The 80-year-old victim of thugs' fatal trap: 'Bullied' woman dies after falling into manhole

reply to post by Essan


Yup, go have a read

It pays to know these things, even if only to show up ignorant foreigners who think they know better.

reply to post by stumason


30 shekels says they just rob you and take everything you got.

and laugh at you and your wasted typing as they run off.

i keep reading these stories from uk and shake my head..
looking at it from arizona , where you can pack your gun most anywhere-
and are allowed to use it in certain instances..
you can take a course and carry it concealed.
you can defend yourself- we dont need no stinking badges.
and as illustrated - if you cant defend it - it's not yours..
who in their right mind puts up with such murderous savages?
it's not mischief- it's not pranks by disaffected youth..
it's murderous packs of savages -allowed to throw rocks at an old woman?
vandalize her home? and then murder her. in a most cowardly way.
how much shame can the citizen bear in uk?
i read about yobs and chavs and how these retarded bands of punks
are allowed to walk the streets is beyond me..
i'll pop the shotgun off in the ground just once
then i level it at whoever is still standing around-
maybe thats why they call it a scatter gun.
the park and playground i live across from is a
nice place for kids to hang out..they are rowdy-
they are loud- they dress funny- but they are not malicious types.
no gang/ no hang - not in my hood. which i defend.

Originally posted by stumason


Ah yes, how foolish of us. Guns solve all problems, even those that are scoio-economic. Just shoot them all!

Anyhoo, back in the real world, it has already been touched upon that the behaviour of some youngsters in the UK is as a result of a decade or more of having our responsibilites taken away from us by Labour. That will change, however, as pretty soon these oiks and their families will actually have to go out an earn a living or face starvation.

On the "right to bear" question, where do you think your Constitution and Bill of Rights got their idea's from? Quite alot of them came from English common law, which includes the Bill of Rights 1689. In thuis Bill is a right to bear arms and we still can own guns, you know.

Thing is, guns have never been popular amongst the masses, even when we could own all sorts of them and they certainly didn't help solve crime back in the 1800's when, as a result of a massive crime wave, the Metropolitan Police were formed.

Please, if you're going to criticise, be informed.

Oh I'm very informed... the whole concept of Might Makes Right was born on that Island....

Unfortunately it left for the new world....

Trouble with stories like this is that you don't hear about the 1,000 other cases where neighbours intervened early enought, prevented any trouble and maybe turned the kids around to respecting their neighbours and neighbourhood.

When I did that it wasn't even mentioned on page 34 of the local free newspaper.

Anyway, guns are not the issue so can we drop them please? Though I would like to see an 80 year old grannie taking out a gang of hoodlums with an uzi

i've lived in lawless areas..seen plenty of street justice in third world countries.
i guarantee you the issue is self defense and defending your loved ones.
as the world grinds into ruination , there will be no police- roving packs of youth will be even
more ruthless. i cite the Katrina experience - cops ran out of bullets- then ran for their life.
it can be that bad that quick. usa borderlands are war zones -infrastructure crumbles.
what happens when the power goes off ? when the food runs out? -i dont feel like
dropping my gun..issue. even if you ask me pretty please..

Originally posted by Laurauk
reply to post by Yissachar1

 

But are you not condoning violence with violence? Their parents should be held to account for thier childen's actions. Jailing the parents would be sufficient. Flogging or Whiping is a little extreme is it not?

A little extreme compared to terrorizing someone and then actually killing someone through the act of terrorizing them? Regardless of intention, whether they meant for her death to occur, their actions did cause her death.

And I really don't see how the parents can be held accountable in some circumstances.

I had a brother that got into trouble throughout his whole life and my parents did everything they could think of to help him.

One time, he got in trouble for something called criminal damaging. My parents let him sit in jail for three or four weeks before his court case came up, to enable him to see what life would be like if he kept going down the same path. Nothing changed. Finally they gave him the choice of being made to leave home (he had no means of support) or joining the service, which he did. Even that didn't help. Long story short, he ended up dying in prison.

Can you force a person to change just by asking them to? If the parents try physical intervention with their children, sometimes that ends in the parents being prosecuted, because the "children's rights" might be violated.

No, I think the best thing to do would be to bring back the "stock" or something similar. You know, being forced to sit in the middle of town square holding a sign telling people what you did that caused you to end up there. And then after, depending on the circumstances behind the event, some supervised work at the person's house they targeted, or something similar.

Maybe the embarrassment and shame of being made an example would make a change more likely.

There seems to be so much hooliganism in the UK. Is there really that many roving gangs of teenagers causing problems or has the media overblown it? The stories make it seem like every street is dangerous to walk down.

Where are the police? Why are they scarred of kids?pp

reply to post by sezsue


So floggin or whipping someone in public is not extreme?

Get a grip. Condoning violence with violence does not resolve the situation. I think maybe you and I have diffirent ideas in how to deal with this. Gunning them down, Flogging or Whipping them in public is not the answer.

The blame lie with the parents of those youths who cause this shocking death. The blame also lies with the Police, for not doing or acting on the complaints that were lodged by this woman and others. Oh I have seen several incidents where I live, where the youths terrorize people. When the parents are confronted, they deny thier child is involved until it is actually shown to them on CCTV. Happens all the freakin time.

Originally posted by Laurauk
reply to post by Yissachar1

 

But are you not condoning violence with violence? Their parents should be held to account for thier childen's actions. Jailing the parents would be sufficient. Flogging or Whiping is a little extreme is it not?

What did the parents have to do with this? Maybe if beating your kids wasn't such a taboo in this day and age things like this would not be happening because of this little thing called discipline. Instead it is considered assault if you backhand your kid for being ignorant, so they are pretty much allowed to do whatever they want until they reach a certain age where they can be tried as an adult in court.

Originally posted by Laurauk
reply to post by sezsue

 

The blame lie with the parents of those youths who cause this shocking death. The blame also lies with the Police, for not doing or acting on the complaints that were lodged by this woman and others.

edit on 24-9-2010 by Laurauk because: (no reason given)

I will respectfully disagree w/ this portion of your post. The action of the kids are what caused the death. Not the parents. Although the parents helped shape their children into their present state of being, they did not directly cause the death. The buck stops at the kids.

The inaction of the police is a separate issue worthy of its own discussion.

Originally posted by Laurauk
reply to post by sezsue

 

So floggin or whipping someone in public is not extreme?

Get a grip. Condoning violence with violence does not resolve the situation. I think maybe you and I have diffirent ideas in how to deal with this. Gunning them down, Flogging or Whipping them in public is not the answer.

The blame lie with the parents of those youths who cause this shocking death. The blame also lies with the Police, for not doing or acting on the complaints that were lodged by this woman and others. Oh I have seen several incidents where I live, where the youths terrorize people. When the parents are confronted, they deny thier child is involved until it is actually shown to them on CCTV. Happens all the freakin time.

edit on 24-9-2010 by Laurauk because: (no reason given)

Though you are right about where the blame lies as it relates to the raising of predators, that does not mean a good deterrent of public flogging wouldn't assist in making sure this doesn't occur as often as it already does.

reply to post by Protostellar


And if thier parents knew what thier kids were up to? Do you think they would be shocked. Just shows, how apathetic some parents are nowadays, letting thier kids go out to all hours, and allowing them to run around causing harm to others. Yes the parents should be held to account for thier childrens actions. Maybe then it would be a deterrant to other parents.

But you have the right to your opinion as I do. That I respect.

reply to post by Laurauk


I didn't suggest flogging or whipping anyone. I actually suggested that putting out of control people in public forcing them to acknowledge their deeds might be helpful.

I asked you if flogging or whipping someone was more extreme, in your view, than the original act of terrorizing someone to the point that it caused their death.

But, in any case, if whipping someone (without causing lasting physical damage) caused them to change their actions for the better, then maybe it would be better to be used as an intervention, than for a person to go unchecked, and die in prison, which these teens may end up doing.

Originally posted by Laurauk
reply to post by Protostellar

 

And if thier parents knew what thier kids were up to? Do you think they would be shocked. Just shows, how apathetic some parents are nowadays, letting thier kids go out to all hours, and allowing them to run around causing harm to others. Yes the parents should be held to account for thier childrens actions. Maybe then it would be a deterrant to other parents.

But you have the right to your opinion as I do. That I respect.

For what it's worth I do not disagree about the parents doing a piss-poor job of raising their children.

reply to post by sezsue


I never suggested floggin or whipping those youths involved, I was replying to another members comments. Maybe you have misunderstood my postings. Also if you read what I have posted One is totally against whipping or flogging, that is far too extreme in my opinion. But its my own opinion, not that that counts for much nowadays since some other members would rather gunn them down. Or advocate such extreme punishments.

That is fine.

Originally posted by dthwraith
My question is a simple one, how come the other adults don't come out and stop these punks?

Here's why. They don't have the authority to do so. If decent citizens were to step up and do something, they would be in a legal tangle by disrupting the civil rights of these punks.

In my area, a man got so fed up with his daughter being bullied by other kids on a school bus that he got on the bus and started making threats to the kids bullying her. He was charged for communicating threats and I couldn't blame him. He's already gone to the school several times about the other kids abusive behavior towards his daughter and nothing was done.

To make matters worse, the school bus had two monitors on the bus and neither one spoke english. The father got mad after the other kids put a condom on his daughters head. She's only thirteen years old.

The punks that did this to the 80 year-old woman should be executed. Why? The total disregard for the health and well-being of the elderly. If they did this to someone elderly, anyone else is fair game.

Originally posted by Intelearthling

Originally posted by dthwraith
My question is a simple one, how come the other adults don't come out and stop these punks?

Here's why. They don't have the authority to do so. If decent citizens were to step up and do something, they would be in a legal tangle by disrupting the civil rights of these punks.

See to me thats just a cop out... if a few people disrupt their civil rights and a few punks end up dead or maimed, then the punks would learn the community makes the law. Sure it's illegal... but hey... I'd rather break the law than live in fear within a state where the law was impotent in maintaining the peace.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


But it is not a cop out as you put it. When People do get invovled, they are the ones who is arrested and charged, There has been numeous articles, detailing People taking the law into their own hands and getting into trouble for it. But what does one do, the they the police are there to protect them, do nothing at all, but give those invovled a caution, and ASBO, most teenagers nowadays who get an ASBO go around wearing it like a Trophy.

II will say again target the parents, threaten to take away thier children. In ones opinion, the Social Services, Police, Courts, need to come down hard on this.

Originally posted by RelentlessLurker
if the old lady had a handgun, this would have never happened. its that simple.

That must be a special type of handgun only sold in America that stops little old ladies falling down manholes in the dark.
Gotta get me one of those.

Btw, when the little old ladies have pistols, the louts in street gangs have Uzis.
Gun makers get rich and no-one's any safer.