Originally posted by Jagedline
If I was Christian, this point can't be reconciled, it is wrong and I have to accept it as such.

How would/did you handle this if it should arise? What would you do if the person you planned on marrying asked you to take wedding vows?

Just because your friends have no issue with it, this does not make this okay in the eyes of their creator does it?

I suppose this is up to their personal interpertation of the Bible. I have seen many people infer different meanings from the same passages. In the end, however, it is not my concern as their own spirituality is not for me to judge.

You took the oath correct?

Yes.

If so you swore that you would not reveal the secrets. If you do reveal the secrets what is the punishment? Rather brutal isn't it?

It is also revealed to the candidate, prior to taking said oaths, that they are strictly symbolic. I do not expect someone to come along and sever my body in twain.

If we stick to the Christian religion, isn't the human body considered a "Temple of God" ? If it is, does the Christian have the right or authority to allow another to desecrate that Temple?

If the person understands that the oaths are purely symbolic then I believe they have no fear of their 'Temple' being desecrated.

The above is another example of the contradictions I mentioned. Of course you might say that you took the oath BUT no one would ever dream of following through with the punishment.

No one ever has had the punishment applied to them for breaking the oaths. It is soley your conscience which bears the burden of breaking your obligation.

If one is truly a Christian how do they resolve these issues?

Not being one I can not truthfully answer that. There are other Masons who post here who are and I am sure they would be happy to answer that question for you.

Maybe I am just intolerant and a fundamentalist. It must be that the Bible is a book of suggestions not the Word of God.

Your own adherence to the Bible is your perogative and I do not look down on anyone who chooses to follow it more loosely or closely. It is their intolerance of myself and others that I find troublesome.

Originally posted by network dude
When I asked God if he minded, he didn't strike me down or anything, so I have to assume he is cool with it as well. We do talk often. He is a real nice guy.

Thank you.




Make sure you say your prayers tonight, and do not foget I have my all-seeing eye on you.

Originally posted by Jagedline
If the Bible says it is wrong, how can you, me or anyone make it right?

If the Bible says that God made a bet with Satan that Lot would kill his son and God tricked Lot into almost "pulling the trigger" does that mean that I have to believe that God is a self centered terrible person? I think not. My personal belief is that the Bible has to be applied to your life and your choices. If you believe that by taking an oath not to tell secrets, that you will burn in the eternal fires of hell, then go nuts. that is your belief. How do you reconcile the "Angry God" parts of the Bible?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Make sure you say your prayers tonight, and do not foget I have my all-seeing eye on you.

I still don't have my beer. I am starting to think you don't care anymore.

It feels that my participation in this topic is starting to go in circles. If I failed to respond to your post or question, rest assured it was not ignored. If you would like a specific answer feel free to message me. Thank you all for your comments, they have been enlightening.

Thanks again.

Originally posted by network dude
I still don't have my beer. I am starting to think you don't care anymore.

Huh? Did you say something? I was busy icing a six pack, the Yanks are on.

Originally posted by Jagedline
It feels that my participation in this topic is starting to go in circles. If I failed to respond to your post or question, rest assured it was not ignored. If you would like a specific answer feel free to message me. Thank you all for your comments, they have been enlightening.

Thanks again.

I understand. thanks for being civil and not pulling the old "well you eat babies" thing.

It's not like any of us actually "know" anything for sure. We just Hope we are right.

Originally posted by Jagedline


There is no judgment here, I am asking questions. These questions are based on their claimed beliefs. As for the aversion to oaths, the passage quoted as well as another say that they are wrong. The argument of this person or that person chooses to do it is hollow. The Holy Book says it is wrong, not me. I just pointed to where it says this action is wrong.

The Apostle Paul places himself under oath 5 separate times in his Epistles. The Church has therefore traditionally interpreted the Scriptures pertaining to oaths differently than you appear to interpret it.

Originally posted by Jagedline

While the information you present appears correct on the whole, what is the point? To make a connection between Masonry and Satan?

To Quote IAMIAM
"Some will join and find an occult slant, most do not though, even into the appendant bodies. The numbers are maybe 1 % of all Masons know anything about the occult world wide."

Here you have a Freemason acknowledging that there is a connection.

You seem to be confusing the term "occult" with Satan. Occultism has nothing to do with belief in, or worship of, Satan.

Have their been connections between occultism and Freemasonry? Yes. Is there a connection between Freemasonry and satanism? No.

There is a reason for this, the Majority of Masons' are within the first 3 degrees.

Do you have a reference for this? I ask because, at least in the United States, most Masons, and practically all active Masons, have gone into the higher degrees.

Originally posted by rebeldog
dude must be a "low tier" mason.. the minions of gullible rubes used as pawns to project a wonderful reflection of the true evil which exists only in the higher degrees.. 23-33d degrees.. 23d degree is the first "EYE" opener.. their first "new" reality...

it is like a rookie congressman telling us govt isn't corrupt..

I have no idea what the original poster's Masonic status might be. I will start by saying that your assumption that the degrees of the Scottish Rite confer some special authority on members is seriously mistaken. The highest degree in Freemasonry is the third degree, that of Master Mason.

However, if you won't believe that, then I'll inform you that I am a 32nd degree Scottish Rite Mason as well as a Royal Arch and Cryptic Mason. And all of that and about $4.25 will get me a bad cup of coffee at Starbucks. No one who joins the Fraternity sticks with it for material advancement or power. There is simply no opportunity for that kind of thing. If members of the Fraternity are, in fact, disproportionately successful and powerful -- a contention for which I have seen little evidence -- then it most likely because they have devoted more time to improving themselves.

Originally posted by rebeldog
dude must be a "low tier" mason.. the minions of gullible rubes used as pawns to project a wonderful reflection of the true evil which exists only in the higher degrees.. 23-33d degrees.. 23d degree is the first "EYE" opener.. their first "new" reality...

it is like a rookie congressman telling us govt isn't corrupt..

32º wasn't that awe inspiring.. personally, I liked the 14th the best.

When you actually grow the cahonas to go through the 32 degrees.. I might.. might take your opinion into consideration.

But seeing as you haven't and won't..........

Originally posted by Rockpuck
32º wasn't that awe inspiring.. personally, I liked the 14th the best.

Yes, that one is the best example of "being brought to light"

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
No one ever has had the punishment applied to them for breaking the oaths. It is soley your conscience which bears the burden of breaking your obligation.

Well, there was that one banker. under that bridge in London that one time… But that was a mafia hit disguised to look like Masonic payback.

And, of course, the modern oaths have penalties like "let all men know what scum I am to have violated such an oath." or something similar.

I will tell you one thing. My lodge has some great freaking BBQ! All we do is round up money and give it away. It is a fraternity of men. Not once have I ever been subjected to the occult or satanism etc. I find it hard to believe that all these men I am associated with are just dying to recruit souls to feed to lucifer etc and in some way I have been brainwashed to do the same. What a crock of crap. If you would actually join a lodge to find out the truth rather then reading garbage you will never know.

Originally posted by rebeldog
dude must be a "low tier" mason.. the minions of gullible rubes used as pawns to project a wonderful reflection of the true evil which exists only in the higher degrees.. 23-33d degrees.. 23d degree is the first "EYE" opener.. their first "new" reality...

Just out of morbid curiousity, what exactly is it in the 23rd degree that you contend is an "eye opener" and a "new reality". Having been a Scottish Rite Director of Work for many years, and being therefore intimately familiar with the degree ceremonies of the Rite, I cannot for the life of me figure out what you're talking about, and would appreciate the feedback.

I will not, however, hold my breath.......