North Carolina's Shocking Legal Rape Law

Originally posted by LadySkadi
reply to post by Banjamin Jefferson Madiso

 

Straight up, back off the personal statements and questions. You aren't getting an answer because you don't rate an answer. It's as simple as that. The board is for topical discussion, not a discussion about my personal life.

Come to think of it, the fact that it was brought up as relevant is telling - it tells me you don't have an argument or a rebuttal worthy of it's own merit and have resorted to topic-shifting in order to make your post appear more relevant.

Weak sauce...

edit on 3-10-2010 by LadySkadi because: (no reason given)

Yeah, well, the thing is, you were sharing with us your opinions. these opinions were undoubtedly formulated from your personal life, or experiences, but I am limited to extrapolating from your posts, that is why I qualified my statements regarding your personal life as mostly baseless. Your response after stating why I would not receive a response was way weaker sauce...
I think you are bitter at men because you are reactionary and thus easily manipulated. Maybe you have been victimized by men like that who are largely insecure and as such control freaks. I am not like that.

Still I have absolutely nothing personal or otherwise against you, I am sure you are a perfectly wonderful person to drink a beer or three and chill with...

Originally posted by abrowning
reply to post by Phenomium

 

So you have two daughters. How would you feel if a man was inside her after her consent, and she demanded he stop because she was in pain or changed her mind? What you've been saying leads me to believe you would advise her to just lay there and take it.

I thought this might come up. I teach my girls to be paranoid around everyone. To question the actions of all and to never even consider having sex with a man until marriage. Every man and woman must pay for mistakes they make. I can only hope that my dilligent efforts to keep them chaste until marriage wields it's fruit. If my girls don't listen to me and make a mistake like this, as I said.....we all pay for mistakes we make. If it does happen, I'm sure I wouldn't have been there if it did. I would, however, hunt the guy down JUST for the knowledge of him having sex with my daughters. The Yes and No questions/answers paradigm is of no affect to my descision to bring a hell on earth scenario to the guy who touches my daughters in such a way before marriage. I teach my girls NOT to manipulate men and not to join the ranks of Feminism, but to create a new and true meaning of what real equality is for men and women. A balance on both sides. But to answer your question more clearly, my daughters had better not get in this situation or sadly, it sounds to me that they set themselves up for it. I can only hope that they learn the right way from me and my wife and, like I said, don't get in situations like this. As stated before, the guy would answer, for touching my daughters, but not for the yes/no question. As a man, I understand the confusion of a man that constanly gets mentally and sexually abused and manipulated by women. It's hard to know yes from no with most women because, as is this case....she first said YES...then she said NO. Typical.

reply to post by Banjamin Jefferson Madiso

Yeah, well, the thing is, you were sharing with us your opinions. these opinions were undoubtedly formulated from your personal life, or experiences, but I am limited to extrapolating from your posts, that is why I qualified my statements regarding your personal life as mostly baseless. Your response after stating why I would not receive a response was way weaker sauce...
I think you are bitter at men because you are reactionary and thus easily manipulated. Maybe you have been victimized by men like that who are largely insecure and as such control freaks. I am not like that.

Still I have absolutely nothing personal or otherwise against you, I am sure you are a perfectly wonderful person to drink a beer or three and chill with...

Here's a tip: it's a take it or leave it, type of thing...

You should really stop making statements about what you *think with regards to who I am.
The more you speak, the more foolish you appear.

reply to post by Phenomium


Fair enough.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


This says if it is accomplish with the womans consent....if she consents how is it rape?

Don't you mean: acts like, talks like and cares for her man like - you think she should?

No, I mean the way those roles were defined for centuries. Man and Woman. Do you even know what those roles represent and why? Do you not know that those roles were defined the way they were because that is how our brains are wired? Men were the Hunters and Women were the Gatherers. Research it, especially the difference in the way men shop vs the way women shop.
If it were about a woman acting as I wish for her to act, then I might opt for a mail order bride, hmm Russian or Thai...Thai for sure...At least SHE would be grateful for what I would have done for her! Then I could saddle her with all of my demands. But that seems so unfulfilling, I'd rather have a quality person who wants to be with me because I treat her with respect and love. Not for what I can giver her in material possessions and labor sweat.

Originally posted by LadySkadi
reply to post by Banjamin Jefferson Madiso

 

Yeah, well, the thing is, you were sharing with us your opinions. these opinions were undoubtedly formulated from your personal life, or experiences, but I am limited to extrapolating from your posts, that is why I qualified my statements regarding your personal life as mostly baseless. Your response after stating why I would not receive a response was way weaker sauce...
I think you are bitter at men because you are reactionary and thus easily manipulated. Maybe you have been victimized by men like that who are largely insecure and as such control freaks. I am not like that.

Still I have absolutely nothing personal or otherwise against you, I am sure you are a perfectly wonderful person to drink a beer or three and chill with...

Here's a tip: it's a take it or leave it, type of thing...

You should really stop making statements about what you *think with regards to who I am.
The more you speak, the more foolish you appear.

Maybe to you, but I doubt I look foolish to many others...

reply to post by hotbakedtater


Rape is rape.... Even an animal will stop if the female indicates no. I have a yard full of animals and even the chickens will rebuff the rooster's advances on occasion. If an animal can stop then certainly a human male can? This is one area where the woman has all the power because of the fact that women are more vulnerable. Most men respect this. There have been times that I have had to stop my husband, he has never been angry or too "involved" to stop and he has always been concerned for me.
I think your sons will be fine, it looks as though they have a loving mother and I am sure you or your husband will have explained to them about respect for others before they are in that kind of position...

reply to post by Banjamin Jefferson Madiso

Fair enough. I know there are just as many women who would appreciate that definition, as there are those who would not.

ETA:
As for the the discussion regarding *me* it's over...

reply to post by Banjamin Jefferson Madiso


You really do. Stop focusing on her and focus on the OP. This is not a thread about the roles of men and women. It is certainly not a thread for you to speculate on other members.

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
Withdrawing consent after the act begins can definitely be construed as entrapment and lying by the defense.

Perhaps you are misunderstanding the situation.
Withdrawing consent does not make what has happened up till then rape, so it's not entrapment.

Also, the courts generally have a ~5 second rule, meaning they understand a man in the throes of passion may have trouble pulling out immediately.

It's only if the man refuses to stop after that 5 second interval that this becomes a legal matter.

When anyone with sense begins sex, we all know it ends once the act is over and many times it ends fairly quickly.

Way to go, trivialising the issue. I can just see the judge's face if a the council tried using that as a defence.
"It's not like he took very long, M'lord, he was all done in 5 minutes."

Reminds me of a guy who tried to talk me into sex by explaining he was so small I'd hardly even notice.

Some guys can keep at it for hours. I know one guy who can keep it up all night long.
And sometimes, if things are not lubricated and/or the man is much larger than her, it can hurt badly and even do real damage.

OK heres a grey area situation.
Non-specific female knows non-specific male, and knows non-specific male has the hots for her. She asks the male to do her a favor, the type or scope of which is unimportant. He agrees to perform the favor only if she agrees to have sex with him, this of course means that he gets to complete the act with her. She agrees, he performs the favor. As she is fulfilling her part of the deal, she decides for no particular reason other than she only wanted to get him to do his part, that she does not want to honor the bargain that was made and allow him to complete, and she says for him to stop. If he does not stop, should that be considered rape?

Or what about a prostitute who has already been paid, who decides that she doesnt wish to continue...Should she issue a raincheck or a refund?

Maybe the problem is within the law itself. Its like a ball of dough, you roll it out for long enough and the holes begin to surface. Its the same with the law, the more laws we make the more ways it can be manipulated at will and loopholes will show.
If it was just simple like no forced penetration of any kind that would be it. Because after she gave consent it was painful and withdrew consent. Meaning that it infact was forced but just not for the whole duration of the time so the perpetrator would be charged.
But ultimately, maybe it is society itself. because it creates people like this

reply to post by hotbakedtater


The issue of rape can never be solved with adultery around..

Common, do you really think you can solve a rape case when the only witness is the victim and the apparent rapist? How can you solve it? It is impossible isn't it?

That is why if people want to have sex, they must make an agreement, which everyone can see, then if later they don't want that agreement to stay, they can scrap the agreement and move on.

The number of unsolved rape cases in West is huge, many is related to boy friend, girl friend, and many more is related to parties, many more is related to girls hanging around random men and ending up in a situation where it is the victims words VS the rapist's words.

[oozyism shakes head]

Originally posted by SyphonX
No means no, but I wouldn't call it 'rape'.

You can't compare "I gave consent, but halfway through decided to ask him to stop, but he didn't." to, "He attacked me and brutally raped me against my will."

The former, trivializes the reality of the latter. I see it similar to manslaughter vs. murder, two entirely different charges with separate sentencing, yet it still applies to simply 'ending someone's life'. It shouldn't be so cut and dry, there needs to be a validated gray area with it's own appropriate laws.

It would depend on the severity of the situation as well. Was consent withdrawn immediately, or "in the heat of the moment", was it a casual request or did it turn into a forceful encounter? All of this matters.

Do we really want to sentence a confused teen under the same hammer brought down on actual rapists?

This is exacly the point I am grappling with here. No means no is that mantra but ther are still shades of grey.

I do not think a man has the right to restrain or violently continue sex if she changes her mind in the midlle of sex, but rape is when you said no and he penetrates anyway. I don't think it is rape if she already said yes, but I do think it is wrong to not stop if asked (and loathesome and all the other things that have been said here).

Thank you for the well thought out response that addresses the grey area of this debate.

reply to post by spacekc929


I have not taken the side of any rapist or man who forces himself onto a woman when she says no.

I am debating whether it is rape after sex already begins and the grey area that surrounds this issue.

Sorry it sickens you that I am trying to have an open and mature discussion about this issue.

Peptol Bismal might help.

reply to post by oozyism


I agree completely, the amount of rape cases its getting ridiculous, how has society been shaped to act this way?
Whats even sadder is that it is so obvious where the answer is coming from, yet people are either completely oblivious or just take it as "normal"
I'm talking about the media ofcourse.
Like yeah ok, have a few drinks get pissed and have a good time! In no way am i against that. Im rather quite for it actually

but this media onslaught/bombardment of "sexuality" is wrong, and this is coming from the point of someone in this generation! Look at songs man, "take a dirty picture" like are you kidding? the amount of teenagers that get caught with provocative pictures is alarming.

and so then they are suprised when they see young adults raping/being raped. We are told that sex is a vital part of life, it is a big part of life but they tell us its a big part because of the enjoyment, not the sensual aspects of being intimate with a partner.
So yes, i think it has something to do with it.
But if you are aware of the bombardment, it has no effect on you what so ever

reply to post by Dogdish


Obviously I want my kids to do the right thing.

Just like I want all men to do the right thing, and all women to do the right thing.

reply to post by gallopinghordes


But she said yes, is this not a misrepresentation? No means no, but yes means maybe? That is confusing.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


You shouldn't have to apologise. You are just trying to dig deeper in a current issue
it is a sensitive issue though, so i can see why some people are getting irritated.
Its good you bring up female manipulation/abuse of sexual power, im sure there are many girls that scream rape when they are caught out.
For example, girl cheats on boyfriend, boyfriend finds out, girlfriend screams rape.
So yes the issue is quite grey, i dont doubt you there