Origins of Atlantis/Lemuria Myths Part-2, page 1

Origins of Atlantis/Lemuria Myths Part-2

Hello again.

Before we continue with Part-2. Let me just say to those of you who are just joining us for the first time on this journey into a possible lost past of human history, That I would highly recommend reading Origins of Atlantis/Lemuria Myths Part-1 first. We will be picking up directly where Part 1 left off.

As before while we explore please keep in mind and remember that this is set forth as theory and conjecture not as fact. However I will be again interjecting some facts as we move forward mixed with speculation. You may draw your own conclusions. In Origins of Atlantis/Lemuria Myths Part-1 I laid out the facts that during the last ice age the ocean levels were much lower than they are now, up to as much as 130 meters or 426 feet lower. Which exposed vast amounts of coastal territory that is presently submerged just off the coasts that we know today. Coastal migrations seems to be the accepted theory. BUT..Which coasts? The present day one or the now submerged one which were exposed during the last ice age period?

Mans sunken heritage

In Part-1 we left off heading North from Australia towards Southeast Asia which is our first stop. We will then reference locations in China, Korea and Japan. So get your hot cup of coffee or again if you're like me a Scotch and let us begin.

Southeast Asia

Southeast Asia

Homo sapiens reached the region by around 45,000 years ago.[16] Homo floresiensis seems to have shared some islands with modern humans until only 12,000 years ago, when they became extinct.[17] Austronesian people, who form the majority of the modern population in Indonesia and the Philippines, migrated to South East Asia from Taiwan. They arrived in Indonesia around 2000 BCE, and as they spread through the archipelago, confined the native Melanesian peoples to the far eastern regions.[18]

Austronesian people

A study by Leeds University and published in Molecular Biology and Evolution, showed that mitochondrial DNA lineages have been evolving within Island Southeast Asia (ISEA) since modern humans arrived approximately 50,000 years ago. Population dispersals occurred at the same time as sea levels rose, which resulted in migrations from the Philippine Islands to as far north as Taiwan within the last 10,000 years.[13]

Homo-Sapien reached the region approximately 45,000 years ago. Homo floresiensis died out around 12,000 years ago. I find it very interesting that that's right around the period of the end of the ice age. 10,000 BC. coincidence? Possibly. I postulate that when the oceans rose the two bipedal species clashed and competed for the same resources. I suspect that there will not be any major discoveries of a stone age development period in the area as we find in other locations around the globe. At least not on land.

Japan

Ancient Japan

Japanese Archipelago appeared with a Paleolithic culture around 30,000 BC, followed from around 14,000 BC by the Jomon period, a Mesolithic to Neolithic semi-sedentary hunter-gatherer (possibly Ainu)[16] culture of pit dwelling and a rudimentary form of agriculture. Decorated clay vessels from this period, often with plaited patterns, are some of the oldest surviving examples of pottery in the world.

So an early Paleolithic culture that was later followed by a primitive Hunter-gatherer culture some how made it to the islands of Japan. I have to stop and ask myself this. How did a Paleolithic people who predated the primitive "Hunter-Gatherers" get to Japan in the first place? By Boat? I suspect they walked. Referencing this Google Earth image below, We can clearly see that while the oceans were lower during the ending periods of the last ice age the land in question that is presently submerged would have been dry. Again the light blue areas are the ancient dry coast lines.



Now I'm going to stop here and discuss the supposed sunken Japanese megalithic site known as the Yonaguni Monument. One would think that since this is a thread regarding possible sunken history and while discussing Japan that these two would go hand in hand. I disagree. The Yonaguni site is very interesting and does have some rather unusual anomalies. However It has not been proven yet as an actual archeological site.

Intersting discoveries at Yonaguni.
Could they be man made?

Interesting to say the least.
There are other locations in Japan on land that very intriguing

Megaliths of Kanayama

This site is believed to date back to the early Jomon period, possibly 10,000 or more years ago.

This a very impressive example of Ancient Japans megalithic period.
Ishibutai, Japan

A detailed study has been made of the construction of the Japanese megalithic tomb of Ishibutai; which is by no means the largest of Japanese megaliths, but is certainly one of the largest tombs. Ishibutai has a rectangular chamber measuring 25ft by 11ft by 15ft high approached by a passage 38ft in length, and roofed by two capstones each weighing between 60 and 70 tons each.

China

China-Prehistory

The earliest evidence of a fully modern human in China comes from Liujiang County, Guangxi, where a cranium has been found and dated at approximately 67,000 years old. Although much controversy persists over the dating of the Liujiang remains,

Paleolithic China

Three pottery pieces were unearthed at Liyuzui Cave in Liuzhou, Guangxi Province dated 16,500 and 19,000 BC

OK, Now I had to pause and think about to how to approach China. The history there is so vast and almost overwhelming. Suffice it to say that one could dedicate 10 or more threads to China's ancient past and still not have covered every detail. Suffice it to say that there is a continuing similarity in China with the other Ancient locations. It seems that in China as well those earliest locations were either near the coast or along rivers. Having said that. I did find this next tidbit rather interesting.

The early history of China is made obscure by the lack of written documents from this period, coupled with the existence of accounts written during later time periods that attempted to describe events that had occurred several centuries previously. In a sense, the problem stems from centuries of introspection on the part of the Chinese people, which has blurred the distinction between fact and fiction in regards to this early history.

Fact of Fiction? That sounded rather ominous. Remember in Part-1 I discussed Myths? How it is generally accepted that in every Myth there is usually the tiniest kernel of truth. What about Ancient Chinese flood myths?

Flood myths China

There are many sources of flood legends in ancient Chinese literature. Some appear to refer to a worldwide deluge but most versions record only a regional flood - a number of them have a theme of men taming floods caused by hostile nature gods, some based on historical events

Korea

Korea Prehistory

The Korean Academy of North America discovered ancient human fossils originating from about 100,000 BC in the lava at a stone city site in Korea. Fluorescent and high-magnetic analyses indicate the volcanic fossils may be from as early as 300,000 BC.[4] The best preserved Korean pottery goes back to the paleolithic times around 10,000 BC, and the Neolithic period begins around 6000 BC.

Ancient Korea

The traces of ancient Korea can be found forty or fifty thousand years back. The small group of people who were the residents of the ancient Korea at that time were Paleolithic peoples. These races of people depended on hunting and fishing for their survival. The traces of the existence of Neolithic communities can be found in the ancient Korea at around 4000 B.C. The remains of dressed stone equipments prove the existence of distinct pottery cultures in Korea. The people of ancient Korea believed in shamanism who grouped themselves in kins.

I need to stop here and discuss Standing Stones and Dolmens. Most people are familiar with the Dolmens strewn throughout the UK and Greater Europe. There are literally thousands of sites. However they are also found in India, Jordon, Turkey and Russia. The Russian Dolmens are my favorite. They remind me of the Flintsones house. The majority of Russian Dolmens tend to have a small round opening through which they had to crawl to enter or exit. Take a good hard look at this one. We will be revisiting this type of Dolmen later.



Korean Dolmens

The 'Ganghwa Dolmens' Korea has the highest concentration of dolmens in the world, with over 30,000, possessing between 40% and 50% of the worlds total. The island of Ganghwa contains several dolmens, one of which has the biggest recorded stone in South Korea and measures at 2.6 x 7.1 x 5.5 meters. (101.53 m³) The Ganghwa dolmen are accredited with capstones weighing 300 tons (28) at Gochang.

I was wanting to post a rather interesting map I had found online but when my hard drive crashed I lost the image. It showed that the majority of the oldest Dolmen locations were along the coast.

North America

DISCLAIMER
To date, no consistent pre-Clovis cultural patterns have been established and the accuracy of these claims have been found controversial and unverified. I however included them for argument sake.

Researchers, led by UO archaeologist, find pre-Clovis human DNA

DNA from dried human excrement recovered from Oregon's Paisley Caves is the oldest found yet in the New World -- dating to 14,300 years ago, some 1,200 years before Clovis culture -- and provides apparent genetic ties to Siberia or Asia, according to an international team of 13 scientists.

Among the researchers is Dennis L. Jenkins, a senior archaeologist with the University of Oregons Museum of Natural and Cultural History, whose summer field expeditions over two summers uncovered a variety of artifacts in caves that had caught the scientific attention of the UOs Luther Cressman in the 1930s.

Topper

Topper is an archaeological site located along the Savannah River in Allendale County, South Carolina in the United States. It is noted as the location of controversial artifacts believed by some archaeologists to indicate human habitation of the New World as far back as 50,000 years ago.

Monte Verde

Monte Verde is an archaeological site in south-central Chile, which has been dated to 14,500 years before present.[1] It pre-dates the earliest known Clovis culture site of Clovis, New Mexico, by 1000 years, contradicting the previously accepted "Clovis model" which holds that settlement of the Americas began after 13,500 years before present. As such the Monte Verde findings were initially dismissed by most of the scientific community, but in recent years the evidence has been widely accepted,[2][3] although vocal "Clovis-first" advocates remain.[4]

Cactus Hill

Cactus Hill is an archaeological site in the U.S. state of Virginia. It lies in the southeastern part of the state on the Nottoway River roughly 45 miles south of Richmond. The site, owned by the International Paper Corporation, is situated on sand dunes above the river. The site has yielded multiple levels of early occupation. Archaic stage material is underlain by fluted stone tools associated with the Clovis culture dated to 10,920 BP. A lower level yields artifacts including unfluted bifacial stone tools with dates ranging from c. 15,000 to 17,000 years ago. White pine charcoal from a hearth context on this level dates to 15,070 radiocarbon years BP[1]. Further charcoal deposits retrieved at the site date to as early as 19,700 years ago, although these deposits may have been made by forest fires.Cactus Hill is arguably the oldest archaeological dig in North America.

Now before we begin there needs to be a clarification on the misconception that the Americas had no ancient culture or history, that the native peoples of the Americas were primitive savages. It has finally been agreed that there have been several "Cradle Civilizations" in the world not just the Fertile Crescent. If you'll notice they show locations in Mesoamerica as well as the Pacific coast of South America. The one thing that bugs me about this map is that In Mesoamerica they mention the "Mayan and Aztecs" Meanwhile the Olmec where there long before the others.

If you wish to discuss and or debate Clovis please feel free to do so in one of my other threads Ancient America Rocked!


Olmec

The Olmec were an ancient Pre-Columbian people living in the tropical lowlands of south-central Mexico, in what are roughly the modern-day states of Veracruz and Tabasco. The Olmec flourished during Mesoamerica's Formative period, dating roughly from 1400 BCE to about 400 BCE. They were the first Mesoamerican civilization and laid many of the foundations for the civilizations that followed.[1] Among other "firsts", there is evidence that the Olmec practiced ritual bloodletting and played the Mesoamerican ballgame, hallmarks of nearly all subsequent Mesoamerican societies.

The most familiar aspect of the Olmecs is their artwork, particularly the aptly-named colossal heads.[2] In fact, the Olmec civilization was first defined through artifacts purchased on the pre-Columbian art market in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Olmec artworks are considered among ancient America's most striking and beautiful, and among the world's masterpieces.[3]

Interesting variations

There has been speculation that the colossal heads the Olmec left behind are proof of an ancient African connection. For further discussion and or debate please reference my other thread Olmec Giant Stone Heads Mystery Solved?. They also left behind other ruins that raises some rather interesting questions.

These boys look a tad bit Egyptian in appearance to me.

Now here is where it gets rather interesting.
Lost Civilization?

Most if not all the major Olmec stone carvings that survive to this day show massive amounts of damage in some form. It has been speculated that the damage was caused by rivals or later cultures defacing their work. My question is this. Wouldn't it have been easier to have chiseled off the inscriptions and carvings than trying to break them apart?

No, I theorize the reason why these stone carvings were heavily damaged and strewn throughout the jungle is possibly due to some form a titanic destructive force leaving only these few sculptures. Maybe a huge Volcanic eruption followed by a huge tsunami could have ripped apart ancient temples and flung them all over the surrounding area. Pure speculation on my part.

Does anybody remember the following image? It caused quite a stir when it was first released. It shows the destruction of a civilization from a tremendous volcanic eruption followed by flooding. Could this depiction and the Olmec ruins be proof of that titanic destruction?

Do you see the remnant of a arm near the top-center of this one?

Remember our favorite Russian Dolmen?

Could just be my imagination but it reminded me of this Olmec carving.

We need to consider that although the Olmec were famous for their Giant Stone Head sculptures they were also the oldest Central American culture and seemed to have built the most advanced pyramids way before the Mayan and Aztecs.

The Great Pyramid of Cholula, also known as Tlachihualtepetl (Nahuatl for "artificial mountain"), is a huge complex located in Cholula, Puebla, Mexico. It is the world's largest monument and largest Pre-Columbian pyramid by volume.

Cholula is most famous as the site of the Great Pyramid of Cholula, the largest man-made pyramid and monument by volume in the world. The temple-pyramid complex was built in four stages, starting from the 3rd century BCE through the 9th century CE, and was dedicated to the deity Quetzalcoatl.

It is the Oldest and Largest. It is also more advanced than all the rest that followed. This small section below is only the small base entrance into the great pyramid..

Now if you consider that this is just the small first steps of the pyramid it then really becomes amazing when you consider the age.


Here is what some believe the complex looks like if it would be completely excavated.



Now compare the above to this well known pyramid also located in the area supposedly from a much later period.


Pyramid of the Sun

History The name Pyramid of the Sun comes from the Aztecs, who visited the city of Teotihuacan centuries after it was abandoned; the name given to the pyramid by the Teotihuacan's is unknown.

Before we push south we need to talk about the supposed ruins off of Cuba.

Caribbean yields up sunken 'lost city'

Havana - Explorers using a miniature submarine off the coast of Cuba said on Thursday they had confirmed the discovery of stone structures deep below the surface that may have been built by an unknown civilization thousands of years ago.

Again one would think that like the supposed sunken ruins off of Japan it should also be in a thread that is discussing possible lost and or sunken civilizations. But again this is as of yet unconfirmed. So until there is proof positive it and also the Bimini road for that matter are legitimate archeological sites it simply does not fit. We can look at those ancient Ice age coast lines again. Is there a possible Dry "Ice age" coastal location for a ancient Caribbean sunken civilization? There seems to be some circumstantial evidence in the positive.

South America

There have been quite a few threads already done on the better known Ancient South American Cultures. I'll touch on the even older ones. Many predate the well known locations by a few thousand years.



Pre-Inca Observatory Is Oldest in Americas, Study Says

A mysterious set of monuments in Peru make up the oldest solar observatory in the Americas, according to a new study. The 2,300-year-old Thirteen Towers of Chankillo were used for marking the sun's position throughout the year—an activity that was part of the sun-worshipping culture of the Inca, the study authors said. The large stone towers are arranged in a line along a ridge near Chankillo, a walled hilltop ruin north of Lima.

Here's an interesting bit of info.
Pedra Furada (Brazil)
Contested Late Pleistocene Site

Pedra Furada's Controversy The original excavators (led by Fabio Parenti) reported two phases, one with several stacked layers dated between 48,000 and 14,300 years before the present (BP), and one dated later than 10,400 BP. Some scholars believe that dates before 10,400 may represent natural fire events, and that 'flaked pebbles' are 'geofacts', essentially quartz pebbles that dropped into the cave over time. Parenti and colleagues argue that the stacked C14 dates represent deliberate hearths, and that deliberate flaking of the pebbles is in evidence.

Caral

Caral: The Earliest Civilization in the New World
The Seeds of the Inca

Early in 2001, a site located on the Pacific coast of Peru which had been known for over a hundred years made headlines all over the world. The site of Caral and the cluster of eighteen similarly dated sites located in the Supe Valley included in what is now called the Caral-Supe Civilization are important because together they represent the earliest known urban settlement in the Americas--nearly 4600 years before the present.

By contrast, the Inca state rose during the 15th century AD; the Nasca Empire about 0 AD; Teotihuacan first flowered ca. 200 BC; Monte Albán about 500 BC; Chavín society 1000 BC; Olmec society 1200 BC. The culture represented by the Supe valley sites dates as early as 2600 BC, when Khufu was building the pyramids at Giza.

Caral

History
Caral was inhabited between roughly 2600 BCE and 2000 BCE, enclosing an area of 66 hectares.[2] Caral was described by its excavators as the oldest urban center in the Americas, a claim that was later challenged as other ancient sites were found nearby. Accommodating more than 3,000 inhabitants, it is the best studied and one of the largest Norte Chico sites known.

Norte Chico civilization

The radiocarbon work of Jonathan Haas et al., found that 10 of 95 samples taken in the Pativilca and Fortaleza areas dated from before 3500 BC; the oldest, dating from 9210 BC, provides "limited indication" of human settlement during the Pre-Columbian Early Archaic era.

I have added three videos on the fairly recent discoveries at Caral and how it is so important to the history of South America. What hasn't been determined yet is the genetic make up of Carals populous. Polynesian connection? Stay tuned.





Well this ends Part-2. If have missed your favorite location or topic please feel to post pictures, links and any other information you want to contribute. We will continue the rest of our journey with Part-3. Which by the way is already completed. I wrote Part-3 simultaneously with Part-2.

I will post that one after this thread runs it's course. {Maybe in a week or two} Don't worry I already have it backed up in triplicate this time. We will be headed to Europe, Eastern Europe and a much more in depth look at the Ancient Mediterranean civilizations. And Yes, we will finally discuss Homo Sapien vs Neanderthal. Again thank you for your patience.

reply to post by SLAYER69

---

I have confession to make. i am not really a teacher unless you count fire instructor and teacher of fire sciences. i picked this screen name because i study esoteric stuff, and i picked the word teacher, which to me means to share information. i also picked this screen name because the initials are E.T., and it seemed appropriate for ATS.

but, if i were really a teacher, i would give this an:



thanks for putting this together and sharing it with us.


sometimes a Star and a Flag just are not enough,
et

reply to post by SLAYER69

---

Whether I agree with the theory of Atlantis or not, stellar work, SLAYER69, stellar work indeed.

Considering I have been a conspiracy theorist since I was age six I admire your dedication.

Your threads never cease to amaze in their intricasy and vast information allowing others to form their own opinions.



Your work has my seal of approval with a star and flag.

reply to post by SLAYER69

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Great work Slayer. One can only fathom what life or the Earth looked like 30,000 years ago. But I do know this, with so many pyramids the ancients had to have had a Greater Teacher; who or what that is I don’t know. But I think Antarctica holds the key and the coastal plains which have been covered under the ocean as you mentioned earlier. S&F

reply to post by SLAYER69

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I have always been under the impression that nearly
all civilizations have 'stories' of world-wide floods.Being
a christian, who reads the King James Version of the
Bible,I believe the world-wide flood story.

I have wondered if there was a water barrier that encircled
the globe years ago.This barrier could have protected the
people from harmful radiation from the sun.In the Bible,
people used to live longer lives than we do now.Something
could have disrupted the barrier and the water flooded
the earth.The radiation from the sun caused people to age
and shortened their life cycle.

I am thinking,maybe the earth could have suffered a polar
shift.The shift would have caused massive flooding and
probably sank many coastal lands and islands.

I was always facinated with stories of atlantis and lost
civilizations.The stories about lemuria,I haven't been as
interested in it,as I have been about atlantis.I used to have
a copy of a 1947 issue of 'Amazing Stories' dealing with the
Shaver Mystery.I found the story interesting enough,but,
I didn't give it much thought.

hubpages.com...
The Lemuria story and the Shaver mystery are a bit hard
to swallow.I remember that Shaver spent many years in a
mental hospital.
Very good thread Slayer,star and flag
The link that I posted has been removed,sorry

The alignment of man's temples were necessarily aligned to determine the seasons.
However due to changes in the Earth even under recorded history some temples
are said to be misaligned.
Non believers in the work of Velikovsky must thus push back man's structures
that do not align into unrecorded history.
ED:
Lemuria story Shaver mystery

Lemuria story Shaver mystery
ED+: four early ages of man according to Velikovsky
Unpublished archives so we get to read them.
ED++: Around -600BC Danial came back from Exile with the new Babylonian calendar
that has since been stable without cosmic disturbance according to Velicovsky if I
read him right as he jumps around quite a lot.

Book deal! I would buy ten.

I don't even know where to begin. I'll be looking at this for days



What an effort. Thank you slay.
Will you be having more time to post partner? Miss your humor on the baords.
This is flippin fantastic bro. I'm still flabergasted at the photos you come up with.
The research invoved must be immense.

I just posted both 1 and 2 up to my face book and I don't mind saying I have quite a number of friends.

Thanks all of you for your kind words. It is appreciated. I was asked why I had left out the Pacific islands and their possible mysterious past. While doing research I realized that the ancient history of the greater Pacific is worthy of it's own thread. Suffice it to say I'm already working on that very topic.

Stay tuned.

ANCIENT TONGA AND THE LOST CITY OF MU'A?

In the traditional view of ancient Tonga, the islands were first settled about 3500 years ago as part of the movement of seafarers from the western islands of Indonesia to the Pacific Islands beyond New Guinea. With their movements determined by the discovery of the distinctive Lapita pottery, the Lapita people continued out into the western Pacific, beyond the already inhabited Solomon Islands and Vanuatu archipelago to the uninhabited islands of Fiji, Tonga and Samoa. Archaeologists speculate that the Lapita people existed for about 1,000 years and then suddenly the use of pottery died out and the technology was lost.

reply to post by dethduck

---

Thank you for your reply.

I get the feeling from your response that you haven't read part 1?
Which is fine. In Part 1 I've already explained in some details some of what you mentioned.

reply to post by Esoteric Teacher

---

Hey thanks.

I haven't seen an A+ in many moons.

reply to post by SLAYER69

---

I have not read part 1 in a while, but I am thinking that once you get part 3 up I will go back over all three.

You do know how to put a thread together.

That house looks very much like a Flintstone home, almost makes me think this is where the inspiration behind the Flintstone homes came from or at least something similar.

Much of what you have presented has taken me aback even things I did know, however there is one part that I did not know or see before that really was a hit with me; I am still amazed at the information in the three part video you posted and that I never saw it before, it sounds like it was an almost Utopian society, no war, and farmers trading with the fisherman and vice versa. Even the way that the dead child was cared for upon its death, which they determined was most likely a natural death and not a sacrifice, which was interesting in itself. An ancient society that, so far, has not turned up human sacrifice is most interesting to me.

reply to post by AlienCarnage

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Great observation.
What I also find very interesting is how supposedly at the farthest point of the ancient migration from the land bridge theory we find the oldest civilization. Why not in North America or Central America? Why at the farthest point? Unless North America was inhospitable because of the Ice Age then Central and South America would have been preferred, That or those People came from the ocean.

reply to post by SLAYER69

---

Yeah, I haven't had a chance to read part 1 yet. Looking to be a great thread.
Planning on reading through them both thoroughly friday when I get home from work.

reply to post by SLAYER69

---

Even if North America was uninhabitable, and they came that way, that would have been one heck of a trek to get there. They would have left evidence along the way of coming that way I would think. Has there been found any evidence of people migrating south that would fit into the timescale of the start of this society?

If they came from the north into the area they could have become farmers and some moved to the shoreline and became fisherman. If they crossed the ocean somehow, they would have landed at the shoreline and became fisherman, and some would have moved further inland and became farmers. If some came from the north and became farmers and some traveled the oceans and became fisherman, they could have formed two separate societies around the same time. Is there any evidence of one of these theories over the other? I will be watching the video again and again to see if my questions are answered in it.

It is interesting to me that this civilization started around the same time as the Egyptians were starting their civilization. One civilization peace full and living harmoniously the other was a warring society, almost a yin and yang.

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