Any Dog can be taught to pray

These guys have had it all along, no thread for them..

I'm not saying it is, but are you denying that the people FEEL obliged to bow their heads and close their eyes, even if they have nothing to pray about? I'm not suggesting the church obliges them.

I am denying it and confirming it. There may be people who do feel obligated but there are also those who don't. But to compare a dog going through the motions to a real prayer is ridiculous. Churches do not arrange the service with intent of training people to pray on command. Its coordinated that way so everyone in congregation gets the same experience. Just like a school classroom, of course some students will daydream others will pay attention and some will fool around. So how should a church structure a worship service? Should it be just a free for all, a chaotic circus if people doing whatever they want at anytime? Or should a plethora of services be held so each person can go to one that befits them? That would be nice but there isn't enough time in the day to cater to everyones whim, but mostly its just lame PCness.

Originally posted by DrChuck
Churches do not arrange the service with intent of training people to pray on command.

You sure about that? I'm not saying that praying on command is their only agenda, but (IMO) it's one aspect of the whole religion/control mechanism.

So how should a church structure a worship service?

I don't even believe in worshiping, so I couldn't say. If I were king (or queen, actually), we wouldn't be worshiping anything or praying to anything. We'd be exploring our inner selves and claiming our own power and controlling our destiny instead of placing all the credit and blame for our lives on outside sources.

BUT, since the First Amendment (one of my favorites) guarantees the right to freedom of religion, I don't have any problem with what people do in their church. I just think it's part of a control mechanism and praying is part of that.

Should it be just a free for all, a chaotic circus if people doing whatever they want at anytime?

I believe some churches are JUST like that.

That would be nice but there isn't enough time in the day to cater to everyones whim, but mostly its just lame PCness.

If you think I'm suggesting ANYTHING to be politically correct, you're incorrect. I HATE PC.

Of course I don't think the dog praying is JUST like all people who pray, but I do think the dog learning to go through the motions of "praying" can be compared to SOME people, who go through the motions of praying. Not all people. Not you, certainly. But probably more people that you'd care to know go through the ritual of religious practices without really meaning it... just like the dog.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Indeed, I am encouraging others to figure out what to do for themselves.

Then they aren't figuring out anything for themselves.

If anybody took your words on board, then they would have been directly guided by you and your personal philosophy, and they would not have thought anything for themselves.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
I'm asking others to wake up to the fact that in all of their major changes in life from one belief system to another, they are not really changing at all... simply looking for the answer outside...

No, because if we except a corporeal reality to our fleeting existences, then every supposed external power, is in fact, an internal power or force that is created within our minds.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
I'm perfectly comfortable with paradoxes like this.

For example, the only thing I am ever certain of is that conviction is a blindness.

With respect, I'd suggest that you aren't comfortable with this.

You are creating a coping mechanism to make your life philosophy more palatable.

There is nothing wrong with thia; we all do something similar.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
But what you seem to fail to realize, is that there is a reason we humans do this... its because we are TRAINED to do this as children, much like this dog is being trained. And since we are all trained dogs... in order to change that we need to become our own masters.

You are correct that we are all ''trained dogs''; this is why I'm querying whether you genuinely believe that we have control, authority, or any kind of personal autonomy in our lives.

That just seems like desperation, to believe that.

Originally posted by HunkaHunkaAll I'm saying to the other dogs.. is stop listening to your external masters. Unless of course you are extremely happy already being submissive...

But, like I say; any ''external'' master that we have, is actually of internal origin...

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


You obviously don't understand the difference between the program, and the programming language.

Nor do you understand the structural method. If you did you would understand the role of the superego, and that most everyone is pushed around by this...

I'm simply stating that I regard the superego as a religious fanatic, it's loud but if you ignore it, it will go away.

Now I'm not saying what the user should program next into their CPU's... so no I'm not telling anyone what to believe. I'm simply making people aware of the fact that as long as you follow beliefs handed to you.... you are not living as a free person.

You want to discuss semantics... and in doing so you will miss the entire point... but that's ok. You go ahead and follow those rules of semantics that were given to you.

Oh, and to answer your question.... yes we do have participation in our world and our mind. The fact that the majority of us never exercise it, doesn't mean it's not there. We cannot control the chaos of the world, however we can empower our own will and create our own beliefs.

There is simply too much power and freedom in throwing off the motives of "the world" "the spirit of the times" "mammon", whatever you call it, than to dismiss it with some absolute cop-out of "everything comes from external forces". Yes, at some point, you are academically correct... but the actual experience and result that comes with taking the superegos hands off your emotional steering wheel, beats any academic argument any day.

In all fairness only the man was praying the dog was just begging. I have a different opinion on prayer though I think that prayer is verbalizing your intention and cocreating what you wish to experience. It's sharing love and knowledge and intention with those around you so we can more firmly hold that intention and change it into action and make differences in this world so it can be teh paradise it was destined to be. namaste family!!

Dogs don't need to pray, cause all dogs go to heaven. [o:

reply to post by Kailassa


Just for the record, wolves don't howl at the moon, they howl to mark the boundaries of their territory to keep other wolf packs out. Thanks!

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
You obviously don't understand the difference between the program, and the programming language.

I don't wish to sound snarky, but yes, I do.

The ''program'' can only be the universe, so the ''programming language'' becomes redundant, as we are a by-product of the aforementioned ''program''.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Nor do you understand the structural method. If you did you would understand the role of the superego, and that most everyone is pushed around by this...

Sorry, but you are talking nonsense here.

What ''structural method'' do you suppose that I ''don't understand'' ?

Isn't that a bit presumptuous ?

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
I'm simply stating that I regard the superego as a religious fanatic, it's loud but if you ignore it, it will go away.

And the ''superego'' is a figment of your imagination.

There's no such thing as a ''superego''. There's only an ego.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
You want to discuss semantics... and in doing so you will miss the entire point... but that's ok. You go ahead and follow those rules of semantics that were given to you.

I'm not discussing semantics.

I'm querying your assertion that someone has authority over their lives, when it is painfully obvious that we have absolutely no genuine control over our lives.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Oh, and to answer your question.... yes we do have participation in our world and our mind. The fact that the majority of us never exercise it, doesn't mean it's not there. We cannot control the chaos of the world, however we can empower our own will and create our own beliefs.

We have participation in the world, that is surely without doubt.

However, we cannot control the chaos in the world because we actively contribute to it !

We don't have any independent ''will'' or ''beliefs''... They are just an unavoidable result of our genetics and upbringing.