Some masonic secrets for the masses

reply to post by kera1337


I prefer Milky Way to Snickers.

call me old fashioned.

Originally posted by network dude
call me old fashioned.

What type of 'old fashioned'?

Creme fraiche.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


more like Old Style.

their famous saying: If you want a beer real bad, we have a real bad beer!

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by vcwxvwligen

 

OK, I am waiting with baited breath for you to show me a link, a picture, a passage, anything that shows anything in masonry that points to revenge. ANYTHING AT ALL.

As a 32nd Mason in the Scottish Rite you ought to know this like the back of your hand.

reply to post by vcwxvwligen


Are you saying King Solomon's execution of the three ruffians was revenge, and not justice? Just curious...

reply to post by JoshNorton


It's hard to make a difference between justice and revenge.. revenge is to get back, justice to make right, but really they are just synonyms for the same thing. IMO.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by vcwxvwligen

 

OK, I am waiting with baited breath for you to show me a link, a picture, a passage, anything that shows anything in masonry that points to revenge. ANYTHING AT ALL.

As a 32nd Mason in the Scottish Rite you ought to know this like the back of your hand.

OK, so this game that you play is getting very old. You make stupid claims that are blatant lies, then use a statement like the one above to substantiate it. You are able to read, but not understand things. You have a huge chip on your shoulders. It's a shame too, since at times you seem rather intelligent.

for all concerened. i don't take anything from the person's mouth i've done my research, but let me just show you where my journey began
youtu.be...

this guy does know FROM EXPERIENCE... then i followed the rabbit hole. and sorry to say but people that think you can be a mason and christian, do your research on who king hiram is in the bible. (here's a hint he is likened to lucifer). i've read your doctrin dogma and morals...
masonry at it's very core is absolutely evil

reply to post by stuncrazy

OK, they spelled his name wrong in the opening graphics. Real credible from the start. This man has been discredited many times over as a shyster who will say whatever people will pay for. Try again.

Originally posted by stuncrazy
this guy does know FROM EXPERIENCE... then i followed the rabbit hole. and sorry to say but people that think you can be a mason and christian, do your research on who king hiram is in the bible. (here's a hint he is likened to lucifer). i've read your doctrin dogma and morals...
masonry at it's very core is absolutely evil

First, it would be more interesting if he were likened to satan, because the word "lucifer" even appearing the bible where it does is a typo...

But there's a difference between Hiram of Tyre (the king), and Hiram Abiff (the architect of Solomon's temple). Two guys, similar name.

Do your research, as you've asked us to do...

Originally posted by scooterstrats
OK, they spelled his name wrong in the opening graphics. Real credible from the start. This man has been discredited many times over as a shyster who will say whatever people will pay for. Try again.

Damn, I hadn't even bothered clicking the video link...

You're right, the source, Bill Schnoebelen, was at one point a roman catholic wiccan satanist vampire freemason...

From his own timelines,
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5df3b6ce2133.jpg[/atsimg]
(what's the difference between hard-core satanism and (soft-core?) satanism? Is it like porn? They don't show the demonic penetration in plain, vanilla satanism?)

linky
linky

Originally posted by JoshNorton
First, it would be more interesting if he were likened to satan, because the word "lucifer" even appearing the bible where it does is a typo...

don't know where you got those facts from, lucifer means light-bearer. he was know as the morning star, the fallen one, satan, the serpent, and of course my favorite the great deciever the father of lies.

edit:
and as i don't like to argue when i don't know what i'm talking about i will in fact do the research on the two hirams and return when i have drawn my conclusion

reply to post by stuncrazy
Thats the "can-do" spirit ! Check your sources for any credibility they may have also !

reply to post by stuncrazy


and while you are at it, please check up on Billy. He has been around a bit to say the least. Once you know who you are listening to, you might not want to quote him.

Originally posted by stuncrazy
and as i don't like to argue when i don't know what i'm talking about i will in fact do the research on the two hirams and return when i have drawn my conclusion

I appreciate the effort you're willing to put into this. But if you're going to go down that road, I recommend you do some research on why Lucifer is not Satan as well. The word Lucifer only appears in the King James translation, and one or two others based on it. There are more than a dozen other translations of the bible in which the word never appears once...

One of the better historical analysis I've read on the matter I've transcribed here.

In fact, the idea that Lucifer is Satan really only came about around 1500 years AFTER the bible was written, in the popular fictions of Milton's Paradise Lost and Dante's Inferno. They are not gospel, but were entertainment, and the stories told there have somehow infused themselves in the common belief, despite their not being from a divine source.

Originally posted by stuncrazy

this guy does know FROM EXPERIENCE... then i followed the rabbit hole. and sorry to say but people that think you can be a mason and christian, do your research on who king hiram is in the bible. (here's a hint he is likened to lucifer).

You seem to be confusing the "king of Tyre" mentioned by the Prophet Ezekiel, with "King Hiram of Tyre", who lived during the time of David and Solomon. These, of course, are actually two different people, separated by several centuries.

i've read your doctrin dogma and morals...
masonry at it's very core is absolutely evil

Are you referring to the book "Morals and Dogma"? Since you didn't even get the title right, it is very unlikely that you spent hours upon countless hours actually reading it.

I am both a Christian and a mason (though presently inactive). How "high-level" am I in either? The only way to judge that is by judging my conduct.

I personally believe that Masonry is compatible with my Christian faith; at least as compatible as my AAA membership, my paying into social security, or my kids' involvement in scouting.

I want to mention several of the eternally recurring accusations against masonry, and my response.

1. Oaths are incompatible with Christianity; ergo, Masonry is evil.
While I rarely provide binding oaths, I do for others' benefit. Jesus tells me to let my yes be yes, and my no be no. But sometimes, the person requiring the oath needs more from me. If my wife asks me where I was, sometimes a simple "yes" doesn't suffice.

In ancient Hebrew culture, they had this same problem. If you read Joshua, Judges, Ruth, etc., you will see the oath like this: "May the God who lives, YHVH, do thus and so to me, and even worse, if I fail to do as I have promised." One such oath in the Old Testament is actually the model for Masonic oaths. If you listen to them carefully, you are not promising to cut other people in half---you are saying it the Bible way---"may such and such be done to me...."

That is a pretty serious way of talking. Because over the centuries, a lot of curious kids have asked to join the masons, and promised to keep the secrets, but weren't really intending to do so. Just like witnesses on the stand in a courtroom. Exactly like that, actually....

If you look at Matthew 5, the point Jesus is making is about integrity. Those oaths that outsiders object to, are actually an incredible teaching tool masonry uses to teach the initiate about ..... integrity.

My short answer is this: Was Paul a good Christian? If so, please explain his oath in Galatians 1:20 (which sounds like it may have been a model for certain masonic oaths) Apparently, there are moments in life where an oath is appropriate?

2. If masonry is wholesome, it wouldn't need to be secret
Seriously? I think that Carpenter showed pretty conclusively in Born in Blood that masonry comes from a time when it was illegal for any non-priest to read the Bible for himself. The fact that one of the symbols of masonry is an open Bible pretty much says it all. One of the things I cherish about the lodge is that I can discuss my philosophy, politics, and religion, and everyone there has promised not to run around saying what I said in there. In many countries, this is a priceless gift, which is why masonry is so popular in certain Muslim countries.

From my research (and I was active in a Lodge of Research at one point), I am convinced that masonry hearkens back to a time when there was NO freedom of speech, which was the reason for secret meetings, and a secret membership. The fact that a Bible is open in the lodge (later a "holy book") would have cost every man in the room his life before the Reformation. In fact, I am convinced that masonry helped bring about the Reformation.....

3. You are just a low-level mason, so you don't know jack
Instead of posting my credentials, for you to second-guess, let my ask you a question. Do you think I am the only mason at my lodge who has no clue? Although I am not active right now, I know the guys from church and socially, and they are pretty stand-up guys. Are you asking me to believe that they are all, to a man, satanists? come on!

Or are you saying that most of them are hoodwinked, too? If that is true, and there are over 100 guys in my lodge, then ....most masons are not evil... They'd be like 99 good guys for every secret satanist; probably about like most churches, certainly no worse that many government agencies...

Originally posted by JoshNorton
reply to post by vcwxvwligen

 

Are you saying King Solomon's execution of the three ruffians was revenge, and not justice? Just curious...

In the ritual, King Solomon played a lot of lip service to getting justice and having them tried in court, but in the 9th degree initiation the word "nekam" is explicitly used to describe their deaths.

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

I personally believe that Masonry is compatible with my Christian faith; at least as compatible as my AAA membership, my paying into social security, or my kids' involvement in scouting.

Masonry has nothing to do with the AAA or paying into social security.

I want to mention several of the eternally recurring accusations against masonry, and my response.

1. Oaths are incompatible with Christianity; ergo, Masonry is evil.
While I rarely provide binding oaths, I do for others' benefit. Jesus tells me to let my yes be yes, and my no be no. But sometimes, the person requiring the oath needs more from me. If my wife asks me where I was, sometimes a simple "yes" doesn't suffice.

Maybe there's a reason why even your wife doesn't trust you.

In ancient Hebrew culture, they had this same problem. ....

Too bad Christians don't live in Hebrew culture.

If you look at Matthew 5, the point Jesus is making is about integrity. Those oaths that outsiders object to, are actually an incredible teaching tool masonry uses to teach the initiate about ..... integrity.

That's strange:

Matthew 5:33
Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths

My short answer is this: Was Paul a good Christian? If so, please explain his oath in Galatians 1:20 (which sounds like it may have been a model for certain masonic oaths) Apparently, there are moments in life where an oath is appropriate?

That's not an oath to have your entrails burned and its ashes scattered to the four winds, or for the wine you just drank to become a deadly poison as the hemlock juice drunk by Socrates.

Galatians 1:20
Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not.

2. If masonry is wholesome, it wouldn't need to be secret
Seriously? I think that Carpenter showed pretty conclusively in Born in Blood that masonry comes from a time when it was illegal for any non-priest to read the Bible for himself.

So, freemasonry started out as a group of law-breakers.

The fact that one of the symbols of masonry is an open Bible pretty much says it all. One of the things I cherish about the lodge is that I can discuss my philosophy, politics, and religion, and everyone there has promised not to run around saying what I said in there. In many countries, this is a priceless gift, which is why masonry is so popular in certain Muslim countries.

The other Masons on ATS will be glad to hear this.

From my research (and I was active in a Lodge of Research at one point), I am convinced that masonry hearkens back to a time when there was NO freedom of speech, which was the reason for secret meetings, and a secret membership. The fact that a Bible is open in the lodge (later a "holy book") would have cost every man in the room his life before the Reformation. In fact, I am convinced that masonry helped bring about the Reformation.....

And the communist movement

3. You are just a low-level mason, so you don't know jack
Instead of posting my credentials, for you to second-guess, let my ask you a question. Do you think I am the only mason at my lodge who has no clue? Although I am not active right now, I know the guys from church and socially, and they are pretty stand-up guys. Are you asking me to believe that they are all, to a man, satanists? come on!

Or are you saying that most of them are hoodwinked, too? If that is true, and there are over 100 guys in my lodge, then ....most masons are not evil... They'd be like 99 good guys for every secret satanist; probably about like most churches, certainly no worse that many government agencies...

You've just shown, like other Masons, your willingness to stoop to deceptive argumentation and lies of omission for excuses as to why you're still a member.

reply to post by vcwxvwligen


is it possible for you to become a member, or have you had trouble with the law? Of course you don't have to answer that, but with your problems you have with masonry and your dad wanting you to join, I wonder why you don't at least do a little real research. You are well read, yet you stoop to the silly arguments when you reach a wall. Find out what it's all about. Infiltrate us and expose us for the satanist that we are. I challenge you to join and find anything within our teachings that are not as we have said. but you won't. You lack courage. We will be here, still helping where we can, and ignoring the lies, tomorrow. You, well, you will still be where you are. Wishing you were somewhere else.