Originally posted by Jagedline
No one can debunk facts. The facts are that the authors mentioned have been tied to occult teachings. Whether or not I believe they are lucifarians is irrelevant. I stated this because that is one of the primary reasons that Freemasons are labeled as "satanist" and the like. Most people that make these claims have no idea what they are talking about. And most blue lodge Masons have no clue about this, they are stuck fighting a battle knowing half the facts. BTW cherry pie can only be tied to Satan if it has whipped cream on it!

Hello my friend,

The problem with you trying to tack Freemasonry down with such a short paragraph, is that no one person or group of people can speak for Freemasonry as a whole. Each and every Mason will get something different out of it than the next. This goes all the way up the degrees. You can't even get Masons to agree on what sides to serve for their Pancake Breakfast fundraiser without lengthy debate. So, to be some kind of "Secret Society" hell bent on ruling the world, my friend, there are better ways to go about it than Freemasonry. I would start by getting an economics degree and landing a job at Goldman Sachs rather than joining a lodge.

Here is a definition that sums it up for me from an outside source:

1823 - Definition of a Freemason
In The Farmers Almanac for 1823 published at Andover, Mass., the following was printed under the heading, “definition of a Freemason’: The real Freemason is distinguished from the rest of Mankind by the uniform unrestrained rectitude of his conduct. Other men are honest in fear of punishment which the law might inflect they are religious in expectation of being rewarded, or in dread of the devil, in the next world. A Freemason would be just if there were no laws, human or divine except those written in his heart by the finger of his Creator. In every climate, under every system of religion, he is the same. He kneels before the Universal Throne of God in gratitude for the blessings he has received and humble solicitation for his future protection. He venerates the good men of all religions. He disturbs not the religion of others. He restrains his passions, because they cannot be indulged without injuring his neighbor or himself. He gives no offense, because he does not choose to be offended. He contracts no debts which he is certain he cannot discharge. because he is honest upon principal.


With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by Jagedline
I am wondering if you read my initial post. It is in this thread about 3-4 posts up.

Of course I did, that is why I replied.

"Some of the passages in these books seem to tie these appendant orders to Luciferianism. Some say it is at these higher levels where one learns the identity of Great Architect of the Universe. "

The point I was trying to make in my previous post is that Freemasonry is different for everyone. Some will join and find an occult slant, most do not though, even into the appendant bodies. The numbers are maybe 1 % of all Masons know anything about the occult world wide. Of those who are interested in the occult, you can not even get agreement on which occult knowledge is represented in the symbolism. Some will say Alchemy, others gnosticism, still others the Qaballah, Tarot, pick your dark secret art. The symbolism is so generic that virtually anything can be attributed to it if you reach far enough.

None of this means that Freemasonry IS any of that. Freemasonry IS what you make of it. If you learn its lessons and apply them to your life, it can be transformative. Other than that, it is a Brotherhood of Men from all walks of life who wish to come together fro the common good of their communities.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by IAMIAM
I'll teleport to high command and see if there is anyway to contain the damage.

You should do so right away, radicals have already set us up the bomb. it wont be long before your base are belong to us. make your time.

Originally posted by Jagedline
The person who wrote and established the 33 degrees in the Scottish Rite is none other than Albert Pike. Mr. Pike happened to also pen the foundational book for this group. The book is called Morals and Dogma.

Actually, the 33 degrees of the Scottish Rite were well established before Pike was born. The first Supreme Council of the 33rd degree was founded in Charleston, South Carolina, USA by 11 York Rite Masons in 1801. Pike joined the Scottish Rite on March 20, 1853. The following year, the Supreme Council formed a committee to revise its degree rituals, appointing Pike as committee chairman. He did most of the revision himself.

The Supreme Council voted to adopt the Pike revisions as the official ritual. Pike wrote "Morals and Dogma" with the intent that the 32 chapters of the book would be adopted as the official lectures of the 32 degrees, which never actually happened, although the book was given as a gift to all new Scottish Rite Masons in the Southern Jurisdiction up until the late 1960's (at the time Pike wrote that book, the 33rd degree was merely administrative, given only to voting members of the Supreme Council; after Pike was elected Grand Commander, he expanded the 33rd degree, and allowed it to be conferred on brothers who were not voting members of the Supreme Council, in recognition of outstanding service; this new class of 33rd degree Masons became Honorary Members of the Supreme Council, and still count for most of the 33rd degree members in the Southern Jurisdiction).

It is in this book as well as books from Manly P. Hall and various others that the mystery comes into play.

It could be argued that mystery comes into play in practically all Masonic writings, or at least all the good ones, including the oldest known Masonic document, the Regius Mss., which dates from the 11th century. Hall's writings are often interesting, but unfortunately contain much folklore presented as fact, with very little being able to withstand academic scrutiny. Also, Hall wrote most of his books before he himself became a Mason.

I suggest that those who are genuinely interested read "What is Freemasonry" by Greg Stewart.
Or visit www.freemasoninformation.com

Better still, if you are interested in really learning about what we do behind those closed doors, simply visit a Lodge and join. For those armchair Masons, just like the armchair Generals during wartime, keep reading the BS that folk write about us.

S&F Brethren All.

Originally posted by IAMIAM
When his tools go flying, the blood pours from his hand, the thought of giving up enters his mind, this is when he learns of the patient love of the Master.

He binds the apprentices hand to stop the bleeding, picks up his tools, and says "Rest, I'll show you how its done".

Then the Master approaches the stone and works the tools with a patient grace delicately removing every unwanted flaw and imperfection. Upon the stone, the once hard and lifeless surface, the delicate features emerge. It is but an eye, the apprentices eye, perfect in shape and form.

Reminds me of another short story about Freemasonry...

“A young mason was trying very hard to lift a heavy object, but failing. Another mason comes into the room and noting the young brother’s struggle, asked him, “Are you using all your strength?” “Yes!, of course I am” ,the young mason impatiently exclaimed. “You are not”, answered his fellow mason. “You haven’t asked me to help you yet.”

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by rebeldog
dude must be a "low tier" mason.. the minions of gullible rubes used as pawns to project a wonderful reflection of the true evil which exists only in the higher degrees.. 23-33d degrees.. 23d degree is the first "EYE" opener.. their first "new" reality...

Considering ANY 3rd degree Mason can become a 32° Mason for about $150 and a weekend workshop, no, your imagination of how the structure of Masonry works is seriously flawed.

Where can someone do this? It can't be that easy can it? I meant there has to be some time invested or some 'work' involved in earning it, right?

I would love to add that to my Resume.

Originally posted by DJM8507
Where can someone do this? It can't be that easy can it? I meant there has to be some time invested or some 'work' involved in earning it, right?

No, it's not an honor, they're just degrees, and the fact that it makes you a 32° Mason doesn't give you any power or sway over 3° Masons at all. It's just more education.

So you want to be a 32° Mason? First, become a Mason. Find a local lodge, join, and it will usually take you 3-6 months to get to the 3rd degree. Sometimes longer, but that's about average. Once you're a Master Mason (3rd degree), you can join many of the appendant bodies—the York Rite, the Scottish Rite, the Shrine, the Grotto, etc. Some are more active in some cities/states than others. But again, joining those other bodies doesn't make you a "high level Mason", they just extend the learning that began in the first 3 degrees.

Originally posted by 33Levels
a friend of mines whose uncle was a Mason, said that being a Mason is like having a VIP pass to life

How so?

Would love some details on this.

Originally posted by DJM8507
How hard is it to be a Mason? Are you required to donate X amount of dollars or x amount of hours volunteering? Are you forced to participate in various activities/etc? or are there people who are masons but participate very little?

Is it hard to be a Mason? I do not think so. Is it hard being a Man of good moral character?

Annual dues vary from lodge to lodge between $65 - $250

You are asked to participate in lodge as much as you can so long as it doesn't interfere with work, family, or other important obligations in your life. Most lodges have about a 10% participation rate in their lodges. In other words only 10% of their members are actively participating in the lodge.

We do fund-raisers and take up a collection each meeting in my lodge. The collection is used for paying the bills. Fund-raisers are for lodge charities. My lodge has a scholarship we give away each year. We get the money by having fund-raising events and 100% of the money goes to kids who need it for college.

I have seen lodges adopt highways, hold fund-raisers because someones house burned down, christmas toy drives, if their is a need, any member of the lodge can bring it up to try and help it.

It is a quiet charity. We do not brag, or seek recognition. We just do what we do to help when we can.

With Love,

Your Brother