The 80-year-old victim of thugs' fatal trap: 'Bullied' woman dies after falling into manhole

reply to post by Laurauk

I agree target both the parents and kids, however the parents themselves in these families can be just as ferral as the kids. Their little darlings can do no wrong and even create violence themselves when approached by their kids behaviour.. There has been cases ocer the last year where one father actually encouraged his sons behaviour!

Soft soaping, ASBO's or court intervention does not work. These people are beyond conviction , the police dont want to know and have failed us. The police chief commisioner admitted their failure today. We will have to start policing our own communities and put the fear of God into them. They must be put under no illusion that their behaviour will not be tolerated, court orders and police are just laughed at by these people. Standing up to them will.. Even if that means giving them a good kicking will.. They made that 80 year old lady fall into a deep hole! They broke her windows, they taunted her and bullied her! If this was my Nan they would all be needing intense medical treatment because kids or not, I would make them bleed! If they want to play wee hard men, then they will get a mans kicking... The communities must start making these peoples lives very uncomfortable.. It the only way

reply to post by Yissachar1


And become what Vigilante groups?

That in itself is going way down a slippery slope. I for one will not advocate it. History repeats itself no matter what way you look at it. Did not Hitler rise through the ranks because of this?

Do we want to be in the situation were you might be on the opposite side of your own son or daughter?

Hows about taking some responsibility for you and your families actions, or is that too much to ask in todays society!

This is an upsetting subject to me so, I am trying to be civil and not become emotional, but at times I have to be, for that One does apologise, no offence is meant what so ever.... Just thought I would add this.

reply to post by Laurauk

Im not disrespecting what you are saying, and yes, you are right, taking responsability for your own and families actions is the way to go, but these people do not think they need to do that, will justify anything, and are usually uneducated ferals who only understand the language of violence..

In an ideal world your way would be the way to go everytime, but its way past that now. People are actually dying! Dying because of these assholes! A little lip from kids has become bullying and intimidation to death! They have no sense of right and responsability and neither does their parents..

Vigilanteism will increase in the years to come because the police and justice system are useless.. Sad. .

reply to post by fgifdia


Wtf dude?

Are unsolicited adverts allowed on ATS?

I think not

Originally posted by Kailassa

Originally posted by RelentlessLurker
if the old lady had a handgun, this would have never happened. its that simple.

That must be a special type of handgun only sold in America that stops little old ladies falling down manholes in the dark.
Gotta get me one of those.

Btw, when the little old ladies have pistols, the louts in street gangs have Uzis.
Gun makers get rich and no-one's any safer.

had she brandished her .45 the first time these kids ever gave her problems the manhole incident would never have happened. or any of the other many instances, as the article says they have been harassing her for a while.

as much as you all think they will come back with a small army and uzi's, odds are they have never even seen a gun and will run away with tail between their legs.

reply to post by Yissachar1


Well if you are into taking the law in to your own hands then on you go, you suffer the consequencies off others whi have went through the exact same thing. Until it is too late. Say you take a youtfull's life, oks, whom do you think it is going to affect?

You your children, (If you have any)) , your wife, your immdeiate family.

You know in hinesight, it is a no wonder some people committ suicide, because they have no where to turn to, no one to talk to. With this sort of constant harrassment and intimidation invovled. Memeber moke me for my comments. But being there seeing it, and having to deal with it. Unless you have been through such things as this, then who are others to judge.

very sad indeed, it's so sad to see that people not only don't respect their elders anymore they also don't even enough shame where they'll even terroize the elderly.

I'm sure this happens in my neck of the woods too but it's still culture shock

No offense to anyone but i've been to northern England and it's kind of a weird place
Once I stayed at my cousin's house and some drunkard kept knocking on the door asking for directions, my cousin gave it to him but the drunkard kept saying open the door, open the door and show me, kept banging the door over and over again.

Then a few days later I saw a man run with a woman on his shoulder, I told this person stand near me and I said "hey did you see that?", he said what, I said "a man just ran accross the grass and had a woman on his shoulder" and he said "ya probably a rapist, it's common", and i'm like what, you guys are so stoic about this?

My brother in law then came to visit me while I was living in Ohio for a short time, and he was in my living room and said "Hey bro the door is open"... I looked back at the front door and said what? "he said the door is open", I was like okay are you cold? He said no but the door is open...

I said so.. are you cold?

He was so surprised to see the door open, it was only 2PM too, he said in england you don't leave your door open, you close it and lock it.

I could never live in that environment... always living in fear....

however...

Last night Mrs Ward’s devastated family called for police to wake up to the ‘disease’ of anti-social behaviour.

Police aren't psychologists....
I do not agree with this, this isn't the police's job.

reply to post by Laurauk


In parts of the west mids where i live there are young kids with guns who regulary kill innocent people, gang fighting etc.. The police and justice system are just laughed at.

I would protect my wife and kids and my neighbours if anything happened, using the minimum force necessary.. That is my job as a man, and as a soldier it is what I have had to do my whole adult life...

I think what would help the situation is to bring back community spirit like the old days.. But people do not speak to their neighbours, and old folks or single people can go for days without speaking to anyone. Its like there are lots of lonely people out there all wanting the same thing yet just pass each other by like ships in the night.. Sad.. If we could just get back to the old ways huh?

reply to post by Yissachar1


One certainly does think the community spirit has been derailed by the PC, Posh Tosh.

Kids nowadays cannot have a good day out without all the health and safety instructions that are given out. Totally going O.t.t., if you know that word then you will know what one is commenting about. When I was younger, oh goodness those days , We had Youth groups, youth centres, to take the kids off the streets, and get them away from crime.

I do not want to say it but One has to, under the previous government, that wa taken away, plus with what those greedy Bankers done to us all. We as a population, are suffering as a result. I understand it is a no wonder youths are going off the rails nowadays. But there it no justification for what these youths did to this old lady.

If It means bringing thier parents to answer for their actions then so be it. Maybe then other parents in the UK will wake up to what thier children get up to nowadays.

I do respect your views, although might vier from my own views. But either way it is good to discuss each
others views one supposes.

Originally posted by wackowillie
To be totally honest this is all going to far.

My thinking is (Male, 18 years old) if you take a life, You get your taken away from you. If your guillty without and question,

No Bail.
No Jail.

You should be taken out back and delt with.

I am sick to the back teeth with the these dickheads ruining our society.

I have known of people that have been charged for murder and given a life sentence, 7 years later they are out due to "good Behavior", back out with normal folk, ready to offend again.

Im sorry if it is a bit extreme, This is just my feeling.

Something needs to be done.

edit on 24-9-2010 by wackowillie because: (no reason given)

I understand how you feel but that is simply absurd. You are assuming that 1) violent crimes are carefully calculated acts done by cold-blooded psychos, and 2) that people are incapable of change or reform.

The reality is that most violent crimes - the vast majority - are acts of passion where a situation turns from volatile into explosive. Most of us are simply animals with a thin mask of civility. No offense but your "solution" is extremely primitive, along the lines of the people who commit these crimes - your solution is a knee-jerk reaction, which is exactly what most of those violent crimes were - knee-jerk reactions with no thought whatsoever.

I have a HUGE beef with the prison system because of this - prisons are not intended to reform or enlighten or change people, but merely to punish them. The biggest deterrent for jail is also absurd - it's not being locked up behind bars away from your life, but the fear of getting sodomized. It's such a huge problem in prisons that it's obvious - no one cares about prisoners. Nobody.

reply to post by Son of Will


So you seem to be saying that instead of punishing people who murder innocent people, you put them up in a cozy room with some tea, sit down with them and figure out who wounded their inner child, and make them see that killing innocent old ladies isn't a great thing to do, so they can be released into society and happy and productive. That's a super awesome message to send. Are you feeling overwhelmed by life? Are you upset, or depressed? Just kill somebody's grandma so you can get a free stay in a nurturing, loving, and tender environment. That's the answer to your problems, murder the innocent.

Sorry, I say fry the bastards.

Originally posted by Laurauk
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

But it is not a cop out as you put it. When People do get invovled, they are the ones who is arrested and charged, There has been numeous articles, detailing People taking the law into their own hands and getting into trouble for it. But what does one do, the they the police are there to protect them, do nothing at all, but give those invovled a caution, and ASBO, most teenagers nowadays who get an ASBO go around wearing it like a Trophy.

II will say again target the parents, threaten to take away thier children. In ones opinion, the Social Services, Police, Courts, need to come down hard on this.

I'll tell you what one does... one goes to jail for defending himself, one at a time until the jails are overcrowded... If you were serious about taking back your streets, that's exactly what you would do... there'd be another punk knocked out and another fine community man arrested every single night until this crap stopped!

quick question for members who live in areas where kids are taking over and harrassing people
Do you have community watch organizations? Groups of townspeople united against these gangs?

Originally posted by drock905
There seems to be so much hooliganism in the UK. Is there really that many roving gangs of teenagers causing problems or has the media overblown it? The stories make it seem like every street is dangerous to walk down.

Like all countries, the problems are mostly limited to certain inner city areas and the vast majority of us never experience these things. In 44 years I've never once felt uncertain about walking down the street late at night, nor felt the need to lock my doors.

The media only report the bad, never the good.

reply to post by RelentlessLurker


Do you really believe that in a society where 80 year old women carry handguns, hoodlums would not have access to more powerful weapons?

But maybe that is the case in the USA? Gangs don't have guns, just the elderly and those with young families, purely for protection against gangs who might shout at them?

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by Yissachar1

 

This wouldn't happen if you had the second amendment rights that we do in the US.

One yob shot in the head and this malarke would stop as cold as that yobs worthless heart.

Yeah, cos you don't have this problem in the U.S,

reply to post by Yissachar1


Wow, what happened to simple crank calls? This is criminally sinister. I hope everyone involved is caught and sentenced.

Originally posted by Yissachar1
reply to post by Laurauk

 

In parts of the west mids where i live there are young kids with guns who regulary kill innocent people, gang fighting etc.. The police and justice system are just laughed at.

I would protect my wife and kids and my neighbours if anything happened, using the minimum force necessary.. That is my job as a man, and as a soldier it is what I have had to do my whole adult life...

I think what would help the situation is to bring back community spirit like the old days.. But people do not speak to their neighbours, and old folks or single people can go for days without speaking to anyone. Its like there are lots of lonely people out there all wanting the same thing yet just pass each other by like ships in the night.. Sad.. If we could just get back to the old ways huh?

I couldn't agree with you more, and I too come from the west midlands.
I think it had been a deliberate plan to get us all frightened/suspicious of each other, apart from going to work, we are kept indoors by our big screen t.v,s, games consoles, mind numbing t.v shows etc etc, and on top of that, the media pump us full of over inflated horror stories to make us believe that we can trust no one and that everyone is out to get us.
The media have us believe that all adolecents are our enemy, but in fact it's total bull. Yeah, there are some problem kids out there, but no more than there were 20, 40, 60 years ago, there just seems to be more cos the population has grown and more of it gets reported.
I think we are victims of divide and conquer.
I'm not saying there isn't a "real" problem with the younger generation, but i do think it's over sensationalized to create divisions.

reply to post by NonKonphormist


Thing is though, none of this really new. Go back through any decade and I guarantee you can find comparable stories of the "Youth" being "out of control" etc etc etc...

Admittedly, it may seem like things are worse, but remember we have 24hr news channels and internet websites that have to fill the airwaves and column inches, so things are reported these days that otherwise would not have made the news in the 70's, 80's and 90's.