Some masonic secrets for the masses

OK, here's an extremely simplified working example of how Freemasonry works:

Part 1

(Sadly, in order to give you this short experiment, I will have to reveal a secret that I know from my work, but it's OK, because I haven't signed a confidentiality clause yet.)

As a chemistry researcher, and since we're on ATS, I am prepared to tell you a secret that I know has been kept from the general public:

Oranges contain extremely high levels of arsenic.

Hint 1: I'm actually am telling the truth about arsenic in oranges.
Hint 2: Cyanide concentrations are also high in oranges.

Challenge - to find out whether or not hint 2 is actually true, you will have to do a little research....

reply to post by Saurus


Alright, that right there kind of creeps me out. I love oranges and orange juice. You guys have known that they have arsenic in them, yet you don't share that little detail. Jesus Christ man arsenic is extremely poisonous and deadly to living beings. That's something that should be exposed to the public. That's #ed up...Jesus I hope this is just some drunken dream right now...

Part 2

Now, they say about Freemasonry that you only get out what you put in.

A Freemason would probably read many articles about this, and would struggle to find anything on the topic, since it is a secret. A good Freemason would read more and more, until he finally understands the truth. Since it has been kept highly secret by the chemistry community in the field of oranges, he will probably have to read a hundred papers before he discovers the truth, until, by the end of it all, he knows without a doubt what he was supposed to learn...

He was supposed to learn about oranges. (He also knows by the end of it all that there is no poison because the papers by the chemists don't exist, especially since he understands the method of teaching through allegory, and expects that somewhere in it all, something was not true.) But at the end of it all, Freemasonry has succeeded in it's purpose - which is - to teach the Mason about oranges!

reply to post by Saurus


You can see that, had I not said it was a secret, a mason would simply have read Wikipedia to find out the truth. Because there was secrecy involved, he had to delve a lot deeper in order to discover the truth, and on the way, learn a huge amount about oranges.

All of the above is made up, and this is but a very simple example, but I hope that I have illustrated why secrecy is involved, and why the different orders teach different "allegories" (ie. the different hints in the above example, which are there simply to enhance the learning process) and why the secrets are not necessarily true.

Once you are initiated, you understand the system, and it becomes a challenge to find the truth.

I hope it all is a little clearer now.

reply to post by Saurus


Alright, my question is why just Freemasons? I think that's something that should most defiantly be shared with the entire public to help fight arsenic poisoning. Wouldn't you say?

reply to post by Saurus


Also, I swear I just looked up Wikipedia and I didn't see one word about Arsenic in it.

reply to post by PsychoReaper4


So what happens if someone simply believes the secret without doing the research, as you did? They would believe that there is arsenic in oranges (and would probably not ever eat oranges again, which is actually detrimental to themselves) and would not learn anything about oranges.

The secrets can be harmful to those not familiar with the method of teaching.

It is necessary, therefore, to initiate the candidate into the method of teaching so that he understands what he is doing before the secrets are revealed to him (which may be truths, half truths or complete stories). It should also be very clear why it is necessary to keep these things secret to the non-initiated, since the general public would either (a) not understand the teaching process and simply write freemasonry off as a hoax or (b) believe the secrets blindly to their own detriment.

Originally posted by PsychoReaper4
reply to post by Saurus

 

Also, I swear I just looked up Wikipedia and I didn't see one word about Arsenic in it.

Aah, you see, I made you read about oranges by telling you a false secret! (I think you may have missed a post or two above)

reply to post by Saurus


Okay. So the higher you go in the ranks the more "secrets" will be revealed to you? However, you have to research yourself whether the "secrets" are actually truth or just propaganda? So, they just # with you? That's what I'm getting from this conversation. Also, to keep from double posting, and answering your post above this one, I happen to be pretty tipsy at the moment, so bare in mind that I might be a few marbles short of a collection right now. >__>

reply to post by PsychoReaper4

Okay. So the higher you go in the ranks the more "secrets" will be revealed to you?

There isn't a "higher."

Once you are a master mason, you can choose your degrees based on what you are interested in. Therefore, someone interested in exploring their Maker might join the royal arch to study its secrets. Someone interested in the 'self' would join the Scottish rite to learn its secrets. Someone interested in the relationships between people might join Secret Monitor to learn its secrets. And so on...

But any master Mason can join any of these at any time, so none of them are "higher" than any other. So to get more secrets, you simply join more at will.

However, you have to research yourself whether the "secrets" are actually truth or just propaganda? So, they just # with you? That's what I'm getting from this conversation.

You are missing the point. Allegories and symbols are revealed to you as teaching tools.

Originally posted by PsychoReaper4
reply to post by Saurus

 

Alright, that right there kind of creeps me out. I love oranges and orange juice. You guys have known that they have arsenic in them, yet you don't share that little detail. Jesus Christ man arsenic is extremely poisonous and deadly to living beings. That's something that should be exposed to the public. That's #ed up...Jesus I hope this is just some drunken dream right now...

You realize, of coures, that though oranges really don't have arsenic in them, apple seeds DO have cyanide in them? I mean, that's pretty common knowledge, right?

reply to post by JoshNorton
Agreed on apples.
Did you know that Mountain Laurel, a rhododendron, is also a source of cyanide? If freshly picked leaves are placed in a container, they give off cyanide gas as they wilt. If bees make honey exclusively from Mountain Laurel blossoms, it can have toxic concentrations of cyanide.

I wouldn't have bothered subscribing to this thread if I wasn't a Mason. And now I have learned that oranges do not necessarily contain high levels of arsenic. wow.

Originally posted by JoshNorton
You realize, of coures, that though oranges really don't have arsenic in them, apple seeds DO have cyanide in them? I mean, that's pretty common knowledge, right?

Haha.... That's what gave me the idea...

I wouldn't have bothered subscribing to this thread if I wasn't a Mason. And now I have learned that oranges do not necessarily contain high levels of arsenic. wow.

Yes, being a mason sure does have its advantages!

reply to post by Saurus


First off - thanks to everyone who's participated in this thread. It's been very helpful to me.

The secrets can be harmful to those not familiar with the method of teaching. It is necessary, therefore, to initiate the candidate into the method of teaching so that he understands what he is doing before the secrets are revealed to him (which may be truths, half truths or complete stories). It should also be very clear why it is necessary to keep these things secret to the non-initiated, since the general public would either (a) not understand the teaching process and simply write freemasonry off as a hoax or (b) believe the secrets blindly to their own detriment.

Saurus - so if I understand you correctly, Masonry is really about a method of teaching and/or learning that helps it's members gain a deeper or greater understanding of things vs. just providing or sharing facts? (read: secrets for the conspiratorially minded). If so, that makes sense to me on a very fundamental level.

Although certain "facts" may be immutable, they are not very valuable without analysis, context and an understanding of how they relate to everything else. In other words, facts do not equal understanding.

There's a great quote from one of the early pioneers in AI software development (I've forgotten who it was):

"We are drowning in data but starving for knowledge".

We all view things through our own lenses. It sounds to me like one of the basic purposes of Freemasonry is to provide a method and process of grinding the lens so to speak...

On a personal level, I have had a strong interest in Freemasonry at various times over the past 20+ years for a number of reasons. Although it's been a while, that interest is back again with a vengeance. After reading through this thread I have a few questions I'd like to ask of some of the Masons here, but I'll save them for another post. The questions are pretty general and not at all along the lines of the "can you reveal specific secrets" type of thing.

I look forward to continuing the dialogue...

reply to post by Riffrafter


all my life I have beet taught things. Most of them I forgot. But when I was in the service, I was taught a very important lesson. How to learn. I learned that I don't have to "know" everything, I just need to know how to find the answers. In masonry it's the same way. except it is taken a step further. You are taught the core lessons through action. It is a way of teaching that has worked for hundreds of years. The lessons aren't earth shattering, but they are hugely important to living a good life. And nobody cares what you know, they only care what you show. So living by example is how you gain respect. In my opinion, the only way it should work.

I will say that I have learned a lot of information and plain life lessons right here on ATS talking to educated, nice people who are willing to spend a few minutes in a conversation. And I have made some great friends from all over the world. (which I think is the most amazing thing about this place) If you have any questions please ask, or start a new thread.

reply to post by Riffrafter


Someone once said, “Freemasonry is a peculiar system of morality, veiled in allegory, illustrated by symbols.” So yeah. It’s not a list of answers. If anything, it’s a list of questions you should be asking yourself every day, though not in a literal sense.

Actually, one of the things that drew me to Freemasonry in the first place was that it was an education system that harkens back to the mystery schools of Pythagoras in its methods (and, to a great degree, in its teachings)

Originally posted by Riffrafter

Saurus - so if I understand you correctly, Masonry is really about a method of teaching and/or learning that helps it's members gain a deeper or greater understanding of things vs. just providing or sharing facts? (read: secrets for the conspiratorially minded). If so, that makes sense to me on a very fundamental level.

Masonry is a method of teaching and learning which helps its members gain a deeper understanding of themselves, and their purpose on this world. It tells stories and reveals symbols, and those stories contain lessons about morality and philosophical issues, and guides the learner into discovering the meaning contained within those lessons. It is absolutely non-dogmatic, and never attempts to interpret the message contained within the stories itself.

Outside of the lodge, at the dinner which follows every meeting, there are often exciting debates and discussions about the ritual and the meaning of the lessons, and one can learn a huge amount from these discussions. They range from the highly esoteric to the mundane. However, it is well understood by all present, that none of them will ever try and impose their interpretation on another person. Thus, Freemasonry is an environment conducive to learning, with people from many walks of life with similar interests. For example, in my lodge, I have a Rosicrucian, a Magus, a historian and many others who have huge amounts of esoteric knowledge, and I have learned immensely from discussions with them.

(Important note: May I add here that my personal interest is in the esoteric side of freemasonry, but there are many others who are much more interested in the moral/ethical lessons taught by the fraternity, so please understand that I am biased in favour of esoteric discussion, whereas Freemasonry offers a lot more than just the esoteric side.)

Although certain "facts" may be immutable, they are not very valuable without analysis, context and an understanding of how they relate to everything else. In other words, facts do not equal understanding.

You sound like a Freemason!

There's a great quote from one of the early pioneers in AI software development (I've forgotten who it was):

"We are drowning in data but starving for knowledge".

An excellent quote. I shall add it to my collection...

We all view things through our own lenses. It sounds to me like one of the basic purposes of Freemasonry is to provide a method and process of grinding the lens so to speak...

Yes, you have hit the nail on the head. According to the ritual, Freemasonry is a process of chiseling and polishing a rough stone into a smooth one. Almost a paraphrase of your own description!

On a personal level, I have had a strong interest in Freemasonry at various times over the past 20+ years for a number of reasons. Although it's been a while, that interest is back again with a vengeance. After reading through this thread I have a few questions I'd like to ask of some of the Masons here, but I'll save them for another post. The questions are pretty general and not at all along the lines of the "can you reveal specific secrets" type of thing.

Please do ask those questions. Also feel free to send a PM to any of the Masons on this thread if you do not wish to ask them publicly, and we will gladly answer all your questions.

The royal arch is just the McDonald's logo, don't have a cow man!

I am a Mason and what the topic poster said is true. It's a male civic organization like any other mens or womens civic club. The fact that the meetings are held behind closed doors gives the group privacy just like a behind the doors frat meeting. The initiation is secret just like many organizations, frats. The meetings are closed door justy like many corprations, unions, ect. There is nothing super secret scheming or plotting going on. It's a business meeting covering bills, going over applicants, putting on degrees (initiation type questions and answers that are taught by voice only and not written down and all based on and reinacting biblical events). It is a Christian organization, Knights of Columbus is the same but the Catholic version. Just like any organization or frats, members tend to help other members out when they can. I can't speak for every lodge because some may be more strict and ceremonial than others but the core of the initiaions and ideas are all the exactly the same. In my local lodge it's a bunch of guys socializing, playing dominoes, cooking meals and eating as well as conducting the regular closed door meetings that are structured in the way they are conducted. The Masons and Shriners (you have to be a Mason to be a Shriner) have many medical and burn ceneters around the world that are funded by the organization to help people. It's a good organization and they don't plot to overtake or control anything.

Originally posted by Dantas
It is a Christian organization, Knights of Columbus is the same but the Catholic version.

It may have Judeo-Christian values as part of its teachings but it is certainly not a Christian orginization in my opinion.