BB/Pellet Guns for Survival? You betcha...

reply to post by RUFFREADY

Sounds like you're having fun. Watch out for ricochets. You only get one set of eyes.

Originally posted by Skid Mark
reply to post by RUFFREADY

 

Sounds like you're having fun. Watch out for ricochets. You only get one set of eyes.

OMG when I read your post, I thought of this:

reply to post by HomerinNC


Lol that's what I was thinking of.

reply to post by Skid Mark


LOL skid I had a feeling...GMTA yanno?
you need to join us in the ATS Chat

Hehe...just to reiterate, I wasn't suggesting it as an ONLY weapon, just as possibly a quieter option than a standard firearm, for when you need to not be as loud as a gunshot.

Admittedly, there are some air rifles, etc. that are just as loud as small firearms, and yes, I'm only talking about using for small game (not zombie hunting, or even scaring off other two-legged threats)....

I can see an air rifle as a viable survival tool where availability of ammo was low or non-existent for a fire arm. The stealth side is debatable. To use an air rifle quiet enough to be "stealthy" it is going to also be "wimpy" The loud crack comes from expanding gas just like a firearm. A quiet crack comes from less powerful expansion. As far as ammo availability you could stock pile tens of thousands of rounds of .177 pellets, and BBs fairly easily, and inexpensively. So the Pros to me are extremely small storage space for ammo. Fairly quiet, and can be powerful enough to take small game. The Cons are that it is not silent, and not a viable self defense weapon. Most powerful air guns are also single shot.

I am holding in my left hand a Ruger 597 with the heavy barrel, scope, and fancy cool laminated thumbhole stock. In my right an old Crossman pump air rifle. The Crossman is only a little bit lighter than the Ruger anecdotally. Also take into account the Ruger has a magazine with 30 rounds in it, and the Crossman has only 1 pellet in it.

The Ruger is firing CCI Stingers, and I have chrono'd them at ~1550fps they are 36gr hollow point. No mistaking that the .22 is louder than the air rifle by a considerable margin with these hot loads, but the air rifle is only producing ~600fps with 12 pumps. It gets mighty hard to pump after about 8, and I'm not a small guy. I'm not sure what the pellets weigh, but I'm going to guess 10-12gr. I can hardly hear the pellets impact my backstop, however the .22s make a gratifying thump. The water-in-a-beer-can test results in no water jumping up out of the can when shot with a pellet(indicative of little energy transfer.) The .22s pop the water up about an inch and a half. For referrence a 9mm pops up about 5", a .45 ACP about 8", and .44 Mag. the can just explodes. You can guess my preferrence. This is a good indicator of hydrodstatic shock, or energy transfer. The ability of your projectile to tear stuff up around the area of impact, and not just in the path of travel. The pellet basically only does damage in its path of travel so shot placement would be tantamount. At least with the .22 you have a little splatter effect, not much but a little. The .22 also holds 30 rds, and It's a semi-auto action.

I can put 30 little chuncks of lead in a 3" hole at 50 yards in about 10 seconds with the 597 so it would be a viable self defense option at range. Even if you don't think a .22 round would do enough damage try taking 5 in your chest before you can say "Ow! stop!" So for a little more weight, a little more pack room(not much more I can fit 200 .22LRs in my cargo pocket.), and more sound you can have a weapon capable of taking small game, medium game, and even something a little bigger in a pinch. Plus if you miss with the first shot you have 29 more ready to go at the flick of the trigger.

I think I will stock up on some more .177 pellets though. The air rifle is not unviable it would just be my back up plan if I ran out of everything else. I wouldn't go hunting with it by choice if dinner depended on it unless I had no other choice. I think a .22 short, or a long in sub-sonic would not be much louder than the air rifle, but deliver more energy to the target.

I agree with the .22 as a main hunting weapon, but maybe I'm just not recalling right, but I certainly remember my pellet pistol being pretty quiet, and still hitting plenty hard enough to bring down small game. So when more silence is more of a requirement, that's what it'd be for.

Originally posted by Binder
A quiet crack comes from less powerful expansion.

OMG!!! Did I really write that!

I laughed til I nearly peed on myself when I read that again after coming back to it. Should have worded it different, pun not intended, but boy is it fun to laugh at yourself. Don't care who ya are GI humor is funny.

reply to post by Gazrok


Oh you are recalling correctly. I have popped many rabbits, birds, gophers, prairie dogs, grounds squirrels etc... with an air gun as a kid. It worked just fine. My Great Dane appreciated it too!!

I have changed my mind about the newer air rifles. I got a Gamo Silent Cat for christmas. This thing hits HARD. I got it mostly out of curiousity, but I really like it. The spring release seems a little loud if you are firing it, but take 3 steps away from someone else shooting it, and it is as quiet as a bow release. I had an older breakover air rifle that was as good as they had 10 years ago, and was considered powerful at the time. It has nothing on the Silent Cat. I was using an old camper shell for target practise. The old air rifle just left dents in it, but no penetration. The Gamo went all the way through it. I had to stop because I thought the shell would work as a backstop, and it didn't. The velocities are MUCH higher. The old gun would knock a soda can over when you shot it. The Gamo goes through so fast the can doesn't even move, but leaves a much bigger exit hole than the old rifle. I'm very impressed. The Gamo would easily take small game, and is a very viable survival weapon. I read a testimonial of a guy who took a Javalina(Pecary) with one! Those are mean little buggers, and they don't go down easy. Gamo even makes an air shotgun. I may have to look into that.

I find that they are a useful tool.
You can practice till you always drive the tack.

All the local hunters have one - for those jobs where a .22 is overkill.
pest control
small game
cheap fun

If you are familliar with the seals and other wearing parts and have spares, and use a pellet mold, you would get everyday use of a couple hundred bucks worth of gun for 50 years.

Benjamin Discoverys and Marauders are nice

I prefer the sling shot,only costing a few bucks,completely silent and the slugs are about 10x if not 20x the size of a bb.

i just got a factory-made SlingShot for my BOB. even simple air pellet plinkers become a law issue where i live

reply to post by miracleretiree


LOL! my post was much like yours. i owe you a beer!

reply to post by RUFFREADY


Sorry for your loss dude. Enjoy the hell out of yourself!

reply to post by Binder


I will have to consider one of those. Looks like they are available at Gander Mountain
too which is good. Checked their website and found this description:

www.gandermountain.com...

Question: I noticed several reviews indicating that they like this gun, but the scope/site off was noted on most of the reviews. Have you had that problem with your Gamo?

i have a few.. pneumatic multi-pump ones.. some rebuild kits too.. but, my thoughts are co2 or whatever gas the air rifles use wont be easy to get if shtf.. i also have a slingshot and a coffee can full of ball bearings..

bb and pellet guns are cool and all, but if the shhht hits the fan you're going to want a 22 or better.

the bigger pellet guns are heavier than 22s and are harder to hit things with, because they jump forwards

reply to post by manta78


I had a guy who is a gunsmith, and also likes to play with air guns help me out with it. I did have an issue with dialing in the scope at first. The scope feels light, and almost flimsy, but my friend assures me that it is made that way on purpose for use on an airgun. A regular rifle scope would get messed up real quick on a breakover air gun because, as was pointed out earlier, they do kick forward. The secret it seems is to align the kick lug on the rifle to the front of the hole in the scope, just opposite of what you would think, then when you tighten the pinch brackets don't over tighten them. It sounds counter-intuitive, but after doing it with mine I haven't had any issues since. The gun itself is VERY accurate. It has plenty of power to take anything smaller than say coyotes, or a medium sized dog. Large rodents would be easy pickin's. In an absolute "had to" situation if your shot placement was dead on you could use it for self defense, but re-load is a bit slow. If you shot an intruder with it they would definitely not be happy. I dare say threat of another shot might make them rethink their actions.

reply to post by ItsallCrazy


I hear you on that, got my sgc a while back and no hassles so far. I know someone with an FAC who was 'advised' to stop making videos on YT by his Firearms Enforcement Officer though

Here's the procedure for shot gun application