Pedophiles - 'Brand' them like the animals they are

reply to post by Exuberant1


Really, how much of a troll are you? I can't wait till they fix the ignore function it's completely useless to talk to you.

Let's see, either we contract out to overpriced contractors that raise the budget, or we use a readily available work force to do manual labor. If you haven't noticed, budget deficits are a hot topic on the minds of taxpayers. Why not ease that burden by using these pedophile inmates for manual labor?

Keeps them away from schools, gives them something useful to do, saves everyone tax dollars. I don't see what the problem is? It's not like they would be using heavy equipment, they would be shoveling dirt.

I appreciate all of your personal experiences and opinions to a degree BUT ...

1. Sex Offenders always reoffend. Wrong

Bureau of Justice Statistics published a study which tracked 9,700 sex offenders for three years, 2001-2004:

* Only 5.3% of these people imprisoned for sex crimes were rearrested for a subsequent sex offense.
* Where a child was involved, the rearrest rate dropped to 3.3%.
* Between two adults, the sexual reoffense rate was 2.2%.

2004 by office of Canada's Solicitor General, Karl Hanson:

* The recidivism rate for once-caught pedophiles was 12.7%.
* The overall once caught recidivism rate (includes adult victims) was 13.7%.

Allegedly with or without treatment 87% of offenders do not commit another sex offense. The rates are allegedly higher with treatment.

2004 US Department of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics says 69% of all other types of criminals return to prison within five years. Over a longer period of time it becomes 74%.

* Approximately 4,300 child molesters were released from prisons in 15 States in 1994. An estimated 3.3% of these 4,300 were rearrested for another sex crime against a child within 3 years of release from prison.

* Among child molesters released from prison in 1994, 60% had been in prison for molesting a child 13 years old or younger.

The United States Department of Justice tracked the rearrest, re-conviction, and re-incarceration of former inmates for 3 years after their release from prisons in 15 states in 1994. Key findings include:

* Released prisoners with the highest rearrest rates were robbers (70.2%), burglars (74.0%), larcenists (74.6%), motor vehicle thieves (78.8%), those in prison for possessing or selling stolen property (77.4%), and those in prison for possessing, using, or selling illegal weapons (70.2%).

* Within 3 years, 2.5% of released rapists were arrested for another rape, and 1.2% of those who had served time for homicide were arrested for homicide. These are the lowest rates of re-arrest for the same category of crime.

2. Treatment does not reduce the risk of a second offense. Wrong

* The Campbell Collaboration analysis of 22,000 individuals found that treatment reduced recidivism by 37%.
* Canada's Karl Hanson's 2000 analysis found a reduction of 41%.
* Oshkosh Correctional's meta-analysis from 79 separate studies of over 11,000 sex offenders found that people who participated in treatment programs had a 59% rearrest reduction.
* According to Alexander's 1998 study, "Men arrested for having sex with children are usually overcome with shame and remorse and they want to stop. Since 1943 those who were treated in jails, hospitals and outpatient clinics found their way back to prison at a rate that was approximately one-third of those who had no treatment."
* By 2005, most all preventative programs showed that rearrest rates were being reduced by greater than half. With some of the latest deep aversion and victim empathy regimens, reductions were reported as high as 91%.
* There is now a credible concurrence that "treatment works" and that new programs are becoming increasingly more successful.

In 2007, the Texas State Auditor released a report showing that sex offenders who completed the Texas Sex Offender Treatment Program (SOTP) were 61% LESS LIKELY to commit a new crime. (See “An Audit Report on Selected Rehabilitation Programs at the Department of Criminal Justice.” Texas State Auditor. March 2007. Report No. 07-026. Retrieved Oct 20, 2009. www.sao.state.tx.us...

On Castration: For sex offenders with severe or extreme paraphilias physical castration appears to be effective as, historically, it results in a 20-year re-offense rate of less than 2.3% vs. 80% in the untreated control group, according to a large 1963 study involving a total of 1036 sex offenders by the German researcher A. Langelüddeke, among others.

Some relevant quotes:

In her book, Harmful to Minors: The Perils of Protecting Children from Sex (University of Minnesota Press, 2002), author Judith Levine wrote:

All this rational talk may mean nothing to a parent. Out of 45 million, only nine children are raped and murdered: slim odds, sure, but if it happens to your baby, who cares about the statistics? Still, most parents manage to put irrational fears in perspective. Why, in spite of all information to the contrary, do Americans insist on believing that pedophiles are a major peril to their children? What do people fear so formidably? Our culture fears the pedophile, say some social critics, not because he is a deviant, but because he is ordinary. And I don't mean because he is the ice-cream man or Father Patrick. No, we fear him because he is us.

Knowing of NCIA's work and having seen this report, author/researcher Henry Scammell volunteered the following:

The public has been misled into believing that sex offenders are aroundevery corner and that even those who have been caught will go on to offend forever. The first fear is irrational and the second is less true of sex offenses than of virtually any other type of crime. The only public policies with any hope of success are those based on reliable research instead of fears, and on scientific facts rather than easy political fixes fed by misconceptions. Fear is a poor basis for public policy. It raises a nearly unbreachable barrier to the truth. And a policy that is based on the realities --of low recidivism, of responsiveness to treatment and of the relationship between the vast majority of offenders and their victims-- offers the only hope for reducing or eliminating one of our society^Òs saddest and most challenging problems.

# Robert Freeman-Longo, former director of the Safer Society, stated:

You ban somebody from the community, he has no friends, he feels bad about himself, and you reinforce the very problems that contribute to sex abuse behavior in the first place. You make him a worse sex offender.

Silo13 I appreciate there must be some kind of pain you're going through, but lets not dress this up as statistic based logic. It is what it is and that's a philosophical based revenge/justice. You think what the persons did is so great and terrible they should suffer or be killed. That is a valid opinion and you are entitled to it.

I'm not attacking your point. I'm not defending sex offenders. I'm just placing it in perspective for you.

Apologies for the spam. I grabbed the information from a couple of sources including wikipedia, and just feel that unless the relevant statistics are shown no one is going to read them.

MOD NOTE: Posting work written by others

DMCA: Digital Millennium Copyright Act

Yeah, treat em like the humans they are?

There are plenty "pedophiles" who I am sure if they had the choice, they would not want to be one. But sadly, what floats their boat floats their boat. Obviously some are sick, but others just try to ignore that they are sexually corrupt. There is even a help group here in my city for people with "nasty thoughts".

The more and more this is looked at the more and more its realized that No, they don't have a choice to pick what attracts them. But yes, they have the choice of trying to change it.

Brand them? Thats literally crazy person talk.

My only problem with the 'branding' of them would be the innocent people who are effected. Our justice system doesn't have a very good track record, and if even one innocent person was effected by this it would ruin their entire life. Can you imagine the millions of dollars the government would have to dole out per innocent convicted?

All of the stories of people freed after DNA evidence came to light, all of the stories you hear about someone planting child pornography on someones PC to get them in trouble and being caught doing so. It really makes you wonder exactly how many people have been wrongly convicted in our guilty until proven innocent justice system.

Until we have a way of reading someone's mind and determining guilt, this is simply a bad idea.

reply to post by Pinke


Not to doubt your copy and paste job, but it would be helpful if you backed that up with a link. I would hate to have to find out your source was NAMBLA or something like that.

Not to doubt your information, I just want to be able to independently verify it.

America has really always had a revenge based penal system, which I believe is part of the problem in the American legal system, instead of working on rehabilitation, giving inmates opportunities to improve themselves and thus giving them the tools they need to actually pay for their crimes and give them another way to live, we instead just lock them up and in essence create a criminal society, and make our penal system a criminology school creating better criminals.

I personally believe just about everyone can be rehabilitated, if given the right opportunity. Given the right counseling and the right schooling, someone can go from being a hardened criminal to being a productive member of society. Unfortunately in our society today, people caught for criminal behavior even once out are discriminated against, even though they have paid their debt to society. That criminal record follows them wherever they go and they are denied access to opportunities to better themselves and thus this causes many people to slip back into their old habits.

Simple. Cattle prod where the sun don't shine and then a public stoning to death. Or let the family of the poor child beat the man/women to within an inch of life and then repeat the cattle prod method.

But in all reality I think the best thing to do would be locking them all up in the same prison indefinitely and selling the rights of their lives and the prison to a cruel Japanese game show.

I suppose another thing the government could do is a constant flow of ketamine through a spinal intravenous drip. Just enough so they can walk around like crab and slur a few words but that would be enough to scare children away, no chance of trust building.

I've got a crazy, crazy idea that would fix it. How about no sex with anyone other than your husband/wife???

For all of you that don't believe in moral absolutes, how can you even condemn any child molestor? It's just your worthless cosmic chemical reaction opinion versus their worthless cosmic chemical reaction opinion. I'm at least glad that many of you don't live according to your so called beliefs... because if you did all come from pond scum millions of years ago, why is molesting wrong (anyones lifestyle is just as valid as anothers), and better yet what does "wrong" even mean?

reply to post by queenofsheba


If an 18 year old girl has sex with your 15 year old do you think she should be branded? Just curious. Pedophiles say 8 is too late. This is when a child develops cognitive learning skills and can point them out in court.

Even though the act is horrendous, pedophiles are people too. I don't believe in monsters.

Some of the torture ideas on here make me wonder if pedophelia is less of a crime than the proposed punishments. Talk about sickos.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by Pinke

 

Not to doubt your copy and paste job, but it would be helpful if you backed that up with a link. I would hate to have to find out your source was NAMBLA or something like that.

Not to doubt your information, I just want to be able to independently verify it.

Was the NAMBLA comment really necessary? Bit of a needless comment.

It's not like I'm hiding that it's a copy and paste job - stats are stats. In fact I posted a source early in this thread and no one bothered to look. The most base level of research in this thread hasn't been done - if someone tries to verify the stats then that would be most helpful in their education.

Sorry to be hostile but ...

lmgtfy.com...

You'll find stuff like ...

www.reformsexoffenderlaws.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
constitutionalfights.wordpress.com...
www.csom.org...

You can verify numbers in those articles here:

bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov...
bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov...

And in case you live in Australia:

www.deakin.edu.au...

For New Yorkers:

criminaljustice.state.ny.us...

Yes, normally I'd like people to post links for me to check too, but these are pretty base level factual statistics and information that people can find if they put the fire axe down for a minute. They would also find data more relevant to where they live. On a side note all the studies are in by name. Look up the studies.

Originally posted by silo13
BRAND THEM. First conviction. No second chances.

Sorry, but the Constitution isn't a cafeteria-style document. You don't get the First, Second, Fourth & Fifth Amendments while getting to ignore the Eighth.

United States Constitution, Amendment 8:

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

en.wikipedia.org...

In Furman v. Georgia, 408 U.S. 238 (1972), Justice Brennan wrote, "There are, then, four principles by which we may determine whether a particular punishment is 'cruel and unusual'."

* The "essential predicate" is "that a punishment must not by its severity be degrading to human dignity," especially torture.
* "A severe punishment that is obviously inflicted in wholly arbitrary fashion."
* "A severe punishment that is clearly and totally rejected throughout society."
* "A severe punishment that is patently unnecessary."

Continuing, he wrote that he expected that no state would pass a law obviously violating any one of these principles, so court decisions regarding the Eighth Amendment would involve a "cumulative" analysis of the implication of each of the four principles.

Originally posted by TechUnique
Simple. Cattle prod where the sun don't shine and then a public stoning to death. Or let the family of the poor child beat the man/women to within an inch of life and then repeat the cattle prod method.

Odd that your signature is about ending tyranny...yet you want the government to endorse a blatant abuse of human rights.

Oh, I know..."B-b-b-but the pedophile abuses the rights of children!" So, you want to bring society down to their level, then?

Laws are there to prevent us from submitting to our baser instincts.

You want to stone these criminals? Move to Saudi Arabia. You'd fit right in.

I agree, the punishments people suggest definitely suggest a lynch crowd mentality, like i said, we are DEEVOLVING.....

Yup, because the answer to violence is medieval violence.

I'm kinda wondering...
what religions make up the majority of the people that are asking an eye for an eye...
Christians, I'd be very surprised, because it says love one another, I came not for the well, I came to help the sick
Wiccans that cry for blood, I'm VERY surprised, doesnt the Rede say 'An harm none, do as thou will', does that exclude violence on someone else?
Pagans are covered by the Threefold Law: what you do, will return threefold, or does that exclude hurting someone like a child molester or anyone of that ilk?

I'm just curious

I think they should take convicted Pedos and place them, bound, in a small room for the victems family to do whatever they want. "Hostel" style. Seems harsh, yes, but i really dont give a crap about how a pedo feels or if they die a horrible agonizing death. Bite me.

MOTF!

Fighting cruelty with cruelty? I doubt this will work. Im all for stern punishment of pedophiles, but this doesnt sound like punishment it sounds like sadism.