and most modern stuff, while we are using the old and faulty stuff that lead to the newest techniques. Go figure

~Sinter

reply to post by lordtyp0

To illustrate: how much of a PPM change in your biochemistry does it take to kill you-of pretty much any chemical?

The fact that a very small amount of chemical can kill you has nothing to do with the mechanism of warming. There is 1 molecule of CO2 per 2600 others homogeneously spread throughout the atmosphere. 10mg of a chemical like Morphine, for instance, provides sufficient molecules for the comparatively smaller number of receptors in the medulla that are needed to be blocked and is already considered a largish dose. I don't see or understand the scientific principle that allows 1 molecule of CO2 to heat up 2600 molecules around it to cause significant warming. Each molecule would have to be heated to hundreds of degrees to create sufficient energy transfer. It's analogous to heating up one grain of rice and using that single grain to heat up 2600 others. It baffles my mind.

entire historic output of CO2, since the industrial revolution, was less than 1 years worth of Volcanic CO2 emissions.

That presumably doesn't include all of the underwater volcanoes which we can't monitor?

Anyone with even the slightest understanding of science "believes" global warming is real.

I guess scientists like Richard Lindzen, Svensmark, Paltridge, Douglass, Spencer, David Archibald, as well as 800 international scientists according to the US Senate Minority Report haven't got "even the slightest understanding of science?"

Okay, the Earth is/is not/might be warming up, I just do not accept so little gas can have so much effect! (CO2 at 383 parts per million).

It depends what time-frame you pick. The Earth has been warming for the last 300 years since the LIA - long before we started heavy industrialization. Though it's been cooling for 3,000-4,000 years since the Holocene Maximum. Anyway, I don't believe AGW. It reeks of Y2K. Once the Chicken-Little AGW scare story has passed, no doubt the bureaucrats will role out another manufactured scare story to encourage the public to part with more of their cash.

Global Warming is real? I mean why is our planet heating up and ice bergs are melting? HAARP or weather control? Nope! Global Warming!!

reply to post by Nathan-D

The fact that a very small amount of chemical can kill you has nothing to do with the mechanism of warming. There is 1 molecule of CO2 per 2600 others homogeneously spread throughout the atmosphere. 10mg of a chemical like Morphine, for instance, provides sufficient molecules for the comparatively smaller number of receptors in the medulla that are needed to be blocked and is already considered a largish dose. I don't see or understand the scientific principle that allows 1 molecule of CO2 to heat up 2600 molecules around it to cause significant warming. Each molecule would have to be heated to hundreds of degrees to create sufficient energy transfer. It's analogous to heating up one grain of rice and using that single grain to heat up 2600 others. It baffles my mind.

Sweet ! As I said before everything interacts with each other.

Like one differnt thing can totally result in another outcome.

Your Morphine explanation is a perfect example of that.

If you get stabbed by a platypus no amount of morphine will take away the pain.

Originally posted by anglodemonicmatrix
No its all about George Soros,Warren Buffet et al making a motza out of a global carbon trading ponzi scheme or as a wise man once said,"its all about the money".

Yeah. I guess this is why Warren Buffet was listed at #1 on Rolling Stones tab of the most prevalent people trying to deny climate change.

Despite being a key adviser to Obama during the financial crisis, America's best-known investor has been blasting the president's push to curb global warming — using the same lying points promoted by far-right Republicans. The climate bill passed by the House, Buffett insists, is a "huge tax — and there's no sense calling it anything else." What's more, he says, the measure would mean "very poor people are going to pay a lot more money for their electricity." Never mind that the climate bill, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, would actually save Americans with the lowest incomes about $40 a year.

Follow the money blah blah blah.

Instead of just saying "follow the money" like every other pre-programmed robot on the interwebs - how about you try some critical, independent thinking and: actually follow it

Did you know that a source of green energy is a fraud ?

Windmills or entire parks of it are backed up by old fashion Cole plants for when it doesn't wind outside.
They are kept burning permanent. Because they are on stand by most of the time they do not get as hot as they would normally do, resulting in less pollutants getting burned that will end up in the atmosphere.

Sinter - I answered your questions in the other thread but you didn't add this part before. This statement is ridiculous. Coal and Natural Gas plants when they are not running at full load are ALWAYS running on some kind of spinning reserve so they can be ramped up to meet the demands of a variable power grid.

There are many ideas and plans in place to phase out coal and NG all together and provide a means for renewables like wind and solar to provide energy 24-7, even when the wind is not blowing or the sun isn't shining.

This involves many things from implementing hydro reservoirs to something called compressed air energy storage to using a grid of plugged in electric vehicles.

The problem is these solutions need to be implemented FIRST. But all the rich old white men who have all their money tied up in the status quo - in coal and natural gas and oil - are doing their best to prevent this from happening - which is where all the denial over global warming is coming from.


Here's more info on how an entire renewable infrastructure is supposed to work:

I've lived in Florida almost all my life, it snowed last winter. Was first time it ever snowed in the part of Florida I live in, that I've seen.

reply to post by mc_squared


Hi I kind of replied in this thread before the other one. I did not feel this belonged in the other thread.

Thank you again

Originally posted by dementedtheclown
I've lived in Florida almost all my life, it snowed last winter. Was first time it ever snowed in the part of Florida I live in, that I've seen.

Snow in Florida means that weather is getting freakin' crazier, it does not mean that global temperatures are dropping. This year (2010) is likely to be the HOTTEST YEAR ON RECORD. The past decade was THE HOTTEST DECADE ON RECORD. And the top hottest years on record have all been within the past 12 years.

Global warming is an increase in GLOBAL average temperatures. When this happens, CLIMATES change, which means that local climates that are more or less stable for decades/centuries start to change fundamentally. When climates change, then WEATHER changes and becomes erratic. I.e. the flooding we've seen, forest fires, mega-hurricanes, heat waves, record snow/rain, record droughts in other areas, and even snow in crazy places. The weather is very brief/erratic whereas climate is long-term. When we [snip] with climate, the weather reflects this even more erratically... Capice??

reply to post by dementedtheclown


believe in it, but think very little of it is man made. al gore can keep his prize. giving it back would only give him honor, which is about the one thing he lacks in life. it doesn't bother me to see him without it.