Revelation; The seven churches (have been promised)

Originally posted by Gaussq

Originally posted by DISRAELI
"When the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all truth...He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you"- John ch16 13-14

You never explained why Jesus could not communicate with us for 2000 years on earth when everything went astray in church.

Did you not read the above quotation from John?
That is Jesus communicting with us.

reply to post by Gaussq



here i quote gaussq ;-
"Again, you must read up before making conclusions. Anyone can interpret the bible in 1000 ways as it suits themselves. Read Jesus words instead, those are what count."

yes, a 1000 different ways! and when you read jesus's words, it is you, the reader, who must decide what they mean.

and the majority of christians will interpret it more or less the traditional way because they are caught in the traditional "rut". they have been raised as christians, or converted to christianity by christians. so they cannot stray far from the traditional understanding. they will naturally reject any interpretation that veers to far from that.

but i fancy a bhuddist or hindu would not draw the same conclusions if they studied the bible. certainly an advaita vedantist would draw conclusions that might shock a christian. very few people bother to use their highest mental faculty, the discriminatory faculty, when concluding what any passage of any holy book means.
and there are several holy books, the bible is not a monopoly.

and so the posters continue to "spar" with each other. all are rooted in their particular understanding and bias.
and when the thread finally closes, none, or close to none, will have changed their stance.

i was raised with the bible and thought it a fairy story. but after stumbling upon certain eastern philosophies, i found the golden thread that runs through most holy books. then the bible made more sense. christ is a state of consciousness that will soon permeate all that are fit to survive the approaching last days of this old earth, soon to be replaced by a new earth. or something like it. after all, "god" being infinite, we could not hope to understand all that will soon occur. in our present state, we cannot comprehend that separation is an illusion, and that only "god" exists. it is the basis for morality on earth.

just my 2 cents worth.

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by Gaussq

Originally posted by DISRAELI
"When the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all truth...He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you"- John ch16 13-14

You never explained why Jesus could not communicate with us for 2000 years on earth when everything went astray in church.

Did you not read the above quotation from John?
That is Jesus communicting with us.

This passage refers to high-level cultivators(much more common in the old times) with their third eye open. Do you reckon your third eye is open? In that case it is a matter of level.

The third eye has been explained thoroughly in the book Zhuan Falun:

The Issue of the Celestial Eye

Many qigong masters have already spoken of the Celestial Eye. The Fa, however, has different manifestations at different levels. A practitioner whose cultivation has reached a particular level can only see manifestations at that level. He is unable to see the truth beyond that level, and neither will he believe it. Therefore, he only regards what he sees at his level as correct. Before his cultivation reaches a higher level, he thinks that those things do not exist and are not believable; this is determined by his level, and his mind is unable to elevate. In other words, on the issue of the Celestial Eye, some people talk about it one way while others talk about it another way. As a result, they have confused it, and in the end nobody can explain it clearly. The Celestial Eye, in fact, is something that cannot be explained clearly at the low level. In the past, the structure of the Celestial Eye belonged to the secret of secrets, and everyday people were forbidden from knowing it. Therefore, throughout history nobody has talked about it. But here we do not address it based on theories from the past. We use modern science and the simplest modern language to explain it, and we are addressing its fundamental issues.

The Celestial Eye that we refer to is, in fact, located slightly above and between one’s eyebrows, and it is connected to the pineal body. This is the main channel. The human body has many additional eyes. The Tao School says that each aperture is an eye. The Tao School calls an acupuncture point in the body an "aperture" while Chinese medicine calls it an acupuncture point. The Buddha School holds that each sweat pore is an eye. Therefore, some people can read with the ears, and some can see with the hands or from the back of the head; still others can see with the feet or stomach. It is all possible.

Speaking of the Celestial Eye, we will first talk about this pair of physical human eyes. Nowadays, some people think that this pair of eyes can see any matter or object in this world. Therefore, some people have developed the stubborn notion that only what one can see through the eyes is real and concrete. They do not believe what they cannot see. In the past, such people were considered to have poor enlightenment quality, though some people could not explain clearly why these people’s enlightenment quality was poor. No seeing, no believing. That may sound quite reasonable. Yet from the perspective of a slightly higher level, it is not reasonable. Every time-space is made of matter. Of course, different time-spaces have different physical structures and various manifesting forms of different lives.

Let me give you an example. In Buddhism, it is said that every phenomenon in human society is illusory and unreal. How are they illusions? Real and concrete physical objects are placed right here, so who would claim that they are false? A physical object’s form of existence appears like this, but the way it actually manifests is not. Our eyes, nonetheless, have the capability to stabilize physical objects in our physical dimension to the state that we can see now. The objects are not actually in this state, and they are not in this state even in our dimension. For instance, what does a person look like under a microscope? The whole body is made of loose, tiny molecules, just like grains of sand that are in motion. Electrons orbit nuclei, and the whole body is squirming and moving. The surface of the body is neither smooth nor regular. Any matter in the universe, such as steel, iron, and rock are the same, and inside, all of their molecular elements are in motion. You cannot see their entire form, and they are actually not stable. This table is also squirming, yet your eyes cannot see the truth. This pair of eyes can give one a false impression like that.

It is not that we cannot see things at the microscopic level, or that people do not have this capability. People are born with this capability, and they can see things at a certain microscopic level. Precisely because in this physical dimension we have this pair of eyes, people receive a false impression and are prohibited from seeing things. Thus, in the past it was said that if people did not believe what they could not see, such people would be regarded by the community of cultivators as having poor enlightenment quality, as being deluded by the false impressions of everyday people, and as being lost among everyday people. This is a statement historically made by religions. Actually, we have also found it quite reasonable.

This pair of eyes can stabilize things in this physical dimension of ours to such a state. Besides that, they do not have any other significant capability. When one looks at something, the image does not form directly in one’s eyes. The eyes are like the lens of a camera, acting only as a tool. When viewing at a distance, the lens extends; our eyes also assume this function. When looking in the dark, the pupils enlarge. When a camera takes a picture in the dark, its aperture also enlarges. Otherwise, the entire picture is dark with insufficient light exposure. When one walks into a very bright outdoor place, one’s pupils contract instantly. One’s eyes would otherwise be dazzled by the light, and one would be incapable of seeing things clearly. A camera works by the same principle, and the aperture also needs to contract. It can only capture the image of an object, and it is just a tool. When we actually see things, a person, or see an object’s form of existence, the images are formed in the brain. That is, what we see through the eyes is sent to the pineal body in the rear of the brain via the optic nerve, and it is then reflected as images in that area. This is to say that the actual reflected images are seen in the pineal body of the brain. Modern medicine also recognizes this.

The opening of the Celestial Eye that we address avoids using the human optic nerve and opens a passageway between one’s eyebrows so that the pineal body can directly see the outside. This is called the opening of the Celestial Eye. Some people may ponder: "This isn’t realistic. After all, this pair of eyes can still serve as a tool, and they can capture images of objects, something impossible without the eyes." Modern medical dissection has already discovered that the front section of the pineal body is equipped with the complete structure of a human eye. Because it grows inside one’s skull, it is thus said to be a vestigial eye. Whether it is a vestigial eye or not, our community of cultivators has reservations. Yet modern medicine has, after all, already recognized that there is an eye in the middle of the human brain. The passageway that we open targets exactly that location, and this happens to agree completely with the understanding of modern medicine. This eye does not create false images like our pair of physical eyes, as it sees both the nature of matter and the essence of matter. Therefore, a person with high-level Celestial Eye can see beyond our dimension into other time-spaces, and he can see scenes that ordinary people cannot see. A person with a low-level Celestial Eye may have the penetrative vision to see things through a wall and look through a human body. It has precisely this supernormal ability.

The Buddha School talks about five levels of eyesight: Flesh Eyesight, Celestial Eyesight, Wisdom Eyesight, Fa Eyesight, and Buddha Eyesight. These are the five major levels of the Celestial Eye, and each is subdivided into upper, middle and lower levels. The Tao School talks about nine times nine or eighty-one levels of Fa Eyesight. We are opening the Celestial Eye for everyone here, but we do not open it at or below Celestial Eyesight. Why? Though you sit here and have begun to practice cultivation, you are, after all, just beginning from the level of an everyday person with many everyday people’s attachments still not abandoned. If your Celestial Eye is opened below Celestial Eyesight, you will have what everyday people regard as supernormal abilities, as you can see things through a wall and see through a human body. If we provided this supernormal ability widely and if everyone’s Celestial Eye were opened to this level, it would severely disturb ordinary human society and disrupt the state of ordinary human society: state secrets would be jeopardized; it would be the same whether people wore clothes or not, and you could see people in a house from outside; while strolling on the street, you could pick up all the top prizes of the lottery if you saw them. That would not be permitted! Think about it, everyone: Would that still be a human society if everyone’s Celestial Eye were opened to Celestial Eyesight? Severely disturbing the state of human society is absolutely prohibited. If I indeed opened your Celestial Eye to that level, you might become a qigong master right away. Some people dreamed before about becoming qigong masters. If their Celestial Eye were opened all of a sudden, they would be able to treat patients. Wouldn’t I be taking you down an evil path in that case?

Then, at what level do I open your Celestial Eye? I will open your Celestial Eye directly at the level of Wisdom Eyesight. If it were opened at a higher level, your xinxing would not be adequate. If it were opened at a lower level, it would severely disturb the state of ordinary human society. With Wisdom Eyesight, you do not have the ability to see things through a wall or see through a human body, but you can see the scenes existing in other dimensions. What benefits does this have? It can enhance your confidence in the practice. When you indeed see something that everyday people cannot see, you will think that it certainly exists. No matter whether you can see something clearly at present, your Celestial Eye will be opened at this level, and this is good for your practice. A true Dafa practitioner can obtain the same result by reading this book, provided that he is strict with himself in improving xinxing.

What determines one’s Celestial Eye level? It is not that once your Celestial Eye is opened, you are able to see everything—it is not so. There is still a classification of levels. So, what determines the levels? There are three factors. The first is that one’s Celestial Eye must have a field going from the inside to the outside, and we call this the essence of qi. What use does it have? It is like a television screen: Without phosphor, after a television is turned on, it is still just a light bulb. It will only have light, but no images. It is because of phosphor that images are displayed. Of course, this example is not quite fitting because we see things directly while a television set displays images through a screen. That is roughly the idea. This bit of the essence of qi is extremely precious, and it is made of a finer substance that is refined from de. Normally, each person’s essence of qi is different. Perhaps two out of ten thousand people are at the same level.

Celestial Eye level is the direct manifestation of our universe’s Fa. It is something supernatural and closely related to one’s xinxing. If a person’s xinxing level is low, his level is low. Because of low-level xinxing, much of this person’s essence of qi is lost. If a person’s xinxing level is high, and in ordinary human society he has from childhood to adulthood cared little for fame, profit, interpersonal conflicts, personal gain, and various human sentiments and desires, his essence of qi may be preserved relatively better. Therefore, after his Celestial Eye is opened, he can see things more clearly. A child under six can see things very clearly once his Celestial Eye is opened. It is also easy to open his Celestial Eye. If I say a word, it will open.

Because of contamination from the powerful current or big dye vat of ordinary human society, the things that people consider correct are, actually, often wrong. Doesn’t everyone want to live a good life? Desiring a good life may infringe upon others’ interests, whet one’s selfish desires, take away others’ benefits, or lead to bullying and harming others. One will compete and fight for personal gain among everyday people. Isn’t this going against the characteristic of the universe? Thus, what people consider correct might not necessarily be correct. In educating a child, an adult often teaches him, "You should learn to be smart," so that in the future he will get a foothold in ordinary human society. From the perspective of our universe, "to be smart" is already wrong, for we require following the course of nature and caring little for personal gain. Being so smart, he intends to pursue self-interest. "Whoever bullies you, go to his teacher and find his parents." "Pick up money if you see it on the ground." The child is taught this way. From childhood to adulthood, as he receives more things, he will gradually become increasingly selfish in ordinary human society. He will take advantage of others and lose de.

This substance, de, does not vanish after one loses it. It is transferred to another person. Yet this essence of qi can disappear. If one is very wily from childhood to adulthood with a strong desire for self-interest and solely seeks profit, this person’s Celestial Eye will, after opening, normally not work or see things clearly. This does not mean, however, that it will never be functional from that point on. Why? Because in the course of cultivation practice we try to return to our original, true selves, and through persistent practice we will be able to constantly compensate for it and recover it. Therefore, one must pay attention to xinxing. We stress holistic improvement and holistic upgrade. If xinxing is upgraded, everything else will follow up. If xinxing is not upgraded, that bit of essence of qi will not be recovered, either. This is the principle.

The second factor is that when a person practices qigong on his own, his Celestial Eye can also open if his inborn quality is good. Oftentimes, some people become frightened at the moment when their Celestial Eye opens. Why are they frightened? It is because people usually practice qigong at midnight, when the night is dark and quiet. As a person practices, he may suddenly see a large eye before his eyes, scaring him abruptly. This scare is unusually great, and he will not dare to practice qigong after that. How frightening! A blinking eye that is so big is looking at you, and it is vividly clear. Consequently, some people call it a demon’s eye, while others call it a Buddha’s eye, and so on. In fact, it is your own eye. Of course, cultivation depends on one’s own efforts, while transforming gong is done by one’s master. The whole process of transforming gong is very complex, and occurs in other dimensions. The body does not only change in just another one dimension, but in all different dimensions. Can you do that by yourself? You cannot. These things are arranged by the master and performed by the master. Therefore, it is said that cultivation depends on one’s own efforts, while transforming gong is done by one’s master. You can only have such a wish and think about it like that, but it is the master who actually does these things.

Some people open their Celestial Eye through their own practice. We refer to that eye of yours, but you are incapable of developing it by yourself. Some people have masters who, upon finding out that their Celestial Eye are open, will transform one for them. It is called the real eye. Of course, some people do not have a master, but there may be a master who passes by. The Buddha School states: "Buddhas are omnipresent." They are so numerous that they are everywhere. Some people also say: "There are spiritual beings three feet above one’s head," meaning that they are simply countless. If a passing-by master sees that you have practiced very well with the Celestial Eye opened and that you need an eye, he or she will transform one for you, which can also count as a result of your own cultivation. In offering salvation to people, there is no condition or consideration for cost, reward, or fame. They are thus far more noble than the heroes of everyday people. They do it completely out of their benevolent compassion.

After one’s Celestial Eye is opened, a situation will occur: one’s eyes will be severely dazzled by light and feel irritated. It is actually not irritating your eyes. Instead, it is your pineal body that is irritated, though you feel as if your eyes are irritated. That is because you have not yet acquired this eye. After you are supplied with this eye, your physical eyes are no longer irritated. A number of our practitioners will be able to feel or see this eye. Because it embodies the same nature as the universe, it is very innocent and also curious. It looks in to examine whether your Celestial Eye is open and if it can see things. It looks inside at you as well. At this point your Celestial Eye is open. While it looks at you, you will be scared upon suddenly seeing it. In fact, this is your own eye. From now on, when you look at things, you will see things through this eye. Even if your Celestial Eye is open, you will be completely unable to see things without this eye.

The third factor is the differences that are manifested in different dimensions after one makes breakthroughs in levels. This is the issue that truly determines one’s level. In addition to the main channel for seeing things, people also have many sub-channels. The Buddha School holds that each sweat pore is an eye, while the Tao School claims that every aperture of the body is an eye. That is, all acupuncture points are eyes. Of course, what they discuss is still one form of the Fa’s transformations in the body; one can see things from any part of the body.

The level that we refer to is different from that. In addition to the main channel, there are also several major sub-channels in several places, i.e., above the two eyebrows, above and below the eyelids, and at the shangen point.1 They determine the issue of making breakthroughs in levels. Of course, for an average practitioner, if he can see things with these several places, he has already reached a very high level. Some people can also see things with their physical eyes. They, too, have succeeded in cultivating these eyes that are also equipped with different forms of supernormal abilities. If this eye is not used well, however, one will always look at one object without seeing the other. That will not work, either. Thus, some people often see one side with one eye and the other side with the other eye. Yet there is no sub-channel below this eye (the right eye) because it is related directly to the Fa. People tend to use the right eye to commit wrongdoing; so no sub-channel exists below the right eye. These refer to several major sub-channels that are developed in one’s In-Triple-World-Fa cultivation.

After reaching an extremely high level and Beyond-Triple-World-Fa cultivation, an eye that resembles a compound eye will form. Specifically, in the upper face a large eye will appear with numerous tiny eyes within it. Some great enlightened people at very high levels have cultivated so many eyes that they are all over their faces. All eyes see things through this large eye, and they can see whatever they want. With one glance, they are able to see all levels. Today, zoologists and entomologists conduct research on flies. A fly’s eye is very big; through microscopy, it is known to have numerous tiny eyes inside it, and this is called a compound eye. After practitioners reach an extremely high level, this situation may occur. One has to be many times higher than the Tathagata level to make this possible. Yet an ordinary person cannot see it. People at the average level also cannot see its existence, and because it exists in another dimension they can only see that he or she is like a normal person. This explains the breakthroughs in levels. That is to say, it is an issue of whether one can reach different dimensions.

I have basically outlined the structure of the Celestial Eye for everyone. We open your Celestial Eye with an external force, so it is relatively faster and easier. When I was talking about the Celestial Eye, each of you could feel that your forehead was tight; the muscles felt like they were piling up together and drilling inward. It was so, wasn’t it? It was like this. As long as you truly put your mind to studying Falun Dafa here, everyone will feel it; the external force comes very strongly when drilling inward. I have released the specialized energy that opens the Celestial Eye. Meanwhile, I have also sent out Falun to repair your Celestial Eye. While I was talking about the Celestial Eye, I was opening the Celestial Eye for everyone, provided they practice cultivation in Falun Dafa. However, not everyone can necessarily see things clearly, and neither can everyone necessarily see things with it. That has something to do directly with you, yourself. Never mind, as it does not matter if you cannot see things with it. Take your time to cultivate it. As you constantly upgrade your level, you will gradually be able to see things, and your clouded vision will become increasingly clear. As long as you practice cultivation and make up your mind to practice cultivation, you will recover all of what you have lost.

Originally posted by orangutang
reply to post by Gaussq

 

here i quote gaussq ;-
"Again, you must read up before making conclusions. Anyone can interpret the bible in 1000 ways as it suits themselves. Read Jesus words instead, those are what count."

yes, a 1000 different ways! and when you read jesus's words, it is you, the reader, who must decide what they mean.

and the majority of christians will interpret it more or less the traditional way because they are caught in the traditional "rut". they have been raised as christians, or converted to christianity by christians. so they cannot stray far from the traditional understanding. they will naturally reject any interpretation that veers to far from that.

Thanks for those 2 cents! I agree on most of what you say, truth is variable depending on level.

What I mean when saying "Read Jesus words" is of course to read what Jesus told Swedenborg in the 1700s about the bible interpretations having gone astray. He rectified all the heretic ideas in these scriptures. Of course the establishment tried to shove it away but truth is truth.

The main difference between me and Disraeli lies here, like most other modern theologists he refuses to believe Jesus communicated with mankind for 2000 years while I certainly think he could and did - the last time through Swedenborg.

Is it a mere coincidence a virtuous genius like Swedenborg produces 50 000 pages with perfect logics around the bible and apocalypse, claiming that Jesus chose him as his last true prophet to warn people of the impending disaster for Christianity(and mankind)?

TRY TO FIND ONE OTHER PERSON WHO SAYS HE WAS JESUS LAST PROPHET, BACKING IT UP WITH 50 000 PAGES OF INGENIUS BIBLE ANALYSIS. YOU WILL NOT FIND HIM, THERE WAS JUST ONE LAST PROPHET WHO WAS GENUINE, HE WAS SWEDENBORG.

A CON ARTIST WOULD HAVE BEEN KILLED BY HIGHER POWERS AND HIS TEACHINGS WOULD NEVER HAVE MADE IT THROUGH THE CENTURIES.

Originally posted by Gaussq
TRY TO FIND ONE OTHER PERSON WHO SAYS HE WAS JESUS LAST PROPHET, BACKING IT UP WITH 50 000 PAGES OF INGENIUS BIBLE ANALYSIS. YOU WILL NOT FIND HIM, THERE WAS JUST ONE LAST PROPHET WHO WAS GENUINE, HE WAS SWEDENBORG.

A CON ARTIST WOULD HAVE BEEN KILLED BY HIGHER POWERS AND HIS TEACHINGS WOULD NEVER HAVE MADE IT THROUGH THE CENTURIES.

I will take this challenge my friend. I am a prophet of Jesus. I back it up with my actions, my words, and my thoughts. Furthermore, this does not make me special. Many many men and women have read the words of Jesus, learned their lessons, found salvation, and have gone to live according to his life.

Your Falun Dafa is no more special than you make him out to be for yourself. Jesus' testimony was not about putting his words to paper and translating it. It was about understanding them then living them. I am not interested in any man who wrote 50,000 pages. A man who fed 50,000 starving people, he is a prophet of Jesus. A man who has healed 50,000 sick, he is a prophet of Jesus. A man who has given up all he has, that others may not want, he is a prophet of Jesus. A man who has freed his people from the tyrrany of another, he is a Prophet of Jesus.

A man who sits on high, and says come to me and find salvation, he is NOT Jesus, nor a prophet of HIM.

Your welcome to your version of the Truth my friend. I will have none of it. The Truth of Jesus is not one that can be forced on another. No, it flows like a gentle stream down a mountain into the very soul. It needs no force because it is Truth.

Judge not, Love all, be at peace.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by Gaussq
TRY TO FIND ONE OTHER PERSON WHO SAYS HE WAS JESUS LAST PROPHET, BACKING IT UP WITH 50 000 PAGES OF INGENIUS BIBLE ANALYSIS. YOU WILL NOT FIND HIM, THERE WAS JUST ONE LAST PROPHET WHO WAS GENUINE, HE WAS SWEDENBORG.

A CON ARTIST WOULD HAVE BEEN KILLED BY HIGHER POWERS AND HIS TEACHINGS WOULD NEVER HAVE MADE IT THROUGH THE CENTURIES.

I will take this challenge my friend. I am a prophet of Jesus. I back it up with my actions, my words, and my thoughts. Furthermore, this does not make me special. Many many men and women have read the words of Jesus, learned their lessons, found salvation, and have gone to live according to his life.

Swedenborg was granted rights to see all of the three realms with Jesus as his guide, he met all the saints and historic people. He saw all the levels and depths of hell and the multitude of the heavens. In short, he could see with the level of the eyes of Jesus. That is completely different from someone having third eye level at various heavenly layers. Jesus has Tathagata level vision.

Who can make up what Swedenborg explicitly explained about the three realms, the Bible, the Apocalypse etc including the aliens and other ETs?

Of course nobody an be force fed any truth and nobody can come for serious cultivation without a sincere wish to do it inside his heart, he must be in sincere search of a higher truth in his heart. Higher truth is found in FD - compare what the Bible explains about third eye with what I wrote above. Is there a similar high level in the bible? No.


Cultivation all starts with your mind, transform your mind and erase all those postnatal bad thoughts, karma and bad notions that sit inside of you. Your "truth" might just change for something better when you change your mind and eliminate a little bit karma by Lotus meditation.

Originally posted by Gaussq
Swedenborg was granted rights to see all of the three realms with Jesus as his guide, he met all the saints and historic people. He saw all the levels and depths of hell and the multitude of the heavens. In short, he could see with the level of the eyes of Jesus. That is completely different from someone having third eye level at various heavenly layers. Jesus has Tathagata level vision.

I have no problem with someone stating they see with the eyes of Jesus. I believe we all can and should. What I have a problem with is when they claim to see with eyes open, yet fail to act as if they do, as in fail to act as Jesus would. One cannot see as Jesus and not be compelled, internally, to act like Jesus. By act, I mean act with the charity and forgiveness, NOT false impersonation

Originally posted by GaussqWho can make up what Swedenborg explicitly explained about the three realms, the Bible, the Apocalypse etc including the aliens and other ETs?

Have you seen Star Wars? George Lucas painted a similar "vision" if you will.

Originally posted by GaussqOf course nobody an be force fed any truth and nobody can come for serious cultivation without a sincere wish to do it inside his heart, he must be in sincere search of a higher truth in his heart. Higher truth is found in FD - compare what the Bible explains about third eye with what I wrote above. Is there a similar high level in the bible? No.

Perhaps you did not find this higher level, but I have. The third eye is in the brain. It is a realm of the brain where all things are possible. Anything can be visualised there. Does it impact the physical realm? NO.

The physical realm is where the divine realm of the mind should manifest through physical action. If your manifestation of this realm is to attract followers, or to claim enlightenment while you watch others suffer you are using it for a base and unGodly purpose in my opinion. If you are using it to help Mankind as a whole, and to relieve suffering then you are using it for a divine purpose.

Originally posted by GaussqCultivation all starts with your mind, transform your mind and erase all those postnatal bad thoughts, karma and bad notions that sit inside of you. Your "truth" might just change for something better when you change your mind and eliminate a little bit karma by Lotus meditation.

I did not need "Lotus" meditation to achieve this. I simply read the words of Jesus as they are in the Bible, meditated on their meaning, realised why he lead the life he did, and chose to ask forgiveness of what I did do wrong to others. Once granted, and it was granted, I then chose to live my life by his standard, finding it to be the truest form of worship to God, not myself.

Now if you find such blessing in peace in Fa, by all means have it. If it brings you to love your fellow Man as God intended, be blessed in it. If it saves you from the burden of sin, the harms you have done to others in life, rejoice in it. If it so moves you that you would rather have nothing than see a fellow man suffer, it is DIVINE for YOU.

But, it isn't the same for all. And, it isn't your place to judge another's just as I am not judging yours.

Judge Not, Love All, be at peace,

with Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


Are you saying Swedenborg was not living according to his words? How would you know that?

To most people the most attractive cultivation school is one of body and soul, not justone leaving out the other.

We have religions that cultivate your soul only(Buddhism also includes karma elimination through double Lotus meditation) and we have Qi Gong that cultivates your body only. Falun Dafa cultivates both of course and includes karma(Pay off your sins from this life and previous lives) elimination.

To me body and soul cultivation is very attractive, you gain perfect health in the process of body cultivation too and your ageing slows down more and more.

Originally posted by Gaussq
Are you saying Swedenborg was not living according to his words? How would you know that?

I am not looking at Swedenborg himself any other way than through your eyes. The way you speak of him tells me that you think he possesses a Truth that is outside you. The Truth is within you. I am more interested in what your Truth is, not the words of anyone other than you. So far, all you have said is Swedenborg, Swedenborg, Swedenborg, Falun Dafa, Falun Dafa, Falun Dafa!!!!

Do you not see that you are idolising these men? What Does God say to YOU?

Swedenborg and Falun Dafa, may very well be hearing Gods voice. But if they dare say they are alone in this, they are liars.

God is all around us. His voice penetrates us all. Every man has a right to hear his Truth through his own ears. Every man has a right to see his wonders all around them. Every man has a right to comprehend it all to the best of their ability. However, if you think it is another man who has these rights exclusively to himself, you sir, are a liar, and a sinner.

To lie, is to claim another man's Truth is false to him, for all have free will to deside for themselves what is true for themselves.

To sin, is to usurp another man's free will.

These are God given, and no man can take them away. If you wish to hand your free will over to another, then by all means do so. Jesus was a man who opened the eyes of people to their free will and desired them reclaim it. That is HIS Truth, and that is the one I spread.

Choose your Truth wisely my friend, it is your divine right.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by Gaussq
Are you saying Swedenborg was not living according to his words? How would you know that?

I am not looking at Swedenborg himself any other way than through your eyes. The way you speak of him tells me that you think he possesses a Truth that is outside you. The Truth is within you. I am more interested in what your Truth is, not the words of anyone other than you. So far, all you have said is Swedenborg, Swedenborg, Swedenborg, Falun Dafa, Falun Dafa, Falun Dafa!!!!

Do you not see that you are idolising these men? What Does God say to YOU?

God says to me: Do not preach your own truth to the public because it is worth nothing and always more or less wrong since you are far from seeing the real truth of cosmos and risk developing an attachment to fame if people like your truth and start regarding you as an authority. Instead show people the truth of God(his scriptures), all other truths are only misleading. I tell you, go read the FD scriptures about body and soul cultivation if you are interested in a higher truth about becoming a good person in practice, develop third eye vision, supernormal abilities, perfect health, staying young, sleep less with more energy etc etc.

It is up to every one within the same cultivation schools to discuss their individual truths and how to raise their level(increase Xinxing character) and hence see higher "truth."

The difference between you and me is that I consider my God´s truth the only interesting truth. I showed you his truth about the celestial eye above.

PS: Falun Dafa is changing this cosmos and soon everyone will see it down here too, every good person who follows truth-compassion-forbearance(Falun Dafa base) in his actions of his daily life has a good future. Just remember the base of Falun Dafa is good and act like that in your daily life.

Wish you good luck.

/Truth-Compassion-Forbearance is good, Falun Dafa is good.

reply to post by Gaussq


2 Thessalonians 2:3 (King James Version)
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Falling away -from the faith.
That man of sin be revealed -the third eye, lucifer


2 Thessalonians 2:4 (King James Version)
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Who exalteth himself above all, worshipped -Satan, Lucifer
As God sitteth in the temple -The temple is us, the believers, not buildings made of stone
Shewing himselft that he is God -The third eye manifesting


2 Thessalonians 2:5-6 (King James Version)
5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

Who is he that would be revealed? -that man of perdition, lucifer


2 Thessalonians 2:7-9 (King James Version)
7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

What is the mystery of iniquity? -a type of sin
Wicked is capitalized -Satan/lucifer
What are power, signs and lying wonders? - false works, false manifestations


2 Thessalonians 2:10-11 (King James Version)
10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:


Deceivableness - deceptive misleading
Unrighteousness -sinful nature, the flesh
Who is the truth? - Jesus John 14:6
Cause -this reason
Delusion - a false belief , opinion, or manifestation
Believe a lie - believing something that is not truth


2 Thessalonians 2:12-15 (King James Version)
12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.



There is wickedness going on that is seen in an obvious way. There is also one who is wicked, which is satan/lucifer. There is only one way to interpret scripture and that is through the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God.

Others can see between the layers of scripture too, but they make this attempt through their own attempts (merit), thus using mind, body, soul. This is not how God said it is done.

Satan can appear as an angel of light. Can he not create manifestations as well? The third eye is a manifestation of Lucifer/Satan. If a man is willing to go through the ‘channels’ to see this manifestation, by his own volition, of course the third eye will be opened, but who is opening that third eye?

Jesus said no man comes to the father by him. If what one is seeing within the pages of scripture is not by him, then it must be from some other source, in which case that person will be given over to their own delusions.

God also can manifest these things through mankind. It is not a ‘third eye’ but a manifestation of the Spirit of God. One must call it a ‘third eye’ because it is gained by his own merit. One can only call it the Spirit of God because it is given by God and not by a persons own merit (earned).

It is a dangerous line to tread, when taking the words of a man such as Li who claims to see, or has written about these manifestations, without seeing the manifestation for oneself. Most will never see it, it is a gift given by God. Satan/Lucifer counterfeits the things of God, or else there would be no warning of him. Satan/Lucifer does not care if one believes that Jesus existed or not, or that Jesus’ words were truthful or not. Satan is after self-worship. Self worship can also be claiming knowledge that was not given by God, but earned on ones own merit, which contradicts everything that Jesus said..

If a man is seeing this manifestation for himself, then he must know by what spirit that manifestation is given. If there is a relationship (not just a belief) with Jesus Christ, and that manifestation occurs, it is from God. If a person is not in relationship with Jesus Christ, but merely believes he existed, then that manifestation is in question, and may not necessarily be seen by the Spirit of God. It could be a manifestation of Lucifer/satan.

There was a distinction made in the post between Jesus Christ and Lord of Lords: Jesus is King of Kings and Lord of Lords in Revelation 19.


Carnal knowledge is reading the text and making ones own interpretations. Spiritual knowledge is knowledge led by the Spirit. There are other spirits at work in the world today that are manifesting themselves, such as 'the third eye'. It is very real, but it is part of the delusion.

reply to post by nlouise


Good question about the third eye.

Indeed it is very dangerous to pursue it as Master Li explains in Zhuan Falun:

How many people are there who have proper thoughts when they do qigong exercises? When a person practices qigong he has to take virtue seriously, do good things for others, and be kind—he should discipline himself this way in every action and in every circumstance. Take all the people doing qigong exercises in the parks and all the ones doing them at home, and how many do you have thinking that way? To be honest, when some people are doing their qigong, who knows what they’re doing, they’ll be exercising away, swinging their bodies all around, and at the same time going off about things—"Ugh! That daughter-in-law of mine has no respect for me," "My mother-in-law is such a wretch!" Some people even go on and on, from talking about things at their company right on to headline news—there’s nothing they don’t babble about, and the things they don’t agree with will blow their fuse. Tell me, is that doing cultivation exercises? And then there are people doing a standing exercise right there, getting so tired their legs shake, but his mind isn’t at rest, "Things are so expensive these days. Prices have gone up, and my company can’t make the payroll. Why can’t my practice bring out some abilities? If I got some abilities I’d be a qigong master, and I’d get rich—I could make money by giving people treatments."

Once he sees that other people’s abilities have come out he gets even more agitated. He gets obsessed with getting abilities, with getting the Third Eye, and with getting healing skills. Now think about it, isn’t that about as far as you can get from the nature of our universe, to be True, Good, and Endure?! He’s simply turning his back on it. To put it a little more seriously, he’s practicing in an evil way! But he isn’t aware of it. The more he thinks like that, the worse the thoughts are that his mind emits. That kind of person doesn’t have a handle on it, he doesn’t know he should take virtue seriously, and he thinks that by doing those movements he can get gong, and that he can get whatever he wants by seeking after it—he thinks that’s how it is.

A person attracts bad things precisely because his thoughts aren’t proper. Then the animal sees it, "This guy wants to get rich off qigong, and that guy wants to get famous and get abilities. Boy, his body is pretty good and what he has is pretty good. But his mind is really bad—he’s after abilities! Maybe he has a master, but even if he does, I’m not afraid." It knows that the master of a true cultivation will see him seeking abilities like that, and the harder he seeks after them the less likely the master will give him them, since that’s exactly an attachment he should get rid of. The more he thinks that way, the less the chance he’ll be given any abilities, so basically the more oblivious he is to how it works, the more he wants them and the worse his thoughts get.

Finally that master gives a deep sigh when he sees that this guy is finished, and he won’t have anything more to do with him. Some people don’t have masters, and maybe somebody who happens to pass by will look after them for a while, since there are so many Enlightened Beings in different dimensions. An Enlightened Being might take a look at him, watch him and follow him for a day, and leave him after he sees that he’s not good. The next day another one comes by, takes a look at him, finds out he’s no good, and off he goes.

The animal knows that whatever kind of master he has, be it a regular one or a passing-by one, his master won’t give him what he’s seeking. Animals can’t see the dimensions where Great Enlightened Beings are, so they aren’t afraid, and they’ve taken advantage of a loophole: our universe has a law, that when somebody wants to seek something, or wants something, normally he shouldn’t be stopped. It takes advantage of that loophole—"He wants them, then I’ll give him them. It’s not wrong for me to help him, right?"

So it gives them to him. At first the animal doesn’t dare get on his body, so it starts by giving him a little gong as a test-run. The person keeps seeking it, and one day he really gets it, and he can even heal people. The animal sees that it’s worked pretty well, and it’s just like playing a prelude before the show really starts. "He wants them, so I’ll get right on his body. And once I’m there I can give him more, I’ll pour it on!" "You want the Third Eye, right? This time I’ll give you it all." So it gets right on him.

While he’s having that thought about wanting it, right there doing that, his Third Eye pops open, he’s able to send out gong, and he’s even got a few little abilities. He’s beside himself with joy, and he thinks that he’s sought and sought these things and finally got them, and he thinks they came from his practice. But actually, his practice didn’t bring him anything. He thinks that he can see through a human body and see where the problems are in someone’s body. In reality, though, his Third Eye isn’t open one bit—it’s that the animal is controlling his brain. That animal sees things with its eyes and then reflects what it sees into his brain, and he thinks his Third Eye is open. "Want to send out gong? Go for it." When he holds out his hands to send out gong, the animal’s little paws extend out from behind his body. When he sends out gong, the forked tongue from the little snake’s head comes out to lick the sick or swollen area. There are a lot of things like this. Those spirits that possess these people come only because they asked for them.

So he seeks after them, he dreams about getting rich, and about getting famous. "Okay then!"—he gets abilities, he can heal people, and he can see with his Third Eye. That makes him happy. The animal takes a look, "You want to get rich, don’t you? Okay, I’ll make you get rich." It’s way too easy to control an ordinary person’s head. The animal can control a lot of people and make them come to him for treatments, and they’ll come in droves. Oh my goodness!—while he sees patients right here, it’s stirring up reporters over there to promote him in newspapers. It manipulates ordinary people to do these things. When someone who comes for a treatment doesn’t pay him enough, he won’t let them off the hook, and he’ll make you have a headache. What it comes down to is that you just have to give him a lot of money.

The guy pulls in both fame and wealth—he’s made a bundle, he’s become well-known, and now he’s a qigong master. People like him usually don’t care about character and they’ll dare to say anything, "I’m second to none but Heaven." They go as far as saying they’re the reincarnations of well-known deities, like the Queen Mother or Jade Emperor, and they even go as far as saying they’re Buddhas. They haven’t really gone through character cultivation, so they seek abilities when they do their exercises and end up getting possessed by animals.

Maybe some of you are thinking, "What’s wrong with that? It’s okay as long as I can make money, or get rich, and I can get famous." That’s what a lot of people are thinking. But I’ll tell you, that animal isn’t doing it without a purpose, it turns out, and it doesn’t give you something for nothing. There’s a law in this universe: no loss, no gain. What does the animal get? I talked about this earlier, didn’t I? It’s trying to get that bit of essence in your body to cultivate into a human form, so it just gathers the essence from the human body. But there’s only this one share of essence in a human body, and if somebody wants to cultivate, he only has this one share. And if you let the animal take it from you, you can forget about cultivating—how would you cultivate then?

You’ll have lost everything, and you won’t be able to cultivate at all. Maybe some people will say, "I don’t want to cultivate. I just want to get rich. All’s well as long as I have money. I couldn’t care less!" Look, I’ll tell you: you want to get rich, but after I explain how it really works, then you’ll change your mind. So what happens? If it leaves your body not too late your limbs will feel like lead, and you’ll be like that for good, because it drained you of too much of your essence. But if it leaves your body late, you will become a vegetable and lie in bed for the rest of your life hanging on by a thread. Even if you had money, would you be able to spend it? Even if you had fame, would you be able to enjoy it? Wouldn’t it be horrible?

These things have become really serious and they’re common among people who practice qigong these days. The animal doesn’t just possess the body, it also kills the person’s master soul, and it burrows into the person’s Niwan Palace and squats there. The person looks like a human being, but he’s not. You even see things like that nowadays. Mankind’s morals have changed, so when some people do bad things, and you tell them they’re doing bad things, they just don’t believe you.

reply to post by Gaussq


You know in a strange way, I understood everything you said?

It is similarly that way in Christianity too. The animal you speak of is sin in our lives. Unconfessed (or unacknowledged) sin in our lives can cause us to make a u-turn and turn our attention to other things or lusts of the flesh. Not everyone follows God with passion, some follow with self motivation such as material gain, or because there is trouble in their lives that they want resolved immediately. Some fail to realize that following (Jesus) is a passion and with that passion, everything else about ourselves become meaningless, such as self merit, self gain or escaping trouble in our lives.

When we allow the Holy Spirit to guide our lives, these things surface in our minds, as situations come up. We become aware of the wrongs that we did, or the motivations of the flesh. It is through this prompting, that we acknowledge those things, which at that point the Holy Spirit also directs and allows those changes in our hearts to occur. Those that ignore these promptings eventually loose any guidence of the Holy Spirit, which then leaves them to their own devices, and they wander back into the flesh again.

reply to post by nlouise


That is great news!

I hope you want to read the whole book Zhuan Falun and see how specific it is explaining the theory of orthodox religions, the cosmos development, future science(human beings abilities are the center of future science) and the inborn human abilities(ie supernormal abilities are inborn abilities that can be reawakened by body and soul cultivation, today they are just repressed by the modern society´s extensive noise disturbing the human focus).

In fact, orthodox religion has been the foundation for Falun Dafa. It started with Buddha Shakyamuni and Lao Zi in Asia and then Jesus came to the west. These enlightened beings came to establish a culture of distinguish right from wrong, good from evil. Then the whole modern history was arranged to end now with the Fa-rectification world event as all the religions have become corrupt. Some people realize this and search for the solution, we all get what we deserve, the best people in mankind´s history obtained the Fa first in the 90s.

All human beings came for this event, a multitude of Gods are incarnated to assist in this event. Especially young people come from higher realms today as they went down when they saw what happened down here now. These yuoungsters can very easily develop supernormal abilities, as I have experienced.

PS: Zhuan Falun: www.falundafa.org...

reply to post by Gaussq


What I am saying to you is that when we walk with God, he gives us a gift. That gift is manifested through the Holy Spirit. In our own fleshly ignorance of the things of God, the Holy Spirit corrects that within us. The only way one can obtain the Holy Spirit is through God.

This gift manifested in us is not by spending hours of meditation on anything other than spending those hours with God. The more time spent with God, the more his will is manifested in us.

Mankind fell, in the garden of Eden. What manifested was sin, which causes death. While they may have obtained knowledge of good and evil, the result was death, both physical and spiritual, a spiritual separation.

The orthodox religion (the law under an old covenant) was done away with. We are in covenant with God, having the law written in our hearts. If all we had was relationship with the Father we would still be completed in Him by the Spirit. But, the words written on the pages of the Bible are those things that are testified of Him which gives us an understanding of Him.

With such a gift (Holy Spirit) in us there is no need to look for other books or learning, Everything is already in the pages of the Bible. Everything is already written within our hearts. God can do all things, whether it be in progression or in an instant. His work is within us and can only be done by walking with Him. In other words we do not need to seek prophets or their words. Jesus who is God manifest in the flesh lives within us. We know who he is and he knows who we are.

He also tells us that he did not come here to make peace with the world. He came to bring a ‘sword’. If we break away from relationship with Him, we then open ourselves up to all the things that he warned us about. He warned us that there would be those who come in ‘His name’. This can happen two ways. There are some who say they are Jesus, and are not. There are some who come in ‘his name’ and are liars. (good examples of this are on televisions)

He also told us that he would not return to this world again in a flesh body. When he comes back EVERY eye will see him. He also said that his kingdom is NOT of this world. He also warned that there will come a time when a liar will appear and will fool many (most of the world), but not the elect. How can one be the ‘elect’ unless he is walking with God?

Do you know if you are walking with God? How do you know?

Do you know if you are walking with God? How do you know?

edit on 17-9-2010 by nlouise because: left out a word

NLouise, try to cultivate your body and mind by becoming a righteous person in all your daily actions. Eliminate all your attachments to your emotions and desires(fame, gain, sex, food&drink, comfort, mental pleasures). Then do the exercises in Falun Dafa including the sitting meditation. If you are a good person(high xinxing level) with little karma(little karma(sins) means your body is flexible and you can sit in double Lotus for a long period of time) you will open your third eye quickly and then you will raise your Gong(energy level) as your xinxing improves. The higher "xinxing" level you reach the more wonderful scenes you can see and the stronger supernatural powers you will develop. The logics is simple and beautiful.

There are said to be nine major heavenly layers. When you manage to break through all these you are an immortal(Arhat level) and have become a God. Then one can rise to Bodhisattva and Tataghata level later. Higher than that level human beings are not allowed to know about. Of course this is tremendously difficult but with the Fa everything is possible.

I believe religious people today are in a most pitiful situation, especially the Buddhist monks who are among the most dedicated religious people. Whatever you tell them about 2000-2500 years of mistranslations, misinterpretations etc etc of their scriptures they will close their eyes to anything outside their own fixed notions, they stop using their intellect to understand things logically. The situation is told in all prophecies, none of the old religions can save people today, the Gods left them a long time ago, Jesus does not care about the Churchgoers whatsoever since they are all kept in the dark and church will be destroyed when the maze falls. Is it a coincidence large parts of the clergy is homosexual these days? What do you think Jesus says about that?

I give you an example, today the Udumbara flower is blossoming all over the world for the first time in 3000 years. This was foretold also in your bible. How many Christians apply their bible on the world?

“Now learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branches bud and its leaves begin to sprout, you know that summer is near. In the same way, when you see all these things, you can know his return is very near, right at the door.-Matt24.32

www.youtube.com...


www.clearwisdom.net...

The udumbara flower of the Ficus racemosa tree appears in chapters 2 and 27 of the 3rd century Lotus Sutra, an important Mahayana Buddhist text. The symbolic nature of the udumbara is used in the Lotus Sutra to compare the unique occurrence of its bloom with the uncommon appearance of the Buddha and its doctrine in the world:


As the Buddhas of the three periods of time In such a manner spoke the Dharma,
So do I likewise now expound The undiscriminated Dharma.
All Buddhas come into the world But rarely, and are hard to meet;
And when they appear in the world,
It’s hard for them to speak the Dharma.
Throughtout countless ages, too, It’s difficult to hear this Dharma.
And those who can hear this Dharma-- Such people too, are rare,
Like the udumbara flower, In which all take delight,
Which the gods and humans prize,
For it blooms but once in a long, long time.
So one who hears this Dharma, gives joyful praise,
With even just a single word, Has thereby made offerings,
To all the Buddhas of the three periods of time.
Such people are extremely rare. Rarer than the udumbara flower.
All of you should have no doubts, For I am the Dharma King;
I declare to the assembly: I use only the path of One Vehicle,
To teach and transform Bodhisattvas.
There are no Sound Hearer Disciples. Shariputra, all of you,
the Sound Hearers and Bodhisattvas,
Should know that this wondrous Dharma Is the secret essence of all Buddhas.


To see a fully awakened person, a Buddha, is so rare that it is like seeing an udumbara flower. In the Tu Hieu Monastery in Hue, there is a scroll which says: "The udumbara flower, although fallen from the stem, is still fragrant." Just as the fragrance of the udumbara flower cannot be destroyed, our capacity for enlightenment is always present. The Buddha taught that everyone is a Buddha, everyone is an udumbara flower.

reply to post by Gaussq


concerning the message given in the letters to the seven churches, you missed the point completely

Originally posted by iamnot
reply to post by Gaussq

 

concerning the message given in the letters to the seven churches, you missed the point completely

Feel free to enlighten us about your view of the future of this world and where the seventh church is to be found?

This is the letter to the angel of the seventh church, the one that has a grip on your mind right now.

Rev 3:17Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

18I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see

19As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Do you really hear that last part there? He is specifically addressing all those that want to sit in God's throne. Those who want to be gods. Do you really want to be a god or is it not enough for you to be with God?


Matthew 23:12
And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

1 Peter 5:6
Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time

Do you really hear that last part there? He is specifically addressing all those that want to sit in God's throne. Those who want to be gods. Do you really want to be a god or is it not enough for you to be with God?

The objective of all self-cultivators is to become a God(at least reach to Arhat status). Why do you think you live here as a human being?


To go back to the place where you came from and be the God you were supposed to be until you did wrong and fell down to this maze to see if you could wake up and climb back. Suffer, transform yourself, be righteous, be compassionate, truthful, tolerant, let go of things, endure etc etc.

How big is the cosmos? Beyond human description and there is a place where you came from up there too.

Jesus was born as a human being, be it with very good inborn quality, so he could cultivate up very fast to Godhood. Everyone starts out as a normal human being, your original status decides how fast you can cultivate up.