Revelation; The Trumpets- Battered Planet

page: 1
10
<<   2 >>

log in

join

posted on Oct, 10 2010 @ 04:28 PM
link   
I want to offer some thoughts on the sounding of the first four "trumpets" in Revelation ch8.
The effects are clearly devastating, and the consequences are long-lasting.

So I'm going to be asking the question; what do these trumpets mean for the planet?

In the context of the full story told by Revelation, the "seven trumpets" are what happens when God brings his power to bear on the destruction of the kingdom of the Beast. In that function, they're very closely associated with the "seven vials". These two sequences, the trumpets and the vials, are very similar, and they're sometimes regarded as duplicate versions of the same story. But the real clue to the relationship is that the state of the world after the seven vials is considerably worse than the state of the world after the trumpets. The most obvious example is the way the condition of the sea degenerates from "one-third blood" to "like the blood of a dead man, and every living thing died".

So I see the trumpets and the vials as the beginning and end points of the same set of events, with each trumpet/vial combination representing a different aspect of the process. On that basis, I feel entitled to cross-reference between the two sequences, and use them to throw light on each other.

The basic question can be broken down in three ways;
What causes these events?
What effect are they having?
What is their meaning?

I'm going to take these in reverse order- less logical, but more convenient.

What do they mean?

Symbolism pointing towards the Exodus

The main feature of the first trumpet is that hail and fire fall on the earth.
This matches one of the Exodus plagues;
"The Lord sent thunder and hail, and fire ran down to the earth"- Exodus ch9 v23
Similarly the main feature of the first vial is an outbreak of "foul and evil sores".
This matches another Exodus plague;
"It became boils breaking out in evil sores on man and beast"- Exodus ch9 v10

This suggests to me that the first item in each sequence is a kind of "signature", which has the purpose of pointing us towards the Exodus events.
The implication is that these events, too, are about the redemption of God's people.

Symbolism pointing towards Babylon

After the second trumpet, "something like a great mountain, burning with fire, was thrown down into the sea".
This is an echo of the warning Jeremiah gives to Babylon;
"Behold, I am against you, O destroying mountain (says the Lord)
which destroys the whole earth.
I will stretch out my hand against you
and roll you down from the crags
and make you a burnt mountain" - Jeremiah ch51 v25

This is pointing us towards the destruction of Babylon. The implication is that these events, too, are about the downfall of an idolatrous and oppressive power.

Symbolism pointing towards adultery

The star Wormwood has the effect of making the waters bitter and poisonous.
This is an echo of Jeremiah's warning to the people of Judah, who have
"..stubbornly followed their own hearts and gone after the Baals...Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will feed this people with wormwood and give them poisonous water to drink".- Jeremiah ch9 vv14-15.

Their behaviour is spiritual infidelity,and he's already called them adulterers. So perhaps we should recognise in this warning an oblique allusion to the ritual of the "water of bitterness", prescribed in Numbers ch5 as a way to test a wife suspected of adultery.
The implication is that these events, too, are chastising the infidelity of a people from whom the Lord expects loyalty.

What effect are they having?

Damage assessment.
The land; one-third of the earth, together with its vegetation, has been burnt up.
The sea; one third of the sea has become blood.
The rivers; one-third of the waters has become bitter.
The heavens; the sun, moon, and stars have lost a third of their brightness. This is really about the atmosphere, since the most "economical" way of achieving this effect would be the presence of something in the atmosphere blocking the light.

This is another instance of the "heaven, land, and sea" division of the world which keeps appearing in Revelation.
The overall effect of these trumpets is that all three regions have been spoiled and polluted.
Since the state of the rivers reflects the state of the land (as any enviromentalist can tell you), they can be counted as part of that region.
So the sequence of both trumpets and vials is effectively;
1) The "Exodus" signature.
2) The sea
3) The land (seen through the rivers)
4) The heavens

These look like different aspects of the same process. But if this process is really leading towards "became like the blood of a dead man" and the other effects of the seven vials, then it would be the kind of process which would ultimately render the earth uninhabitable.

What is the cause?

I've suggested that these events can be seen as different aspects of the same process.
This opens up the possiblilty that they are all different effects of the same cause, and I want to pursue the speculation along those lines.
Such a cause would have to be a large-scale event, something capable of having a massive and ultimately fatal impact upon the planet at large.
Modern science has introduced us to a number of possible candidates.
They include natural disasters, of the kind which might have caused the extinction of the dinosaurs- such as supervolcano eruptions and asteroid collisions.
They also include the destructive possibilities of human technology, such as nuclear war and the effects of industrial pollution.
I want to consider these possibilities, firstly, in terms of their potential ability to produce the effects descibed in this chapter. (I'll confine myself to those four options, partly because they seem the most plausible, and partly because I can't resist the symmetry of the presentation)

Supervolcano eruption

This would, of course, be a "burning mountain", almost literally.
No obvious reason (apart from possible location) why it should be "thrown into the sea".
Land and vegetation in the vicinity would be "burnt up".
Volcanic ash in the atmosphere could be blocking out the light, and the settlement of the ash would be responsible for poisoning the rivers and seas.
It is tempting to see the image of a volcano in the "smoke arising from the bottomless pit" in the next chapter.

Asteroid collision

Perhaps this would, even more literally, present the appearance of "a burning mountain thrown into the sea".
No obvious reason why much of the land should be "burnt up".
Debris from the impact would provide material in the atmosphere, with the same effect as before.

Nuclear war

The impact of the weapons themselves would be burning the land and vegetation.
The suggestion has been made that smoke and soot from large-scale fires would fill the atmosphere, with the same effect as before.
Another suggested side-effect is that the ozone-layer would be depleted on a global scale. This would account for the effect of the fourth vial, after which the sun "was allowed to scorch men with fire". The natural disasters don't really explain this feature.

Industrial pollution

This might not need to be a single large event, like the Gulf oil spill or the more recent chemical spill in Hungary.
In the long-term, the accumulating effects of many such events and neglectful practices could be enough, on their own, to spoil the land, pollute the atmosphere, poison the rivers, degenerate the oceans, and deplete the ozone layer. Hence many of the effects described in this chapter.
But the events in which "things fall down to the earth" would have to be regarded as symbolic.
And there is less obvious reason for the atmosphere of "crisis" implied in this chapter; the process seems a little slow-moving.


It isn't easy, on that basis, to identify a "most likely" candidate.
So another possible approach is to consider which one of them is most likely to happen first.
Which one would win the race?
I get the impression that supervolcano eruptions are very rare events, which would push that option low down the probability scale.
Astronomers take the chances of an asteroid collision more seriously, to the extent of watching the orbits of passing objects very carefully.
If the natural disasters were the only possibilities, nothing in Revelation would oblige us to expect a catastrophe in the near future.
But the possibility of human self-destruction brings a new factor into the equation.
Putting it bluntly, if Revelation prophecy is to be fulfilled at all, it must be fulfilled while the human race is still in existence.
Which means that the prophecies implied in this chapter would have to be fulfilled through the human capacities for self-destruction, unless there was a natural disaster which could move quickly enough to forestall them.
I don't recognise, in current politics, the atmosphere of "superpower confrontation" that I remember from the Cold War, so I'm not yet convinced by the excitable view that World War Three is on the horizon.
Industrial pollution differs from the other possibilities in that it does not require any new "event" to start it off; it only requires that existing trends should continue. So the gradual strangulation of the planet by the effects of human technology does rather look like the "default" option, the most likely outcome if nothing else intervenes first.

Apart from that last comment, I'm leaving the question open, without offering to make any precise prediction.




posted on Oct, 10 2010 @ 07:06 PM
link   
At the beginning of the OP, I said that the seven trumpets are what happens when God puts out his power against the Beast.
I would also regard them (in conjunction with the vials) as the instrument of
"the decreed end is poured out upon the desolator"- Daniel ch9 v27



posted on Oct, 10 2010 @ 10:47 PM
link   
Link to earlier thread on the "Four Horsemen";
Four Horsemen-running
edit on 10-10-2010 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 11 2010 @ 10:36 AM
link   
reply to post by DISRAELI
 
Disraeli,

It looks like the trumpets happen in parallel to the two witnesses of Rev. 11 to solidly ushur all men into one camp or the other, Yahweh's or Satans. It is in His great mercy that He continues to work to wake men up as He loves everyone even of the rebellious. Yes He even loves Satan, it's his ways that are disgusting and fires His Wrath. Satan and the fallen angels no doubt had their chance to return and have now set their own destiny but man can still return. We are the ones that dig our own eternity to everlasting life or eternal death.

I do believe the seals, horsemen started some time back and in the first He is seen on a white horse and states He goes out conquering and the second, the red horse could even be going back into the dark ages and then on into all the wars since. Sure has been no peace through all that time. The third, a black horse we see a measuring up like we saw in Rev.11:1. This takes my mind back to Dan. 8:14 and it is stated unto 2300 days and the Sanctuary will be cleansed. That prophecy is found to start 457 and can only mean one thing, This is When Christ goes into the Heavenly Sanctuary ( He is the High Priest ) and all the blood that has collected on the horns of the altar He goes over each case represented from Adam on and files them saved or lost file as we know His reward is with Him when He comes. He pleads His blood for each case that is saved as the blood of animals did not suffice but only pointed to His. We are now seeing the fourth seal coming on the horizon and it is not good, those are the four sore judgements of Eze. 14:21 and they well may be on what claims to be the church that is apostate.

A lot is due to happen and these last events are speeding up and can be seen coming and all should be looking watching and making their calling and election sure for the time is near at hand. I can see it, I can feel it, and should surely be seen by any serious ones. The final wake up call is calling to all.

Truthiron



posted on Oct, 11 2010 @ 10:42 AM
link   

Originally posted by truthiron
It looks like the trumpets happen in parallel to the two witnesses of Rev. 11 to solidly ushur all men into one camp or the other, Yahweh's or Satans.

Yes,indeed. This comes out more clearly in the next chapter, when he's talking about the first two woes.
But the witnesses are evidently part of the same period.
It's all about the call for repentance (but ch9 tells us that men don't repent)



posted on Oct, 11 2010 @ 06:32 PM
link   
reply to post by DISRAELI
 


Good thread as always, really enjoyed reading it, thanks for sharing your thoughts on it!!



posted on Oct, 12 2010 @ 04:26 PM
link   
reply to post by dthwraith
 


Thank you for your support.
The next two threads will probably be on the first two "woes".



posted on Nov, 14 2010 @ 01:44 AM
link   
reply to post by DISRAELI
 

As promised, I now attach a link to the more recent thread on "The first woe"
The first Woe



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 04:18 PM
link   
reply to post by DISRAELI
 

As promised above, I now add a link to my more recent thread on the second woe;

The Second Woe

edit on 10-2-2011 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 05:10 PM
link   
N.B. This series of threads on Revelation will be completed by the next in the series, which will cover the topic of the "New Jerusalem".



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 06:01 PM
link   
Given the imminent completion of this series on Revelation, I just want to advise anyone who may be interested that there will, in due course, be an Index thread, intended to help people navigate their way around the whole collection.



posted on Jul, 6 2011 @ 05:31 PM
link   
There is now an Index, covering all these Revelation threads, at this location;

Index of Revelation threads

This thread is numbered as #16 in the "order of chapters" list and Biblical reference index.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 02:35 PM
link   
Just to clarify;
Nothing in the OP is intended to suggest any particular prophetic significance in the year 2012 or the date 21/12/2012



posted on Jan, 22 2013 @ 09:06 AM
link   
reply to post by DISRAELI
 


Thanks for this wonderful post, OP! Very well thought out and you stick to Scripture so well.

In fact, you have written a very up to date and wise commentary on the events.

I feel sad about it all. I don't really want to witness all the degeneration and destruction, but I guess we cannot choose the times we have to live through!



posted on Jan, 22 2013 @ 09:08 AM
link   
reply to post by Revolution9
 

Thank you for those comments.
There's a whole series of these threads covering Revelation, so you may be interested in the others,
I've got them indexed in the "Revelation; Project complete" thread.



posted on Jan, 22 2013 @ 09:38 AM
link   

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by Revolution9
 

Thank you for those comments.
There's a whole series of these threads covering Revelation, so you may be interested in the others,
I've got them indexed in the "Revelation; Project complete" thread.



Thanks!

I will be very interested to read!

The first time I read Revelation and The Books of Enoch I could not understand them one bit. Now I am beginning to understand them all too well!

You, too, for sure!

A lot of people think that Christians want that to happen!!! I don't! I am just human and I hate the idea of it.

Yet, I trust GOD and when it happens it will be righteous and I am sure necessary to prevent the whole world being totally demolished forever! Got to be cruel to be kind!

I wonder if now people will realise how BIG was Adam and Eve's sin??? It was that BIG it made it necessary for God to bring the flood, to knowingly send His Son to earth to be treated so shamefully by us, all the horrors perpetrated by Sin, Murder and Lies, and finally a third of earthly creation must burn for our sins!

Oh well, at least things get better after that



posted on Jan, 22 2013 @ 10:45 AM
link   
Disraeli,

Your research is exceptional, you have done a fine job using logic, history, scripture and sycrocity to a degree very few can match. Thank you for your time in compiling so many threads about the end of this age, the age of mankind's self rule under the influence of Satan.

I will now share with you the true spiritual understanding that must come from God through God's prophets, for without the spiritual understanding Revelation cannot be known to man.

The first 4 trumpets are set apart from the last three because they focus primarily on the desruction of the physical decendants of Israel (Ephraim and Mennessah "let my name be on the lads"..., not Judah) and the physical nations they dwell in to this day. In God's mercy he judges his physical people first, because they received the blessings of Abraham in time, they received the greatest land and prosperity in history, only to allow sin and greed to bring about the destruction of all civilization.

Ephraim = UK
Mennessah = USA

In those two nations all of the blessings of Abraham were received begining after Napolean fell, when the time had come for God to fulfill His promise made to Abraham so long ago.

The first 4 trumpets bring about the destruction of primarily the USA, but also the British Commonwealth nations (UK, Canada, Australia, NZ). They work together and in conjuction with one another.

Before we get into scripture I wanted to point out a few spiritual => physical metaphors God has used throughout scripture in varias books in the Bible.

Star = Angelic being (the star of bethlaham was an angel directing the wise men)
Mountain = large governments, powerful nations
Island = small government, weaker nations.
Sea/waters = multitude of mankind, people as a whole.
green grass/trees = economy, money, prosperity.

In each trumpet, the primary way of understanding is spiritual, for Revelation is a spiritual book and requires God's Holy Spirit to understand.

1st trumpet = global economic destruction, begining and as a result of the USA. This trumpet continues throughout all 6 remaining trumpets, it is the cause of the remaining trumpets to sound (it began at the end of 2008).

2nd Trumpet = The "mountain" (large government) "on fire" (angry) is "cast down" (falling from promenince) into the "sea" (multitude of mankind). As a result of an event in the planning (USA simultaneous multiple port city terrorist strike), 1/3rd of the ships and creatures will die in those waters effected by this event. The result of this event is the mountain (USA) on fire cast down into the sea.

3rd Trumpet = Satan the "star from heaven" (notice the word used is the third heaven i.e. spiritual realm, rather then the word for second heaven i.e. outer space), this is your clue that the star is not extraterrestrial, but extradimentional. That "made the waters (multitude of people) bitter (angry)". Here we have Satan causing people to turn on each other and kill each other because he has influenced mankind to become angry. "many died because the waters (people) were made bitter (angry)" by the "star" (angelic being Satan) that "fell" (loose power) from the third Heaven (spiritual realm).

4th Trumpet = The details of this trumpet have been witheld from God's two witnesses (prophets) so I cannot comment on this event at this time, but as a result of this trumpet sounding the US/UK/Canada/Australia/NZ will no longer be able to govern themselves and a power vacuum is created in the world as a result of physical Israel being judged by Almighty God unto their destructive end.

This power vacuum fuels the 5th (rise of 10 European Nations + Vatican = BEAST) trumpet and 6th (Russia/China alliance = DRAGON) trumpet to innitiate WW3. WW3 is a battle between a united Europe and the China/Russia alliance for global dominance after physical Israel (USA/UK) has been destroyed as nations.

2/3rds of mankind will die during that war to come.

The 7th trumpet is God saving mankind from themselves. Our nature is such that during WW3 after several rounds of nuclear weapons have been utilized, it come to the tipping point, where even one more nuke would cause irrepairable ecosystem wide damage (extinction level) and even knowing this information the loosing side will be willing to "push the button" anyway. It is at that exact moment in time (as the sun is setting about to begin the High Holy Day of Pentecost 2013) that Jesus Christ and the 144,000 resurrected members of the Kingdom of God return to the Earth, stop mankind from self annihilation, destroy the governements that have been destroying the Earth and bring the Kingdom of God to rule the physical Earth as the age of God's rule on the Earth begins.

God is your "petra", His commandments are your mark in your forehead (how you think) and in your right hand (what you do), keep holy the eternally commanded sabbaths of God, and Jesus Christ will save us from ourselves as God had always planned from the begining.

God Bless



posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 04:26 AM
link   
reply to post by DISRAELI
 


I do not think that it is advisable to analyse these texts with too much logic and science. They are fables not history books.

It seems to me like someone is trying to find out what poison the witch used to inject the apple with.

If you believe it is the word of god, how do you explain verses like these:

"imothy 2:12, in which the saint says: "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent.""

"1 Samuel 15:3: "This is what the Lord Almighty says ... 'Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.' "

Or how about this one? "Ephesians 5:22, "Wives, submit to you husbands as to the Lord""

Can´t we move on from these "taking the bible literally" things? Do we really have to try to explain the trumpets?

All the best with your efforts. It just doesn´t seem plausible or useful to me.



posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 05:07 AM
link   

Originally posted by Nightaudit
Can´t we move on from these "taking the bible literally" things? Do we really have to try to explain the trumpets?

On a different thread about the same chapter, I've just been answering somebody who is vigorously complaining that I am NOT taking these words literally.
If you on the left wing are claiming that I am too far to the right, and ChesterJohn on the right wing is complaining that I am too far to the left, that suggests that I am bang in the centre, and probably on the right track.

I would comment on those other verses you mention if we were in a thread discussing those verses.
We are not. We are on a thread discussing the meaning of Revelation ch8.
If you don't think the topic of a thread should be discussed, there's no reason for you to take part in it.


edit on 24-1-2013 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2013 @ 12:15 PM
link   
reply to post by DISRAELI
 



My response to the claims made about the year 2012 was that I could see no prophetic significance in the date.
This position seems to have been vindicated.





new topics
 
10
<<   2 >>

log in

join