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Men's-rights activists seek right to decline fatherhood in event of unplanned pregnancy

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posted on Oct, 20 2010 @ 08:08 AM
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Originally posted by Brood
maybe someone should propose a solution to this problem, hopefully it isn't instantly demonized by the false label of Men's Rights being mysoginistic
.


I don't think there's any solution that will please all parties, but by far the most logical and fair way to sort this out is to either: stop abortion or stop child support payments. The two are mutually incompatible.

If we stop abortion, then the child is created at conception, which means that both the man and woman are equally responsible for its creation and welfare - so child support payment would be valid in this case.

If we allow abortion, then the child is created upon its birth or at a certain stage of pregnancy ( depending on which country you live in ), which means that the mother is 100% responsible for its creation and subsequent welfare; ergo, the father's financial support is irrelevant and unnecessary.




posted on Oct, 21 2010 @ 08:06 AM
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Originally posted by 27th Aquarius
A real man takes cares of his mistakes and responsibilities.


This is the BEST thought provoking idea on this thread!

Thumbs up!!!



posted on Oct, 21 2010 @ 08:59 AM
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Wanting someone else to help pay for the results of your own unilateral choices is irresponsible.

Men are not equally responsible for the creation of a child, they are only equally responsible for the creation of a "lump of tissue" that a woman can unilaterally throw in the trash for absolultely any reason.

The choice to let that lump of tissue develop into a child requiring 20 years of financial and emotional support is the Woman's unilateral choice and therefore no one else should be forced (under threat of jail) to help pay for it.



posted on Oct, 21 2010 @ 09:40 AM
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reply to post by SevenBeans
 


Excellent first post.


You echo my sentiments entirely.

The current legislation is the ''have your cake and eat it'' mentality of the feminazis, that is sadly supported by the corrupt legal system.


You can not have abortion and child support. It has got to be one or the other.

It is patently illogical to suggest otherwise ( but then again, feminists and law-making bodies aren't renowned for their logic ).



posted on Oct, 21 2010 @ 09:34 PM
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reply to post by bluemirage5
 


While you are saying that what about real women?



posted on Oct, 22 2010 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by 27th Aquarius
A real man takes cares of his mistakes and responsibilities.


By your own argument, any woman that has an abortion is not a ''real woman''.

Abortion is a woman not taking care of her own mistakes and responsibilities.

The topic in this thread is arguing for equal rights for men on this issue; just as a woman can neglect motherhood via abortion, a man should be able to, as well.


Amusingly enough, your use of the term ''real man'' is presumably an attempt to invoke thoughts of the macho, powerful, Clint Eastwood type of man. A type of man that flies in the face of feminist ideals.


Personally speaking, I don't approve of abortion - although I have sympathy with some women who undergo this procedure - because I believe that human life starts at its biological inception.

So, if I accidentally got a girl pregnant, then I would definitely assume my responsibility for the child, and support it in the best way that I could.

I guess that that makes me a ''real man''.


However, I think other men should have the option of not supporting their child, because the law has an illogical take on the subject, by legally permitting abortion and legally stipulating that a man has to financially support his child.

The two concepts are mutually incompatible.


( Nice large font, by the way. The content of a post is always so much better if it's printed in unusually large lettering
).



posted on Oct, 23 2010 @ 11:13 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


i know you replied to this a while ago.. ehh.. i don't really reply to replies. lol. my problem isn't with needy families, or families down on their luck, like you said, he chose drugs over taking care of his responsibilities. that's where i have a problem. so, once again, a man having a CHOICE to be responsible, isn't an option.



posted on Oct, 24 2010 @ 12:35 AM
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reply to post by notsofast
 


But its entirely fair for a female to have a choice not to live up to her responsibilities? There are women that can and are just as irresponsible as the males you are so quick to cruicify.



posted on Oct, 24 2010 @ 01:32 AM
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reply to post by joechip
 


Awesome. This is totally fair. Problem is the other side of the coin is not the woman but the child and child trumps all.

Judges look at it as whats best for the child.

There are some men who are not even the fathers and have to pay child support. I kid you not.



posted on Oct, 27 2010 @ 08:25 AM
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reply to post by mayertuck
 


be more specific



posted on Oct, 27 2010 @ 11:41 AM
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It's for this exact reason that multiple options should be kept open to every individual and not cut off because of PERSONAL BELIEF. Which is where these disagreements comes in to place. To say it simply, if we have options available to people then why take that away? Take away abortion, take away adoption, cut this, cut that....If people are given instruments to exercise their rights then why not let them. Everyone knows that this world is anything but perfect. There are so many different situations, a variety of minds with numerous possibilities, numerous actions and numerous outcomes. The best we can do is try to prepare for it as they come and the maximum we can do is offer solutions. YES YES YES it would be absolutely lovely if everyone took responsibility for themselves and their actions but not everyone always does as we can see.



posted on Oct, 27 2010 @ 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
reply to post by SevenBeans
 





You can not have abortion and child support. It has got to be one or the other.

It is patently illogical to suggest otherwise ( but then again, feminists and law-making bodies aren't renowned for their logic ).


Of course you cannot have an abortion and child support, which feminist suggested that?

Your statement sums up my entire belief too, can you believe that?

If an abortion is had, why in the world would there be child support ordered?


And if the abortion is not chosen, then child support comes into play.

There is no cake and eating it too to your scenario, and since this is how I feel too, nor to mine.

Great post! I knew we could all come to an agreement on this issue.



posted on Oct, 27 2010 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by mayertuck
 


IN which scenario does a female abdicate her responsibility to the pregnancy?

Each choice available to her is a responsible choice. So I cannot think barring just abandoning a live child, how exercising her rights equals abdication of responsibility?



posted on Oct, 27 2010 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by mayertuck
 


IN which scenario does a female abdicate her responsibility to the pregnancy?

Each choice available to her is a responsible choice. So I cannot think barring just abandoning a live child, how exercising her rights equals abdication of responsibility?


Forcing someone else (a Man) to pay for the results of her unilateral choice (letting a "lump of tissue" develop into a baby requiring 20 years of support) is an abdication of her responsiblity.



posted on Oct, 27 2010 @ 07:24 PM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


tater we have had this discussion numerous times, adoption is leaving a living child so is safe haven. I really do not feel like going round and round on this again. As I have said before you may think its responsible for a female to have those options, and personally I disagree. And If a femal has those oprions a male should also have those options whether you or i personally agree with them.



posted on Oct, 27 2010 @ 07:27 PM
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reply to post by bluemirage5
 


Originally posted by bluemirage5

Originally posted by 27th Aquarius
A real man takes cares of his mistakes and responsibilities.


This is the BEST thought provoking idea on this thread!

Thumbs up!!!


This. You agree that this is the best idea, but what of women who do not live up to their mistakes or responsibilities. Any woman that gets an abortion, puts it up for adoption, gives it away, etc is not living up to her mistakes or responsibilities. personally I don't think any sex should have an out, but women are given an out that is legally and socially accepted. In the process men are not and are being held responsible for a choice that he doesn't make nor has any control over.

Is that specific enough?



posted on Oct, 28 2010 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater
Of course you cannot have an abortion and child support, which feminist suggested that?

Your statement sums up my entire belief too, can you believe that?

If an abortion is had, why in the world would there be child support ordered?


And if the abortion is not chosen, then child support comes into play.

There is no cake and eating it too to your scenario, and since this is how I feel too, nor to mine.

Great post! I knew we could all come to an agreement on this issue.


I mean you cannot logically have both the option of abortion, and mandatory child support payments, on the statute books.

I didn't say anything about paying child support to a woman that had an abortion !

Even the lawmakers aren't that illogical. Although, the feminists, on the other hand...



posted on Oct, 28 2010 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by mayertuck
 


Well.....ever hear of that very simple basic word "NO" ??????

A majority of rapes are perpetrated by man, very rarely women.

Putting that aside, whether a woman may or may not say no, she can't fall pregnant if the man refuses her...problem is the man 99% of the time struggles with that word "NO".



posted on Oct, 28 2010 @ 09:35 PM
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reply to post by bluemirage5
 

It has nothing to do with rape nor with a man not being able to say no. Its her body she knows the risks as much as him, if not more so. If something unwanted happens she has outs while he has none. Plain and simple, in your mind and by what your saying if a woman acts irresponsible she should have outs however if a man does so he shouldn't. It is a double standard at best. And in cases of rape or incest, of course she should not be held responsible.

Both are responsible for the act, claiming a woman's responsibility is abated once he says yes is one sided and wrong. They BOTH have responsibility throughout the course of things.

Anyway you cut it a woman has an out of the responsibilities of HER actions and all the control, while a man has a disproportinate responsibility for his choices and hers.

In addition what about the woman who took the condom out of the trash, or the pedophile who had sex with a minor and got pregnant (he has to pay child support), or when a woman got a sperm donor and then went for child support.

So since I know the standard comeback which is some variation of but "she has to carry it" the question I have for you is should men and women have different rights because of biology?

edit on 28-10-2010 by mayertuck because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-10-2010 by mayertuck because: added a question



posted on Oct, 29 2010 @ 12:37 AM
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reply to post by Sherlock Holmes
 

Actually lawmakers are that illogical. Allamony, created back when women couldn't get a job if they wanted to. Kept alive for women today for women that feel they shouldn't have to work and pay for the "lifestyle" they were used to while they were married to the husband.

As a guy that came within a hair of being trapped by a psycho chick with the whole child support thing, I am lucky. We were dating for about 6 months, seemed going fine to me, so I let her move in with me. After a few months she starts getting all jealous and possessive, so I told her to pack her bags and get out. She moves back in with mommy. Get a call from her a few months later claiming she has me by the balls, she is pregnant, and I will have to pay her child support. She says she lied about being on the pill, and was poking pins through my rubbers. I guess on top of being a manipulative conniving evil woman, she was also sleeping around. DNA test proved I wasn't the father, I feel bad for whoever got trapped by that sorry excuse of a human being.

That near miss situation has taught me a lot though I guess, about how manipulative some woman out there are. It sounds kind of stupid, but I have not even bothered seeking out a girlfriend since, if it is meant to be it will happen I guess. If not, my life is no less great without women.



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