The American "Hero"

reply to post by Jenna

It's no damn wonder half the world thinks Americans are morons when people who claim to be from here don't even have the common sense necessary to research for themselves whether their claims are correct. The information is literally available at your finger tips if you'd just look for it, yet no one seems capable of typing into the proper box and clicking that little search button.

See, here's the thing though (and I do fully support your statement) but people have selective knowledge. Many do research what they want to claim as fact, only problem is, it's a one-sided skill. Many who do this will only research and eschew that which they WANT to believe and that which supports the side they've chosen. Throw in moral superiority complex and voila, you have threads like this one. It's become so common on ATS that there is at least one thread posted in this way, daily (usually more)...

reply to post by Brood


Wow...you truly believe that you are correct.

Ok.

I despise the very ground you walk on. BUT...you have the right to say this drivel.

reply to post by LadySkadi


That's not really research though. That's more along the lines of finding something to support your preconceived notions as opposed to real research where you read everything you can on the topic and then come to a conclusion based on all the evidence available. It's maddening really. I'm starting to suspect that these threads are started merely to farm stars and flags. Why else would we need 1000 threads started saying the exact same thing and based on the exact same false notions that have been disproved time and again?

The American "Hero".

Catchy title. Then you proceed to tear it down as though you actually knew what you were talking about...

American heroes. These men and women, most young enough to be my children, have willingly given up portions of their lives for a cause they believe in. Some gave it all up for that same cause. What was the cause, you ask? Each other. Their parents. Their children. Their friends. It wasn't for me, except perhaps in the most general sort of way. My brother. My sisters, all four of 'em. My uncles from both sides of my family. Most especially, though, my father. All served for varying lengths of time. My brother saw combat in Iraq. My youngest sister saw action against terrorists during a tour in the Med. in the '80's. Most of my uncles saw action during WW2, or Vietnam. My father? He saw combat during WW2, Korea, and Vietnam; was wounded during WW2 on a little island called Saipan. Almost thirty years of his life, he's now in his late eighties, were spent in the uniform's of first the United State Army Air Corp, later Army Air Force; then in the uniform of the United States Air Force in places as varied as Saigon, Tokyo, various island in the South Pacific, Hann, West Germany, and several other places. Every one of them with some sort of danger lurking...

Every single one of them volunteered, not for glory...not for praise... They did it, because they felt it was the right thing for them to do. Heroes do that.

That in my book, makes them heroes. Not because they may have killed, and several of them did, war being what it is...but because they cared.

If you were to ask them if they are/were heroes? They'd look at you like you were insane...then they'd tell you that they aren't heroes...they were just doing what they felt needed doing. Jobs that needed doing, but a job that cost my father some of his health, and a portion of his sanity...but he'd still say that it was something that he needed to do. Personally, I am in awe of these people, my family members not the least, for the courage, the fortitude, they've shown over the years.

These men and women are a breed apart, worthy of our respect and admiration. For what it's worth? They've got mine. Maunder on, and on, about the reasons all you want, but policy isn't set by these folk, it's set by the people we set in command over them. So, it comes down to us. Blame them for whatever reason seems best to you, but in the process? Save some for yourself.

We put them there. In the sands of Iraq. The jungles of Vietnam. The trenches of Verdun. ...and a thousand thousand other places. They, for the most part, went willingly for a myriad of reasons. Some noble, a few not. To protect family. To protect friends. To protect each other. Yet seldom, in spite of the pain that most suffer, to a greater or lesser extent, do they complain about that. They may fuss about the politics, but never the reasons they themselves went to war for.

American heroes? You betcha, they are.

reply to post by seagull


I know can't really give you one but here you go.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7ef741d6ec81.gif[/atsimg]

Well considering that there is not currently a draft , members of the armed forces are there under their own volition . If you do not agree with U.S foreign policy and yet continue to join the armed services ...... well what can i say .
It seems the military is the only option for a lot of `piss poor folks` with little or no job /education prospects .... its the sad reality of the situation . Its been a while since any young naive kid fought to protect America ...........plenty of other causes fought for though .

reply to post by UmbraSumus


I'd like to direct your attention to the last post on the second page where I showed claims that the troops are all poor and/or ignorant are woefully incorrect.

Originally posted by Jenna
reply to post by UmbraSumus

 

I'd like to direct your attention to the last post on the second page where I showed claims that the troops are all poor and/or ignorant are woefully incorrect.

I didn`t state that " the troops are all poor and/or ignorant " , just that it is the only viable option for many to get into college and find work after their stint is complete .

reply to post by UmbraSumus


Then what was this?

Originally posted by UmbraSumus
It seems the military is the only option for a lot of `piss poor folks` with little or no job /education prospects

Emphasis added. Most are middle-class/wealthy and are more educated than their civilian peers. Your claim is false.

Originally posted by Brood
I live in Canada; we are directly and fully adjacent to America, and more than 80% of our cities are located close to the American border. we have the largest governed land mass on the planet and we still have tons of natural resources -- how long will it be before our long-proclaimed brother invades us for what we need just as much as them?

I've had enough of this. Stop bashing the U.S. and its citizens. You're obviously doing it out of some anxiety that the U.S. will invade canada. No need to worry about that. All we need to do is tell canada to jump and they will automatically respond with "how high?".

The U.S. has perhaps made the same mistake Rome did when they switched from defensive to offensive wars, history will tell.

In the meantime, remember that the U.S. uses its all volunteer armed forces to also provide an umbrella which allows canada to spend its money on socialism and not defense.

So, if this knowledge doesn't help with your anxiety issues, you could also get in line at the clinic and try some of those free meds the U.S. defense umbrella allows your government to provide for you. Oh, and if you hadn't allowed your government to take away your gun rights, you might also suffer a little less anxiety.

Originally posted by Jenna
reply to post by UmbraSumus

 

Then what was this?

Originally posted by UmbraSumus
It seems the military is the only option for a lot of `piss poor folks` with little or no job /education prospects

Emphasis added. Most are middle-class/wealthy and are more educated than their civilian peers. Your claim is false.

edit on 11-9-2010 by Jenna because: Elaborated a bit

I was talking about the less well to do .......... about the limited options available to them .The middle-class/wealthy recruits , have a greater scope of options to choose from.

Originally posted by catwhoknows
reply to post by Brood

 

It take guts to be a soldier.

It takes even more guts to be a hero.

And it takes more guts still to stand, unarmed, in front of a soldier & say, "I will not fight you, but I will not comply with your orders either."
Ghandi was a true hero.

these are just poor kids from little cities and towns all across america who signed away their life for an eight thousand dollar enlistment bonus. you talk about them like dogs but they are our friends, brothers, sisters, mothers, and children. i don't agree with the war on terror, but you can't blame it on eighteen and nineteen year old kids who weren't even alive when all of these issues began to take root in the area of afghanistan and iraq. these are kids who are trying to get into college, or trying to support their young family, or maybe to get off of drugs, there are many reasons. call me mindless but i hate the government, they are habitual line steppers when it comes to violating our rights and lying to us. your anger is righteous, but it is misdirected. you should be angry at the people pulling the strings behind these wars and profiting from them while we get deeper and deeper into debt. don't blame their pawns who are unwittingly playing into the elites scheme.

reply to post by centurion1211


Correct Cent, very correct. The West has forgotten that Since WWII American/British Blood and Money has been spent to keep the Soviet Dogs, and now Terrirost Clowns out of your house's. These Fanataics want nothing more then to convert the world to Islam. And America (along with a handful of other Nations) Make sure you have the choice to choose What you want to be.

Brood, America Would never invade Candian and the last time our two swords crossed was in 1812. 200 Years ago. I think it is safe to say the war is over, and we will never take up arms against our brothers or cousins. Ameria Has never attacked an Ally. Yes our government is corrupt and has lost it way, but her people are still loyal and steadfast we remeber our friends, and our enemies. If any Western Nation is attacked, I can Gaurantee you the Stars and Stripes will be there in A Heart Beat.

reply to post by UmbraSumus


The facts state otherwise. That you continue to repeat your misguided claims shows you haven't actually researched what you're claiming. Here, I found the most recent version of the report I used as a source in my first post to the thread.

Based on an understanding of the limitations of any objective definition of quality, this report compares military volunteers to the civilian population on four demographic characteristics: household income, education level, racial and ethnic background, and regional origin. This report finds that:

[...]

2. Members of the all-volunteer military are significantly more likely to come from high-income neighborhoods than from low-income neighborhoods. Only 11 percent of enlisted recruits in 2007 came from the poorest one-fifth (quintile) of neighborhoods, while 25 percent came from the wealthiest quintile. These trends are even more pronounced in the Army Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) program, in which 40 percent of enrollees come from the wealthiest neighborhoods-a number that has increased substantially over the past four years.
3. American soldiers are more educated than their peers. A little more than 1 percent of enlisted personnel lack a high school degree, compared to 21 percent of men 18-24 years old, and 95 percent of officer accessions have at least a bachelor's degree.

Source

reply to post by 2weird2live2rare2die


See my response above. These aren't ignorant poor folk who are joining the military. They aren't signing their lives away just for an $8k enlistment bonus. They're educated and most come from middle-class/wealthy families. The rest of your post I pretty much agree with.

reply to post by Brood


These people fight and die and you sit on your ass. So in my book yes soldiers are heroic and brave.

www.arlingtoncemetery.net...

This is my friend, my brother, and a hero that was killed in his sleep in a mortar attack.

I was deployed to Iraq twice. I am very proud of my service. OP what happened to you to make you think of servicemen the way you do?

I don't call myself a hero. I enlisted, fought, and was wounded because I believe in the idea of America. I believe in freedom for everyone in the country, and my heart aches for the oppressed around the world.

Originally posted by 2weird2live2rare2die
these are just poor kids from little cities and towns all across america who signed away their life for an eight thousand dollar enlistment bonus. you talk about them like dogs but they are our friends, brothers, sisters, mothers, and children. i don't agree with the war on terror, but you can't blame it on eighteen and nineteen year old kids who weren't even alive when all of these issues began to take root in the area of afghanistan and iraq. these are kids who are trying to get into college, or trying to support their young family, or maybe to get off of drugs, there are many reasons. call me mindless but i hate the government, they are habitual line steppers when it comes to violating our rights and lying to us. your anger is righteous, but it is misdirected. you should be angry at the people pulling the strings behind these wars and profiting from them while we get deeper and deeper into debt. don't blame their pawns who are unwittingly playing into the elites scheme.

Exactly my thoughts!!!!!

I just wish people would question the mission. I'll ask again, if the US military ordered our soldiers to commit genocide, would you still consider them heroes because they were "just doing what their country needed them to do"?

Originally posted by starchild10
People who join the army aren't usually gifted with high intelligence.

Blacks are drug dealers. They steal cars, too.

Asians can't drive. Love cameras, tho.

Latinos are all illegal aliens.

I mean, if you're going to believe the stereotype that everyone in the Army is dumb, you might as well believe them all.

Yep, once again, posters on ATS are "denying ignorance."

Originally posted by rakkasansct
www.arlingtoncemetery.net...

This is my friend, my brother, and a hero that was killed in his sleep in a mortar attack.

I was deployed to Iraq twice. I am very proud of my service. OP what happened to you to make you think of servicemen the way you do?

I don't call myself a hero. I enlisted, fought, and was wounded because I believe in the idea of America. I believe in freedom for everyone in the country, and my heart aches for the oppressed around the world.

Love you avatar I collect ww2 patches. And I agree with everything you say.