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Is It Time To Restructure Our Minimum Wage Laws?

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posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 05:38 PM
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the gov't (federal, state, county, and local) hands out tax credits, grants, and well, a ton of money to get businesses to start up, move to, hire more, ect.....

I think they should have these companies hand over a record of their payroll.....how many employees they have, earning how much! and well, if the company is found to be paying extremely high salaries to a few, and really pathetic (enabling their employees to be on the welfare rolls) to many, well, then they shouldn't get the tax credits, the grants, the gov't contracts, ect.

this doesn't mess with the minimum wage law, and it doesn't overstep the boundaries that most see as should be confining the gov't (although the tax credits, grants, gov't contracts, ect...often are!!), it is just the gov't taking control of the money that we give them, and using it to encourage behavior that would benefit the country as a whole. (and, well, they do that all the time)




posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 05:54 PM
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reply to post by Alxandro
 


I never said that everyone should be paid equally, I only said that they should be paid fairly. There is no excuse for the ever widening gap between CEO and employee pay. Unless of course, it is our intention to allow a few to walk away with the wealth of many.

The only way I can think of to keep the ratio in check is to insure that the top pay is correlated with the bottom pay in some way. If I'm not mistaken, Ben & Jerry's has a business model similar to what I'm talking about and I've heard of other healthy companies that do as well.



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 06:07 PM
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reply to post by dawnstar
 


Thanks for the response. You have pointed out another problem with the existing system.

When a company pays it's employees at a level below that needed to sustain the necessities of life, that employee becomes a burden on society and the taxpayers have to make up the difference by providing the needed social services. I believe that this is a corporate strategy for disguising the true cost of their products. Just one more reason that I think we need to revisit the minimum wage concept.

Or then maybe, we could consider adopting a maximum wage. Imagine the uproar that would cause.



edit on 23-9-2010 by Flatfish because: misspelling



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 06:23 PM
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reply to post by 2manyquestions
 


Let me ask you this; Where in this country can an individual pay rent & utilities, feed & clothe themselves and remain healthy on $300.00 gross pay per week? This doesn't even take into account any dependents whatsoever.

If he can't afford these things then we, the taxpayers, are making up the difference through social services and the company is sluffing off part of the true cost of their product on us.

It's like health care, if a persons employer is not providing it or at least paying the employee enough to afford his own private policy, then we the taxpayers are picking up a portion of the true cost of maintaining a healthy workforce for that employer. It's not just that company's employees that are getting screwed, we all are.



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 06:26 PM
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Originally posted by ofhumandescent
I say we give the people that really affect our society, teachers, social workers, day care givers, the people that give you your McBreakfast and cleans your toilets -comparable wages vs the ass&oles who sit with their feet upon their desk and really just plan how to screw over the rest of humanity.

Now come on, logically speaking, an actor or CEO should not really earn the millions of dollars they pull in...........come on people, compute what the real value of actual value is.


You're assuming that all a CEO does all day is sit in his big leather chair with his feet resting on top of his big oak desk, collecting millions of dollars in his sleep. It's not like the movies.

There are a few who enjoy screwing people over, true, but what class in our society DOESN'T have somebody who thinks of nothing all day but how to screw someone out of a buck? We're talking petty thieves, burglars, drug dealers, lawyers, restaurant owners, con artists, ordinary people who might sell you a broken car, and the list goes on. We've got criminals in every tax bracket, not just high up. Much like in the lower and middle class sections you'll find people who are good, and people who are bad. To simply assume that someone who rakes in millions of dollars a year is a terrible person, doesn't seem right.

It's easy to vilify rich people when you're poor. While you have trouble paying rent and feeding your kids, you've got some "a$$%*&" driving to his mansion in his Ferrari. What a jerk! How dare he earn so much money while I've got trouble paying my electricity bill??? He must be one of those greedy dirt-bag CEOs or Corporation owners, living off the labor of the poor. Guess what.... not every rich person was handed a million dollars when they were born. Most of them had to work for it, and they started with nothing. An idea was born, and it took years of planning to put it into production and into stores. One man or woman was able to take an idea and transform it into a company that began to pay the salaries of hundreds of people. Without the idea and without follow-through there would have been no jobs, no benefits, no product beneficial to society in one way or another.

The beautiful thing is that EVERYONE (at least in the U.S.) has the capability to turn an idea into millions. The trouble is being sharp enough to recognize a good idea when it comes, and dedicated enough to bring it to life even if it takes years to do.

While I'm not happy with the way some businesses are being managed (and they should be called out for crooked practices), I'm not going to vilify all the rest of them just because they're richer than me. I can thank my lucky stars that someone was innovative enough to come up with soft tissues for my nose when I have a cold, and I can be grateful that thanks to the idea, thousands of people are now employed, able to afford to buy the products I'd like to sell.

So, in the end.. what is a CEO worth? Why not millions? If a CEO can transform a company and help it expand all over the globe, therefore making it possible to employ thousands of people in multiple countries, why shouldn't he/she be able to earn millions? How many people in the world could have taken that same business and help it become more profitable? Seeing as businesses succeed and fail all the time, it seems to me that you really have to have experience, knowledge and that special something to be able to turn a business around, to make it work.

As for actors.... it takes talent to be convincing on the screen. Not everybody can pull it off. Those who can, have the ability to sell the movie, therefore raise millions of dollars in profits. Without those individuals the movie would flop no matter how good the story might be. The public votes on each actor's salary every time they buy a movie ticket. Some actors have enjoyed success half their lives, and some enjoyed it only for a couple of years. I see nothing wrong with them earning millions either. If an individual proves he/she is profitable to a company and brings in big money with their talent, education or charm, they deserve to be rewarded. Nothing wrong with that. Once their popularity declines in the public eye, they are no longer offered leading roles, and no longer able to earn the millions they might have enjoyed in the past.



posted on Sep, 23 2010 @ 07:11 PM
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Originally posted by Flatfish
reply to post by 2manyquestions
 


Let me ask you this; Where in this country can an individual pay rent & utilities, feed & clothe themselves and remain healthy on $300.00 gross pay per week? This doesn't even take into account any dependents whatsoever.


In a way I've already answered this question. If people refused to take the job, companies wouldn't offer it. Unfortunately somebody takes the job (such as -- but not always -- an illegal worker who lives with five other illegal workers, gets paid under the table, and doesn't pay taxes from the money he/she earns) and perpetuates the problem of low salaries.

Low-paying jobs in places like McDonalds or other such businesses are suited for students. If an adult wants to take that job and try to live off it, it's his/her choice. One can make it work by living with room mates for example. It is not a company's responsibility to make sure you can afford everything you've ever wanted. Their responsibility is to provide the minimum wage required in order to employ somebody. If they can't find employees to fill the positions for the salary they are offering, they will be forced to either pay more money, or close down. Working for $300 a week can be avoided by obtaining an education or technical skill to perform a job that pays more. Whether or not you will be able to pick the right job for you is up to you. That's life.

We can either live with Capitalism where sharp minds and hard work prevail (where not everyone is always going to be able to make it, but when they do, life is great), or we can live in Socialism where the Government takes more than half our paychecks, and in return provides us with mediocre health care, more regulation, more say in our lives, and less opportunity to succeed. If you want someone to redistribute wealth and take care of all your basic needs, socialism is the answer. Unfortunately all those who disagree with redistributing the wealth that belongs to them will move out and start up somewhere else. Pretty soon all that will be left is Government-owned business, and those who enjoy living just above the poverty line. When you stifle creativity and the ability to grow, you're going to destroy any possibility at a better life.



If he can't afford these things then we, the taxpayers, are making up the difference through social services and the company is sluffing off part of the true cost of their product on us.


Blame the Government for being so quick to give out hand-outs and taking your tax dollars to do it. Instead of taking the taxes from your check every month, they could have let you keep more of it, giving you more of an ability to survive. The Government loves to take from you, and they especially love to take from your boss.



It's like health care, if a persons employer is not providing it or at least paying the employee enough to afford his own private policy, then we the taxpayers are picking up a portion of the true cost of maintaining a healthy workforce for that employer. It's not just that company's employees that are getting screwed, we all are.


Again, blame the Government for giving hand-outs from your tax dollars, and don't take the job if the company refuses to provide you with what you need. The company needs workers to produce a product. If everybody refuses to take the job, they are forced to give in to the demand of the worker. That's what Unions do, except nowadays some Unions go far beyond the boundary of asking for fair wages and benefits. If you don't do enough in your life to improve your situation, you cannot expect to have others (such as your employer) take care of you. You must prove to your employer that you are valuable to his/her company, indispensable, or hard to replace.
Believe it or not, there are MANY companies in this country who take great care of their employees. Make it your goal in life to search them out and work for them.



posted on Sep, 24 2010 @ 03:52 AM
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reply to post by 2manyquestions
 


there's is one small flaw to your "blame the gov't"....

the low wages were here long before the handouts were around!
the lack of them either didn't force the workers to demand higher wages, or well...their demand went ignored...but at one time, ya know, when the companies were basically left alone to run the companies unhindered by the gov't.....it would take a family of seven earning a wage to provide the funds needed to provide for that family!

now days, if one were to refuse a job because of the low wage being offered, well, there's plenty out there that would take it regardless of how low the wage were, simply because they don't want a higher wage, unless of course it's high enough to provide what they are getting from the gov't aide, or there is an illegal that will take it.

we need the low wages to keep american companies competitive with other countries....
only, we have a high cost of living because we are also serving as the world's consumers...not to mention feeding the greed of a bunch of "we worked hard, we deserve the best in life" paper pushers.
this would not, could not work, without gov't picking up part of the tab!!
and, well, because of the greed, it isn't working!!!




edit on 24-9-2010 by dawnstar because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 24 2010 @ 09:21 AM
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reply to post by 2manyquestions
 


I'm sorry but the world you describe is one without compassion and I just as soon not participate in it. Just because someone is always willing to work for slave wages doesn't make it the right thing to perpetuate. It just demonstrates how desperate those who would take that job have become under our current system.

I'm sorry but in my book, all your excuses for continuing under the present system don't hold water. There is no excuse for condemning people to a below poverty level existence while corporate profit margins and CEO pay soar through the roof. It's greed, plain and simple. There is no pretty way to paint the situation.

Corporate mentality and greed are destroying America by suppressing wages and perpetuating a system that resembles legalized slavery. Actually, I believe that many slave owners of the past probably took better care of their workers than a lot of american corporations do today. I'm sorry but I can't just sit there and watch my fellow man being so repressed by the wealthy class without at least attempting to do something to correct the abuse.

What happened to, "All For One & One for All?" Has that been converted into another hollow republican slogan with little or no meaning? In my view, noting could be so un-american as sitting in the lap of luxury while ignoring the plight of our fellow americans who live in poverty and squalor are so desperately in need of help.

When I go down that path an old bible quote comes to mind, "But Were It Not For The Grace Of God, There Go I."

It is this fundamental idea of looking out for one another's best interest that separates those who would favor unions from those who would oppose them. There is a class of people in America today who demonstrate more compassion for their pets than they do towards their employees or their fellow man and as the current situation in Bell, CA. is proving, just because you can get away with it, doesn't make it the right thing to do.



posted on Sep, 24 2010 @ 10:09 AM
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Hang a minute there! DId someone say CEOs and top executives are justified earning MILLIONS OF DOLLARS PER YEAR?

Fair enough, I agree on rewards and compensation, but millions? What's he gonna do with all that money? New Lamborghinis every year and resell it without much loss next year? A beach home that will appreciate even MORE money over time? Or gamble it away in the casino called the stock market, in the hope of gaining MORE money instead of setting up real manufacturing to hire more people and pay them decent wages?

And then what? Throw a few coins out and make huge claims on GIVING TO CHARITY, tax deductible by the way?

Think about it, as the employees slaves for his boss, not asking for ferraris, but just a simple car even china made to be mobile, new clothes every year, food on the table, a TV set to replace the centuries old cathode ray tube, etc, etc - only simple pleasures, while at the same time, poor as they are compared to the rich, they too contribute to society and charities both financially and physically too, with what they have and can spare......



posted on Sep, 24 2010 @ 10:40 AM
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reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 


Yeah, I think you heard it right, I'm sorry to say. Greed has become rampant in America today and it's destroying the very foundation that our great country was founded upon as well as the hopes and dreams of working class americans, or what's left of them.

I realize that restructuring minimum wage is not the magic wand that will put greed in check once and for all, it's just one step in that direction. Realistically speaking, it will take a number of changes to accomplish that goal.

It has become apparent to me, since initiating this discussion, that the thread was far too narrow in it's scope. Therefore, I'm going to try again with a new thread that will address a few more issues.



posted on Sep, 24 2010 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by Flatfish
 


Thanks for the confirmation. I also head a cry from the Corporation's supporters to keep US competitive.

Thing is, if GLOBALISATION is freely administered and adopted, US will NEVER be competitive, or survive. The cost of living and inflation was kept in tandem to citizen's capabilities, and US citizens' capabilities are far and wide compared to an African or Chinese, for the simple fact of education, politics and evolution/progress when look at the other nations.

Thus US citizens have..HELL to pay to maintain a life, let alone a living, when Corporations fled to seek for slaves.

If it is not morally or ethically wrong, as dictated by Corporations to hire illegals or cheap labout to manufacture products, then there is the issue of QUALITY. Slaves are NEVER productive, will cut corners and supply defective products.

In US past, from the 50s till the 70s, US and European goods were highly valued, not only for their brand, but its quality. I've spent thousands of dollars for such products, and a simple example - Hi Fi equipment. The ATTENTION TO DETAIL by americans and europeans are second to none. The fidelity of sound from them were so great that I was prepared to slave inorder to save up funds to buy them.

But then came the Japs, with their cheap sound equipment. I loved the Sony walkman series, but when it comes to Hi fi, I cringed each time when a pub reproduce music from such equipment, let alone established concert venues. The Japs claimed high quality control, but they could NEVER match the attention to detail the western world could perform on products, and had done so for centuries.

Today, I cry at the quality of cheap charlies hi fi equipment from China. This is REGRESSION of mankind.

My point is - slaves will only produce medicore products and improvements are hard to come by. Our progress will ultimately only be stymied by such beliefs. The Corporations never cared. As long as the packaging is good, the advertising solid, the price cheap - they will make the billions, and billions more when one needs to purchase again to replace such defective products. Thus we will never progress and evolve further than the Corporations' wallets.

Therefore, we need to stop the slavery of humanity if we are to progress. Let competition be on quality, and not low wage costs. We will not need a National Minimum Wage, but critically, we the masses need an UNIVERSAL MINIMUM WAGE to stay alive.

Some say such beliefs are pipe dreams. But everything noble and good begins with a dream. Martin Luther King had a dream, and today we see its realities. No more does a black grandmother needs to give her seat to a white skin kid. Today we have even a black president. That is the reality of how far we can achieve when we dream, and are prepared to reach out to others and make a stand.

I beseech everyone here who believes in fairplay to discuss this issue with your families, relatives, friends and elected legislator, to push for Universal Minimum Wage, the way americans had fought and young sons hoodwinked to nobly die for Universal Humans Rights.

We are all one, the same race, bleed with sadness and laugh with joy the same, with common aspirations for ourselves and our loved ones....



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 04:40 AM
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another thing I've been pondering.....
social security is capped at something like $250,000 or so..so anything above that cap isn't hit with the social security tax, so well, it seems to me, that a company is better off giving those who are already earning over the cap those big raises than it is speading that money around to the lower wage earners. gee, think maybe if we removed that cap we could have a couple instant improvements in our economy.....we'd have more money going into the social security fund, and well...more money going into the pockets of those who really need it, instead of those who are just taking it to the wall street casino and making bets on weather or not we will be able to pay off our debts???



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 11:24 AM
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reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 


I couldn't agree with you more. Unfortunately, the type of change we're talking about is a slow process but the internet could be just the tool to wake up the laborers around the world with respect to their own future if the current system is allowed to continue.

I too, can't stand products made in China because they are pure junk. I do everything in my power to purchase "made in America" products only, but as I'm sure you are aware, the corporations are incrementally taking that freedom away from us too. Try to buy a television made in America, ain't gonna happen.

Corporations and the conservative right wing are intent on providing us with the freedom to live exactly as they say we should live, get it?

As far as America is concerned, if we don't want to lose what little progress we've made in the last two years, the democrats had better wake up and get their asses out to vote come November. Otherwise, they're going to "take this nation back," about 200 years that is.



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by dawnstar
 


Yes, you are exactly right. Social security taxes are something I failed to mention in this thread and part of the reason I started my new thread; www.abovetopsecret.com...

We definitely need to remove the cap on S.S. taxes! I don't believe that anything could do more to rescue social security than legislation that would remove this cap. Of course employers would rather get rid of S.S. altogether so that they don't have to provide their matching share of the tax.

Good point and I'm glad you brought it up, Thanks.



posted on Sep, 25 2010 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by Flatfish
 


ya, but....
would they rather starve the majority of their workers and shift the share of the profits to the upper earning few to avoid it...
I kind of think that they would be....or at least send those starving workers to the food stamp line.



posted on Sep, 26 2010 @ 12:50 PM
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reply to post by Flatfish
 


There must be NO slow progress when it comes to Universal Minimum Wage. We need it like YESTERDAY!

So long as slavery or slave wages are allowed, THERE WILL BE INTERNATIONAL ECONOMIC RECOVERY, as the cheapskate despicable Corporations will flee to the cheapest labour nations to earn their miserable buck, and the corrupt leaders of such nations are willing to become accessory to criminal and unethical behaviour contrary to universal human rights.]

Africa is a good example of such collusions. The tribal leaders were happy to accept kickbacks to keep their tribe stupid without social expenditure,so that leaders will always remain in power and rich.

The wealthy Corporations were happy to give such kickbacks, as they make back more off the back ot the slaves, and such systems had been going on since the western world discovered Africa. Back then, the tribal leaders and the malcontents were happy to sell their ethnic similar brothers and sisters to slave traders, not for gold or silver, but sadly, pathetic kegs of rum. Today, they know more better, but the slavery and low literal levels of our fellow brothers and sisters by divine creation continues on.

And being low on the educational scale, the africans cannot command high wages, just as the chinese and asians as well compared to the western world. However the truth is, with proper simple instructions and an expenditure on education, humans ANYWHERE can perform similarly and thus paid similarly.

Unfortunately, the Corporation through their greed deemed stupidity an asset, unaware how far mankind would have progressed with proper education and motivation. Thus our doom as a species is assured. Make a bow of appreciation next time you passed by a MNC. They deserve their crowning glory of an idiot's hat.



posted on Sep, 26 2010 @ 12:57 PM
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Its time to do without it period and start star trekking it. Time to catch up Spiritually, Mentally, Emotionally and physically.

Restructuring a system of OWNERSHIP and the selfish stance of what about me, my family, and my things, mentality will only prolong your destruction and keep us all stunted. Don't believe me.

Try it out



posted on Sep, 26 2010 @ 08:22 PM
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reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 


Again, I couldn't agree with you more but unfortunately it's going to take more than just a few of us to awaken the rest of working class America to the fact that they are nothing more than legalized slaves under the current system.

I remember in Alex Hailey's "Roots," there was a scene where the local politicians and land owners were meeting to discuss their dilemma as the slaves had just been freed. The prominent politician told the plantation owners that just because Lincoln freed them didn't mean that they, (the wealthy land owners) couldn't still keep them enslaved through indebtedness.

No doubt, slavery in America is alive and well today, it just has a new name, it's called "subsistence level employment."

After starting this thread, it didn't take me long to realize that in reality, it was going to take a lot more than the restructuring of minimum wage to even begin to address some of the root causes of the situation we Americans currently find ourselves in. After coming to this realization, I started a new thread where I addressed, what I believe to be, a few of those root causes, it's entitled; "What Would You Do To Rescue The American Middle Class?" and it can be found here; www.abovetopsecret.com...

I would like to invite you to join the conversation there if you are so inclined but I have to warn you that I don't seem to be attracting very many responses from the right wing party of "new ideas."



posted on Sep, 28 2010 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by dawnstar
reply to post by 2manyquestions
 


there's is one small flaw to your "blame the gov't"....

the low wages were here long before the handouts were around!
the lack of them either didn't force the workers to demand higher wages, or well...their demand went ignored...but at one time, ya know, when the companies were basically left alone to run the companies unhindered by the gov't.....it would take a family of seven earning a wage to provide the funds needed to provide for that family!


I hear two different arguments from people. First there are those who claim that life was far better a few decades ago. More people owned homes, and more people were able to support their families without both spouses working. Then I hear the other side of the argument, the one that says people were far worse off before the Government imposed more regulations on businesses. My guess is that back in the day the wages were enough, because the cost of living was still low enough. People were able to make it on less money. Since taxes seem to go up almost every year and new taxes are created by our politicians, cost of living has gone up, yet minimum wage hasn't moved much.

As I pointed out in my original post, minimum wage should be a little higher than it currently is, but frankly it wouldn't need to be raised if our Federal Government and our State Governments wouldn't keep creating new ways of earning revenue. For example the State of California has raised the sales tax to 10% (I believe). They've raised the vehicle registration fees to a new high, they have raised taxes on energy costs, they have raised income taxes to 10%, they've raised traffic violation and parking ticket fines, and the list goes on. All these tax raises are draining our bank accounts! When you raise the sales tax on items, the business will pass the cost onto the consumer, therefore it's harder and harder for us to stretch a dollar. Also, consumers will try to purchase items out of State to avoid the imposed sales tax, therefore local businesses will lose business, and maybe they'll cut back on costs by letting go a person or two.

If our politicians didn't choke the life out of our paychecks, our registration fees, the sales tax, property tax, and all the other taxes that come with living, working for minimum wage wouldn't be as bad as it seems now. People have to remember that every time the Government takes from the business you work for, they're taking money from your pockets not only from your paychecks, but also from your wallets every time you make a purchase or pay the electric bill.



now days, if one were to refuse a job because of the low wage being offered, well, there's plenty out there that would take it regardless of how low the wage were, simply because they don't want a higher wage, unless of course it's high enough to provide what they are getting from the gov't aide, or there is an illegal that will take it.


That's right, somebody else would take the job if you refuse it. Thanks to our porous borders and the lack of illegal immigration enforcement, jobs are even more scarce than they would be if illegal immigrants were forced to return to their country of origin. Since there are plenty of illegals willing to work for minimum, or even below minimum wage, some businesses will continue to keep wages low, because they know they can fill those positions even if you refuse to take it.



we need the low wages to keep american companies competitive with other countries....
only, we have a high cost of living because we are also serving as the world's consumers...not to mention feeding the greed of a bunch of "we worked hard, we deserve the best in life" paper pushers.
this would not, could not work, without gov't picking up part of the tab!!
and, well, because of the greed, it isn't working!!!


We do need to remain competitive, but like I stated above, if companies didn't get the life squeezed out of them by our Government, they would be able to sell their products (to us, the consumer) for less, they would be more likely to expand, hire more people, maybe make bigger profits (because we would be more likely to be able to afford their products), and wages could be kept fair.

Let me give you an example. I work for a small company. My boss is dying to expand and to hire more people, but he's struggling to make the decision due to the enormous load of taxes he has to pay four times a year. He's not sure about the political climate and where it will lead. What if he expands and our politicians decide to take more from him in the near future? That question keeps him from making the move, keeps him from hiring three additional people, keeps him from purchasing big equipment, and keeps me from getting a raise anytime soon. If the business environment were friendlier, he'd have three new employees by now.

Not every business and corporation is driven by greed. Some just enjoy the game and happen to make a lot of money in the process. The bigger they get, the more people they need to keep it expanding, the more people have jobs, the more people are able to spend money, and.... in turn.... this spending of money supports other businesses around the world, which helps them expand, which helps them hire new people, which helps more people earn a living and spend their money on things that support yet more businesses. Not every corporation is "evil". I realize it's common ATS sense to demonize people with large amounts of money, but we can't think of all of them in this way. Some do wrong, they should be punished, but I think it's time to start valuing those who are still willing to do business in this country and keep us employed.



posted on Sep, 28 2010 @ 11:31 PM
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Originally posted by Flatfish
reply to post by 2manyquestions
 


I'm sorry but the world you describe is one without compassion and I just as soon not participate in it. Just because someone is always willing to work for slave wages doesn't make it the right thing to perpetuate. It just demonstrates how desperate those who would take that job have become under our current system.


I hear you, but that's the kind of world we live in. If I could just sit on my a$$ all day, do what I want, have food, shelter, medical and entertainment provided for me without having to lift a finger (and I'm not talking about jail), I'd be in heaven. In this world we have to work for all those things, and we have to earn them. From childhood we are told "concentrate on school, get good grades, use your head, go to College or get proper training". Some of us are wise enough to listen, and some of us decide we can make it without any of that.

If you want to improve wages and way of life, you'll vote for those who will lower taxes for businesses and us alike, and for those who are willing to enforce our immigration laws. What that will do is encourage businesses to grow and to hire more people. That will in turn create more consumers, who will then create more profit for various businesses (big and small) around the country, who will then also profit, expand and hire more people. By enforcing immigration laws it will eliminate a source of dirt-cheap labor, and companies will be forced to hire citizens for better pay. By lowering our taxes it will leave more money in our pockets, which will help us stretch our dollar even more, which will improve the way we live, and many of us won't need Government charity to help us survive.
If you want to keep living in a downward spiral, you can vote for those who promise to regulate and choke the life out of businesses some more. You'll vote for those who promise to raise taxes and give away more of taxpayer dollars to numerous social services and bailout funds which will continue to be abused by those who feel it is their right to do so.



I'm sorry but in my book, all your excuses for continuing under the present system don't hold water. There is no excuse for condemning people to a below poverty level existence while corporate profit margins and CEO pay soar through the roof. It's greed, plain and simple. There is no pretty way to paint the situation.


Look, we can debate the evilness and greed of CEOs everywhere, but we won't get anywhere with it. You can either punish them by capping their salaries.... in which case they'll just move overseas where nobody messes with their paychecks and they take the jobs with them, or you can support them in their money-making ventures, help them make more, and help them keep your job right here. Those are your choices. These people take risks, they work hard, and they've earned their paychecks. Some of them are bastards, and some of them are very nice people despite the big paycheck they see every month. Many of them treat their employees very nicely as long as they can afford to without losing profit and the ability to grow.

The company exists to make a profit. Somebody started the company you work for, for profit... to earn a living, to earn a certain lifestyle. It's what dreams are made of. That person had to work very hard to build a company to where it is, and thanks to that person's hard work, you've got a job. It is your freedom to either take it or leave it. If you allow into this country a huge influx of people who will undercut you, and if you vote for people who keep taking more and more from your employer, naturally you are going to see a decline in your pay and higher prices for the things these companies produce. I really don't know what you expect.




Corporate mentality and greed are destroying America by suppressing wages and perpetuating a system that resembles legalized slavery. Actually, I believe that many slave owners of the past probably took better care of their workers than a lot of american corporations do today. I'm sorry but I can't just sit there and watch my fellow man being so repressed by the wealthy class without at least attempting to do something to correct the abuse.


Seriously? I guess you're right. I guess slaves were treated much better, especially when their children were sold to other slave owners, or when slaves got beat or hung for not working hard enough, or when slaves were forced to live in shanties all their lives. Yep,... sounds just like the life of a factory worker today!

You've got it mixed up. It's not the every-day business keeping you down, it's your government and all those corrupt politicians who would allow anyone to buy their support. There are a few individuals with loads of money who would pay politicians off (including certain Unions), but it's the politicians who have final say. They can refuse to be bought and make decisions for the good of the country, not for the good of their own pockets.



What happened to, "All For One & One for All?" Has that been converted into another hollow republican slogan with little or no meaning? In my view, noting could be so un-american as sitting in the lap of luxury while ignoring the plight of our fellow americans who live in poverty and squalor are so desperately in need of help.


I'm not a Republican so I don't know what they think of the slogan, but I can tell you that people would feel a lot more generous if the Government left them more of their money, and let them spend it on the charities of their choice. Hell, if I had more money to spend, I'd be more willing to donate to those in need. Unfortunately 10% of my paycheck goes to taxes, and I don't doubt that another 20% ends up going toward taxes as well every time I pay for gas, food, bills, clothes, other necessities and a little bit of entertainment. Since I'm considered a "single" person without children, I get no tax breaks there either. The taxes they do take from me, those pay for several "charity-like" things such as welfare, huge Government worker retirement plans, illegal alien medical care, $8,000.00 signs that say "Project Funded by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act", so on and so forth.

Even if someone with a million dollars decided to give away a portion of it, how would they decide who to give it to??? Who deserves it the most? Even though I'm less well-off than a millionaire, if he/she were giving away half the money, I couldn't say that I'm the one who deserves it. There's more needy people than I, and while there are millions of needy people in the world, how do you divide it amongst them? Many mega-rich people and corporations already donate to charities. Yeah, they get a tax break, but so what? Tax breaks on charity work just encourages more people to give. Nothing wrong with it there. You can't force somebody to give their wealth away, and if you could, would you take the money feeling like you deserve it most? When you talk about plight, are you talking about your own plight? I believe there are a few millionaires who take requests. If you can prove that you deserve their charity over someone else, they'll give you the money.



When I go down that path an old bible quote comes to mind, "But Were It Not For The Grace Of God, There Go I."

It is this fundamental idea of looking out for one another's best interest that separates those who would favor unions from those who would oppose them. There is a class of people in America today who demonstrate more compassion for their pets than they do towards their employees or their fellow man and as the current situation in Bell, CA. is proving, just because you can get away with it, doesn't make it the right thing to do.


Last time I checked, the Bell crooks didn't get away with anything. They're off to jail with no bail for the ring leader. Crime doesn't always pay. If anything, the situation in Bell should prove that there is still some justice in this world.

That pet comment,... you're generalizing. You're saying that when people get very rich, they lose their compassion for their fellow man and treat their pets better than they treat their employees. That's like saying that all poor people are good folks who'd never hurt a fly. We all know that's bull. Last time I checked there's plenty of evil and cruel people even in the lower tax brackets. Ever heard of robberies and violent crime in the ghettos?

As for Unions,... I'm in favor of them as long as they don't extort businesses or try to buy politicians to benefit only their own group, while everyone else still has to play by the rules. Union leaders fight for their members for one reason only, and that's to keep getting your union fees. If they fought for you for free, I'd really respect that.



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