Bigfoot/Sasquatch Fact or Fiction?

Also I thought I would also add that Gigantopithecus' remains are few and far between.

This is an ancestor to us and we have found but a few remnants of it. We have a few teeth and jaw bones.

[quote]Since then relatively few fossils of Gigantopithecus have been recovered. Aside from the molars recovered in Chinese traditional medicine shops, Liucheng Cave in Liuzhou, China has produced numerous Gigantopithecus blacki teeth as well as several jawbones.[3] Other sites yielding significant finds were in Vietnam and India.[2][4] These finds suggest the range of Gigantopithecus was southeast Asia

en.wikipedia.org...

So with something that obviously lived in our world we have very little evidence for it, barely enough to get an outline of what it is.

People need to understand that we know nothing about our oceans and discover new species daily, and that our forests have had as much isolation as the depths of our oceans.

To me I think it would be ignorant to write it off as an absolute 'no.' I keep my mind open and Jeff Meldrum has found quite a few interesting feet in his collection that cannot be explained as hoaxes.

www.bfro.net...

Food for thought.

Pred....

Originally posted by lunchtimedoublyso
I have a theory that can explain why this is both not a hoax and also not a different species. She may be a human woman with a genetic disease that is a variation of hypertrichosis.

"This "curse of the hair" could be caused by a primeval gene stemming from our animal ancestors. Scientists believe that many of these primeval genes still lie dormant in the human genome, and that they have simply been switched off during the course of evolution. A mutation in the victims of hypertrichosis could have led to such a gene being awakened from its million-year slumber." - www.spiegel.de...

Perhaps in her case several primitive genes were affected, giving her this large ape-like appearance. The above link mentions that females with this disease have found it more difficult to adapt in society than their male counterparts. Maybe she decided to live as a recluse in the wilderness, and possibly the makers of this footage realized this and that is why they now claim it's a hoax.

Perhaps, but the Patterson/ Gimlin video shows too much musculature to be a female suffering from hypertrichosis. So does the male figure at Star Mountain have the same issue? I doubt it:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/109acaad6a60.jpg[/atsimg]

Deleted this whole post, because I did not write this content.

reply to post by SLAYER69


I live in Northern MN and have heard a few tales of sightings. I have often wondered how they can hide themselves so well for so long. My hubby and I just had a conversation about this and he seems to think it's because there are still areas remote enough that man cannot trek into easily, if at all, such as swamps, forests, etc. That has always been my big question- how come we cannot track them and find them? They seem to be sightings in most regions of the country it seems. The audio's were very eery and I can't imagine being out camping and hearing those! My dog did sit up and perk her ears up when she heard them, I had to smile at that. I think she was a little unnerved by them, too. And yes, this certainly looks like a female one and I have seen this footage many times before and never once has that been brought to my attention.

If anyone has ever driven long distance cross country West to East or South to North esp in the western part of the US they'll quickly realize just how much land is still unused and uninhabited. Not to mention Canadian provinces There are thousands of square miles that may have been mapped but hardly traversed.

IMHO there is plenty of land where a small population can exist quite comfortably and never be discovered.

Originally posted by queenofsheba
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

I live in Northern MN and have heard a few tales of sightings. I have often wondered how they can hide themselves so well for so long. My hubby and I just had a conversation about this and he seems to think it's because there are still areas remote enough that man cannot trek into easily, if at all, such as swamps, forests, etc. That has always been my big question- how come we cannot track them and find them? They seem to be sightings in most regions of the country it seems. The audio's were very eery and I can't imagine being out camping and hearing those! My dog did sit up and perk her ears up when she heard them, I had to smile at that. I think she was a little unnerved by them, too. And yes, this certainly looks like a female one and I have seen this footage many times before and never once has that been brought to my attention.

You may or may not experience such things until you go camping way into the interior of National Parks. Even Teddy Roosevelt wrote in his journals of second hand events of Bigfoot. Look into Canadian account of such encounters.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Certainly they do not reside in the Sonoran Desert. Otherwise, someone would have seen Saguaros and other cacti torn to pieces. I am an avid hiker and I will say that that the Mogillon Rim area is the furthest they will go. The military knows this. They encountered them in an accidental incident on the East Coast during training. They actually go after their wounded. Do some research.

reply to post by Kratos40


Very interesting video. It looks like a large bipedal animal but it doesn't look like a bear to me. The head looks too small to be a bear.

Very interesting indeed.

EDIT - I'm referring to the McKenzie River footage.

Originally posted by Beast Of Gevaudan

1. What's that dark line that runs down the middle of it's back to it's buttocks? This is obvious in the still you posted in the OP. I think this might actually be a seam where the zipper is situated on the monkey suit.

It could very well be a line in a suit for a zipper. I however feel it is a line that follows the creatures spinal cord. Like everything about the creature in the video everything is larger and more pronounced IMO. Still we just don't know.

2. Watching the footage I can't help but notice how deliberate the walk is. This makes me think it's been staged. The walk looks too measured to me.

If it is a real bipedal mountain creature and not human it would know how to better navigate it's territory/habitat than we humans. Meaning, how to traverse rocks, stones and fallen logs etc. So it would seem IMO to stroll rather casually though such rough debris strewn terrain.

Originally posted by trailertrash

I encountered a road kill black bear in northern California last month while driving on eye 5 north of Mt. Shasta. If a bear can end up this was so can a biggefoote.

Funny you should mention that.

In Rockingham County, NC, about 6 or 7 years ago, people were reporting the presence of bears. Fish and Game stated repeatedly that there were NO bears in Rockingham County, to the point of exasperation. They maintained that there was NO evidence for bears there, despite witness testimonies.

Then a guy hit a bear on highway 220 in Rockingham County in his pickup truck. He loaded the carcass into the bed of the truck as evidence.

Fish and Game promptly charged him with "taking game out of season."

His defense? Impossible. There are NO bears in Rockingham County, per the fine folks at Fish and Game. If there are NO bears, he obviously couldn't have killed one, intentionally or not. I do believe his argument prevailed, and don't know what became of the non-existent bear carcass.

There are still NO bears in Rockingham County, despite this.

I used to live there, in a trailer in the middle of the woods, way off of a dirt road. I have personally seen bear tracks in the mud along Jacobs Creek, right at the base of the hill I lived on. Doubtless they were made by some ne'er do well with too much time on his hands, strapping wooden facsimilies to his shoes, because there are NO bears in Rockingham County. I do know what bear tracks look like, though. I'm from way up in the mountains, where bears DO live, according to the fine folks at Fish and Game.

Yup, if a bear can end up this way, so can a bigfoot. Eventually.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by abrowning
I actually really like this thread though I am not much of a believer in bigfoot.

One question I have for you regarding bigfoots um foot. Where are the toes? I can get past the light color, in fact I think you could also argue that the camera is possibly making it look much lighter than it really is, but I would expect to see toes.

That's a fair question it could possibly be anything really. The image is blown up and is a grainy black and white. Due to loss of definition it the toes could be lost. In the second video I believe it went into more details about the toes.

Could also be a slab of clay or mud stuck to the foot.

Or some combination of all of the above.

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by trailertrash

I encountered a road kill black bear in northern California last month while driving on eye 5 north of Mt. Shasta. If a bear can end up this was so can a biggefoote.

Funny you should mention that.

In Rockingham County, NC, about 6 or 7 years ago, people were reporting the presence of bears. Fish and Game stated repeatedly that there were NO bears in Rockingham County, to the point of exasperation. They maintained that there was NO evidence for bears there, despite witness testimonies.

Then a guy hit a bear on highway 220 in Rockingham County in his pickup truck. He loaded the carcass into the bed of the truck as evidence.

Fish and Game promptly charged him with "taking game out of season."

His defense? Impossible. There are NO bears in Rockingham County, per the fine folks at Fish and Game. If there are NO bears, he obviously couldn't have killed one, intentionally or not. I do believe his argument prevailed, and don't know what became of the non-existent bear carcass.

There are still NO bears in Rockingham County, despite this.

I used to live there, in a trailer in the middle of the woods, way off of a dirt road. I have personally seen bear tracks in the mud along Jacobs Creek, right at the base of the hill I lived on. Doubtless they were made by some ne'er do well with too much time on his hands, strapping wooden facsimilies to his shoes, because there are NO bears in Rockingham County. I do know what bear tracks look like, though. I'm from way up in the mountains, where bears DO live, according to the fine folks at Fish and Game.

Yup, if a bear can end up this way, so can a bigfoot. Eventually.

Look back a few to my earlier posts.

I was driving about 45 mph, when this thing crossed lrft to right. It was about 30 feet or so in front of me when I pushed my brakes. It looked at me, and then was gone. It knew that my car could do some damage to it, and it moved faster than anything i have ever seen move. They say gators can move fast? I lived in florida, and been to many a gator park. They are not fast relative to this thing.

This thing was big. 7 foot tall, and 300 lbs at least.was big and muscled like shaq
Not saying anything racist. But you can tell through the t shirt he is big and ripped.Thats what this thing was like, but it was grey. The shoulders were huge.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Beast Of Gevaudan

1. What's that dark line that runs down the middle of it's back to it's buttocks? This is obvious in the still you posted in the OP. I think this might actually be a seam where the zipper is situated on the monkey suit.

It could very well be a line in a suit for a zipper. I however feel it is a line that follows the creatures spinal cord. Like everything about the creature in the video everything is larger and more pronounced IMO. Still we just don't know.

2. Watching the footage I can't help but notice how deliberate the walk is. This makes me think it's been staged. The walk looks too measured to me.

If it is a real bipedal mountain creature and not human it would know how to better navigate it's territory/habitat than we humans. Meaning, how to traverse rocks, stones and fallen logs etc. So it would seem IMO to stroll rather casually though such rough debris strewn terrain.

True but its movement looks too measured. That's the impression I get anyway. If these really are shy creatures as mentioned by many people, then why wasn't the creature startled when it noticed them? Why didn't it flee?

Interesting video but unfortunately questions still remain.

Awesome thread Star and Flag!

I had a lecture at university a few years ago, which was our 'Christmas Treat' where the lecturer spoke to us for around 45 minutes about why he believes Big foot exists. He analysed the famous footage in detail, discussing the state of prosthetics in the movie industry etc at the time, and the realistic muscle movement of the creature. To date the most interesting and engaging lecture I have had.

Thanks for bringing back fond memories!

I just wanted to add another opinion to the Patterson film.

If you doubt the authenticity then I suggest you do the following:
1. Goto a river or creek and find an area relatively dry/flat. Preferably a rock bed. (that's where it took place)
2. Start at a normal stride and try to walk without losing your balance over the rocks.
3. Without any pause, try to look over your right shoulder, while walking on the rock bed, and not trip up.
(don't lose your stride)

Then come back to tell me your results. Try to do it casually too, not mocked.

I own land with a creek through it and walk the creek bed all the time.
It is NOT easy to walk without straining an ankle slightly. You HAVE to watch the ground.
You can easily slip or lose footing, especially if you are not paying attention!
When there are sticks and logs on the ground to watch for, it becomes even more adventurous.
With my size 11 feet, I have a hard time keeping my feet flat on the ground.
There are rocks everywhere that will twist and turn your ankles to the extreme.
Every time I walk the creek bed, my ankles are worked.

Unless you had an oversized, broad foot. (at least twice my size)
Like what you see in the film.


I'm just sayin'.

reply to post by Kratos40

The reason I lean toward affliction is because of how the creature casts a backward glance and walks deliberately away. This doesn't look like a typical fight or flight reaction, but like someone who wants to be left alone. If the disease is congenital then she may have family members or offspring, which could explain the other sightings and encounters.

Originally posted by havok
I just wanted to add another opinion to the Patterson film.

If you doubt the authenticity then I suggest you do the following:
1. Goto a river or creek and find an area relatively dry/flat. Preferably a rock bed. (that's where it took place)
2. Start at a normal stride and try to walk without losing your balance over the rocks.
3. Without any pause, try to look over your right shoulder, while walking on the rock bed, and not trip up.
(don't lose your stride)

Then come back to tell me your results. Try to do it casually too, not mocked.

I own land with a creek through it and walk the creek bed all the time.
It is NOT easy to walk without straining an ankle slightly. You HAVE to watch the ground.
You can easily slip or lose footing, especially if you are not paying attention!
When there are sticks and logs on the ground to watch for, it becomes even more adventurous.
With my size 11 feet, I have a hard time keeping my feet flat on the ground.
There are rocks everywhere that will twist and turn your ankles to the extreme.
Every time I walk the creek bed, my ankles are worked.

Unless you had an oversized, broad foot. (at least twice my size)
Like what you see in the film.


I'm just sayin'.

Ah! Now that makes a lot of sense! Thank you. This would explain the measured appearance to its movement ie the deliberate looking walk. You'd need to be concentrating on how and where you step in this area.
This adds some credibility to the film. Having said that I'm still not entirely sold on this being authentic, but that may simply boil down to me thinking this footage is too good to be true.

Slayer, seems this subject is as awe inspiring and split as it ever will be. I have some audio from my trip to Taos where a Warchief talks about his personal experience with the phenomena, he Say's that it is common knowledge and yet they give wide berth and tons of respect. He thinks that they are and always have been here and yet are always on the peripheral of humanity and civilization. They are part of nature itself and one of the mysteries they accept but dont give much hope for any ever being shot or caught.

Also my Grandpa tells of a time before Bigfoot was common knowledge, he was walking, hunting through the woods in N.Cal when he began tracking huge footprints, the step was about 6 feet apart and the weight in the dirt was right for a man that size, after smelling something which made his hair stand on end, he decided to retreat and just let it go because what was he going to do if he encountered something, someone of that size?

It was a few years later in the 40's that people began to discuss Bigfoot. He has never in life lied or tried to pull the wool over anyone's eyes, so yes he believes they do exist and that alone is good enough for me, he is now 95.

Originally posted by WeRpeons
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Interesting mystery, but the problem I have is where are all the rotting bigfoot carcasses? They can't live forever, and living in forests, I'm sure they've crossed paths with bears at some point in time. I can only see 1 reason for this and it's pretty far-fetched... they're visitors from another dimension or world. If these things are 7ft tall their skeletons shouldn't be that difficult to find. Anyone have an answer to why we never found a bigfoot carcass?

That's a valid question, regardless of one's belief/disbelief, and needs exploring. When one walks in the woods, how often do you run across the corpse' of bears? Or deer? Or any large animal? Not very often I'm betting. I certainly didn't/don't. Yet there is no doubt that bear, or deer exist.

You've never looked for anything in the woods/forest have you? It's incredibly difficult to find bodies, even if you know where to look. A good analogy is the intensive searches mounted for missing people, or for murder victims. Even if you know the general area to look in, how often do you read/hear..."Searchers, after an intense four day/four week search have had to call of the search for lack of progress...", or words to that effect? Most of the time it seems.

Nature's little house cleaners will generally take care of corpses laying out in the open. Bugs, coyotes, wolves, bears, and general natural breakdown of materials will remove it in rapid fashion. It's also been conjectured, though not proven, that Sasquatch is tribal in nature, living in small family groups, it's not a great stretch to see them burying their dead, or at the least secreting them away somewhere.

Whether that's what is going on? Don't know.

To each and every one of you claiming Gigantopithecus or some other lost species I have three names to say to you.

Each and every one of you will recognize the names.

Unless you've been living under a rock.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8b30ca719a6f.jpg[/atsimg]

David and Goliath

Quote from : Wikipedia : David and Goliath : Goliath's Height

The oldest manuscripts - 4QSam(a), the Dead Sea Scrolls text of Samuel), the first-century A.D. historian Josephus and the fourth century A.D. Septuagint manuscripts - all give the height of Goliath as “four cubits and a span”, about six and a half feet tall.

Later manuscripts increase his height to “six cubits and a span,” which would make him over nine feet tall.

Hebrew uses letters to denote numbers, and it is possible that the original letter dalet, or "four", became confused for vav, "six", between the earliest manuscripts and the later ones.

Anywhere from 6.5 (I'm 6'4") to 9 feet tall.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c9439ea9de11.jpg[/atsimg]

Andre the Giant.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Andre the Giant

André René Roussimoff (Bulgarian: Андрей Рене Руссимов; Polish: Andrzej Renat Russimow) (19 May 1946 – 27 January 1993), best known as André the Giant, was a French professional wrestler and actor.

He is also recognized from his role as Fezzik in the classic movie The Princess Bride.

His great size was a result of gigantism, and led to him being dubbed "The Eighth Wonder of the World".

In the World Wrestling Federation (WWF), Roussimoff briefly held the WWF Championship. In 1993, he was the first inductee into the WWF Hall of Fame.

No, this is not going to turn into a Bible lesson, I assure you, neither is it going to become a WWF wrestling match.

Except maybe a logistial lesson and a match of wits.

More specifically though I want to speak towards gigantism.

Quote from : Wikipedia Gigantism

Gigantism, also known as giantism (from Greek gigas, gigantas "giant"), is a condition characterized by excessive growth and height significantly above average.

This condition is caused by an over production of human growth hormone.

I'm using those references to Goliath and Andre to make a point about size, strength, and the hoaxes.

Giants - Part 1 - Pituitary Gigantism and Acromegaly


Giants - Part 2 - Robert Wadlow


Giants - Part 3 - Familial Tall Stature & MASS Syndrome


Giants - Part 4 - Medical Remedies - RIP Sandy Allen


Let us go to another continent shall we?

Tallest Woman in China - Guinness World Records


BIGFOOT, Malaysia proof


I bring up these three names, more important are the two, Goliath and Andre, because they are important.

One, it shows a precendence of historical fact of giants, during Biblical times, two, it shows massive strength yet gentleness, with Andre the Giant, and as well a precedent towards people who will not only use people of giant stature toward ill uses, warfare (Goliath), but towards showmanship and entertainment (Andre), but as well who is to say there are not more of these giants, who are taken into Government programs at an early age and indoctrinated into portraying the "Bigfoot hoax" through dressing as a ape-like beast towards scaring people away from secret underground facilities hidden in plain sight in National Parks or even isolated and barren places like the Himalayas (the Yeti)?

Let us go to a plaster cast comparison of an alleged "Bigfoot" foot verses a human for a moment.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/22fb6585cc0a.jpg[/atsimg]

Sorry, I still see a hoax being perpetuated, on a giant scale, pun intended.

Not convinced still?

How about a lesser known "giant" and more current individual named Matthem McGrory?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/eaa2c829d61f.jpg[/atsimg]

Quote from : Wikipedia : Matthew McGrory : Early Life

McGrory was born in West Chester, Pennsylvania. McGrory studied law at Widener University, where he resided in campus housing on the first floor of Howell Hall. McGrory grew to the height of 7 ft 6 in (2.29 m) and had size 29 shoes.

He was never tested for any physical abnormalities based on his height.

Underlined, Bolded, Italicized by SKL

Everything about "Bigfoot" can be accounted for if you're paying attention and ignoring the bluster and mystery and examine the evidence which is present with a criticial, neutral, and common sense based set of eyes, remembering that Government can, will, and does go to many lengths to hide things which are not hidden if you know how to decipher their hoaxes.