Any Dog can be taught to pray

Check this out...




This is proof positive that any animal can be taught to pray when it comes to meeting their primal needs.

And you better believe that everyone who is praying in public before a meal also is doing so for the same primal reasons....

Take back your authority... Be your own god.... stop believing in the fairy tales which were given to you.... instead, make up your own! I guarantee you, it will be better than what you have now.

This is a great thread. Hopefully creationists can see were we are coming from on this subject.

I wonder if animals without hands or head can pray?

My dog can roll over.
And count.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Oh please, are you serious? So a prayer is merely kneeling down and bowing your head? Even an unintelligent atheist would know that a prayer is much more than a yoga pose.

Originally posted by DrChuck
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

Oh please, are you serious? So a prayer is merely kneeling down and bowing your head? Even an unintelligent atheist would know that a prayer is much more than a yoga pose.

Look... I don't think Atheists are much better... the only difference between an atheist and a "believer" is that they have difference perspectives on what is an external authority... neither of them are typically secure enough to believe in their own authority over anything else. Both of them, much like this dog... well trained.

If you are well trained under the authority of someone or something else, then you are no different from another dog who is trained to obey a different master.

Now if you take full responsibility for your own life, and don't require any external authority to validate it... and write your own narrative according to your own rules... that's much different.

That's a beautiful blue heeler in the video.

It's not difficult to teach them to roll over, play dead, jump through hoops ...
They can even collect your slippers, the morning paper, and then the eggs from under hens and bring them into the kitchen for you so you have fresh eggs for breakfast. One guy I knew years back used to send his to the local milkbar to buy his ciggies.
It's not difficult to teach one of them to round up a herd of sheep and guide them to where you want.

So teaching one to make praying motions means what?

Since when has prayer been a physical position?

For all we know, dogs may actually pray.
Perhaps when wolves howl at the moon they are communicating with a higher being, or a group consciousness, or expressing a yearning for some such thing. Who knows?

If people prayed while boucing balls on their noses would that mean performing seals were praying?
If the seals were praying, would that disprove any religion or about god?


Argue against religion or against the existance of god all you like, but please try to bring a little logic to the table.

Great video! What a cute (and well-trained) puppy! And I see and agree with your point.

Originally posted by DrChuck
Oh please, are you serious? So a prayer is merely kneeling down and bowing your head?

I'd guess that for 99% of the children and 80% of adults, that's EXACTLY what it is. The same thing going through that dog's head while his head was bowed is going through most people's heads while someone else is reciting the words.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Look... I don't think Atheists are much better... the only difference between an atheist and a "believer" is that they have difference perspectives on what is an external authority... neither of them are typically secure enough to believe in their own authority over anything else.

I'm curious. Why do you think atheists don't believe in their own authority? Because I am one atheist who believes TOTALLY in her own authority. I thought most of us were that way, to be honest.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Very neat trick. Those BTH's are smart!

But the same goes to show for any animal, including humans...
Because we can be taught, from an early age, tricks on how to lie to people and steal.

While I won't get into the 'believer vs. non-believer' argument, I will say this:
Humans are being taught tricks everyday...just like animals.
And we do it, whether we like it or not.
Just like a dog.
"Pay your taxes! Even the ones you don't understand!"
"You can't get rid of the corruption in our gov't, so why fight it?"
"Don't look over here! We are distracting you so you think everything is ok!"
This is the biggest trick in the book and we all do it, whether or not we think it's wrong.

Just like a dog.
Whether or not it knows what it's doing, it knows that it will be rewarded for doing as it is taught.


Hmm...

Toromos:

"I wonder if animals without hands or head can pray?"

I take it, we're talking mammals here...without heads?


DrChuck:

" Even an unintelligent atheist would know that a prayer is much more than a yoga pose."

So what are churches for, as most of what's going on there, is ritualistic.


Kailassa:

" Argue against religion or against the existance of god all you like, but please try to bring a little logic to the table."

Personally: With great pleasure. But usually I find that religionists aren't that keen on it.


To be fair, I must admit to meeting atheists, who blindly follow THEIR authorities. I believe the real problem is elitist extremism.

But you can't be a passive member of the club: "Oh, I'm not THAT kind of nazi!"

That goes for everybody.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Take back your authority... Be your own god.... stop believing in the fairy tales which were given to you.... instead, make up your own! I guarantee you, it will be better than what you have now.

I don't understand.

Nobody has their own ''authority''.

Our entire existence is based on the actions of everybody and everything else.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Great video! What a cute (and well-trained) puppy! And I see and agree with your point.

Originally posted by DrChuck
Oh please, are you serious? So a prayer is merely kneeling down and bowing your head?

I'd guess that for 99% of the children and 80% of adults, that's EXACTLY what it is. The same thing going through that dog's head while his head was bowed is going through most people's heads while someone else is reciting the words.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Look... I don't think Atheists are much better... the only difference between an atheist and a "believer" is that they have difference perspectives on what is an external authority... neither of them are typically secure enough to believe in their own authority over anything else.

I'm curious. Why do you think atheists don't believe in their own authority? Because I am one atheist who believes TOTALLY in her own authority.

I thought most of us were that way, to be honest.

BH, this is why I edited for the word "typically" and I should also add, "according to my experience". The thing is, that I have met more atheists or (previous theists) who exchange religion for science as their ultimate sense of authority.

Not all mind you, there are folks like yourself, who, from what I can tell rely mainly on their own sense of truth.

I'm neither anti-religious or anti-atheist. I believe that the effect that a belief in a higher power has on our minds is a force that should be harnessed within ourselves, not simply dismissed as the result of superstition. I also believe that this power should come under the authority of the individual, and to the degree that someone continues to stridently believe in a story "given" to them, then their lives are ultimately being guided by someone else.

I guess I'm just a radical individualist ;-)

Thanks for putting me in check.

Originally posted by havok
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

Very neat trick. Those BTH's are smart!

But the same goes to show for any animal, including humans...
Because we can be taught, from an early age, tricks on how to lie to people and steal.

While I won't get into the 'believer vs. non-believer' argument, I will say this:
Humans are being taught tricks everyday...just like animals.
And we do it, whether we like it or not.
Just like a dog.
"Pay your taxes! Even the ones you don't understand!"
"You can't get rid of the corruption in our gov't, so why fight it?"
"Don't look over here! We are distracting you so you think everything is ok!"
This is the biggest trick in the book and we all do it, whether or not we think it's wrong.

Just like a dog.
Whether or not it knows what it's doing, it knows that it will be rewarded for doing as it is taught.


Hmm...

You saw the very point I was trying to make... thank you for describing it so eloquently. To me pavlovian conditioning is simply another form of hypnosis that occurs everyday, whether it be religious, political, economic etc...

But the thing is we "let" this stuff happen by accepting truths which are handed to us as opposed to those which come from within.

Here is another great example of the mind crime that has been perpetrated on these trained dogs.

I just received a little nastygram on my profile page...

Comment from: NOTHING 4 NO ONE on: 24-9-2010 @ 11:24 AM
YOU SOUND LIKE A COMPLETE DOUCHE. WHAT ARE YOU SOME KINDA HOMO? CUZ I KNOW FOR SURE YOU AIN'T NO GOD. YOU'RE THE BIGGEST NARCISSIST FAG I'VE EVER CAME ACROSS. SORRY PAL, BUT WITH A DESCRIPTION OF YOURSELF LIKE THAT YOU HAD IT COMING. GO MAN UP, JOIN THE MARINES OR SOMETHING.

To which I replied

Comment from: HunkaHunka on: 24-9-2010 @ 11:38 AM
lol... Ok... What If I told you I already served my time in the military?

And what do you have against homos? You think because I assume my own authority in my lifes directions that I am homosexual? That's an odd correlation. Last time I checked, the right to ones pursuit of happiness was a rather American Ideal. How are you to pursue your own happiness if you go around believing stuff other people tell you?


And yes Manning up is exactly what I encourage everyone to do by being their own God. Take ultimate responsibility for your life, and when you do the only morality test is "How's that helping my pursuit of happiness?"

Do you see how angry these dogs can become when the trigger which brings them the satisfaction they have been trained to exchange for their own authority is criticized?

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Now who's preaching..

Why do you even care anyway?

For the record. My dog can sit, sit pretty, stay, roll over, shake, speak, touch (jumping and then touching my hand on command).. Doesn't mean anything.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
I also believe that this power should come under the authority of the individual, and to the degree that someone continues to stridently believe in a story "given" to them, then their lives are ultimately being guided by someone else.

Once again, everybody's lives are being guided by other people.

Nobody has any power, authority or personal autonomy over their lives and thought process, because every point of reference in our memories and thought constructs are based on experiences involving environmental factors and personal interactions that we have no control over.

For someone to genuinely believe that they have control or authority over their own existence, then that is delusional.

this isn't prayer and comparing this act of habit to a conscious prayer to the supreme is rediculous. Surely you are not taking yourself seriously.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Perfectly illustrates how something is learned, even when it's not logical....

For the dog, though (from his POV) it IS no different than doing any other trick, or "requirement", before being allowed to eat.

I'm wondering about the motives of the MAN in the video, though? Based on what he's saying....

Is he making the same point as you, OP? (Good one, BTW --- that I agree with).

OR....is this guy actually so twisted that he thinks it's "helping" the dog in some way? IOW, is the man a religious nutjob? Or not......

I'd also like to point out that it's an extreme stretch to say that the dog is praying.

It is clearly just bowing its head, mimicking humans.

To say that this constitutes ''praying'' is akin to teaching a dog how to open and look at a Stephen Hawking book, while claiming that it's reading and comprehending it.

Originally posted by bogomil

Originally posted by Kailassa
Argue against religion or against the existance of god all you like, but please try to bring a little logic to the table."

Personally: With great pleasure. But usually I find that religionists aren't that keen on it.

Sadly. there's some truth to that, which is why, in arguments like this, my stars usually go to free-thinkers.
I enjoy a well thought out argument from either side or from those on neither side.
However the OP is not making an argument. He's just illustrating his belief that prayer is a meaningless role-play.

And I always enjoy a video of that favourite Australian dog, Nemesis of Aligators, the Blue Heeler.