The American "Hero"

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posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 05:32 PM
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I've seen many posts on this thread, praising soldiers who fought in the war in Iraq as if they are some sort of hero. First and foremost, let me just say that there was actually no excuse for this war at all. The only reason Iraq was to become a potential enemy was that they were supposedly "harboring weapons of mass destruction". Of course, no evidence of these claims was ever found, and this was stated publicly many times (unless of course, the American government was intelligent enough to keep the receipt when they sold them the weapons)... yet, the war began anyways. The American public showed little hesitation to invade a country that was in the Middle East (not that any of you actually knew that before the war started, because that is not in the U.S. and therefore it is not important :@@
because the Taliban (a meddling group of religious extremists NOT based in Iraq at all) is in the Middle East. The topic of the events of 911 and the war on Iraq are immensely different, yet the American public happily accepted them as related because George Bush talked about them as if they were.

It's funny that you should all refer to Nazis so negatively (not that I approve of the behavior of Nazis whatsoever); Americans are the most recent perpetrators of genocide from a developed country, in all of its definitions. America invaded a country to retaliate against the attacks on 911 -- by attacking a country who shared nothing in common with the attackers except for the fact that they are Middle-Eastern, a war waged solely on race -- so that the American public would have more faith in their protection. And honestly, it's not like America even cared about the genocide of the Nazis even though the rest of the developed world was on board; you had to wait until Japan made it your problem. When the war was over, America acted like they were the only reason the war was won, even though Vimy Ridge had already been taken and we already had full knowledge of the repetitive Blitzkrieg technique and had worked out ways to counter it. This is like someone who picked up the scraps of drywall and swept the floor after workers built a condominium telling all of their friends that they built the entire condo themselves. It is very rude to write-off all of the lives that were lost by other countries who were fighting in this war to COMBAT GENOCIDE, while America wants to take all the credit for it even though America only joined the war for VINDICATION.

In any fashion, soldiers from any of these unjust wars are still looked at as heroes; servants to their country. This is only true in the fact that they were preforming a service and it was paid for by the country. They were pawns in Satan's game of chess -- tools to slaughter the innocent. I know a man who lost his hand because he was volunteering at a soup kitchen and he slipped on a wet spot on the floor and his hand and forearm were munched into a meat grinder. People do not look at him as a hero, he is regarded as rather unintelligent for making such a mistake. This man expected no wage for the work he put in; he simply wanted to help people. He is not a hero, though. The heroes are the people who invade countries, kill children, piss on their corpses, and collect their wage at the end of it all. The real proclaimed heroes hide the realities of what they've done behind medals and pride; boasting about it as if they are some sort of saint. The real heroes don't run into burning buildings to save children, they are the ones that set the building a flame, smell the burning flesh and hear the children screaming, then shoot any of them that run out of the building in the head. Your real heroes are what the rest of the world sees as REAL terrorists, and THAT is why you get extreme retaliations like the events of 911,not because Bin Laden hates gay people, or any other sad excuse you want to make up to convince yourselves that it wasn't America's need to express it's self-proclaimed superiority to the rest of the world; you blind, complacent neanderthals. It is a very sad and selective world you all live in. I know you are all going to say "We don't make the decisions!" Then I ask you... does this idea of democracy that you force upon other countries actually work at all? How is working out for you folks?




posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 05:39 PM
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Phrases like "Support our troops", and "The American Hero", and "Hard-Working Americans" are pure jingoism.

I don't consider someone a hero automatically for being a soldier. To me, a hero is in the heart. If they honestly believe they're protecting my freedom, I salute them, though I feel bad that they are being duped. I even consider the Nazi soldiers heroes if their hearts were in the right place. If they are fully informed about what they are fighting for, I consider them a mercenary at best, and at worst a murderer.

edit on 10-9-2010 by 19872012 because: (no reason given)


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posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 06:00 PM
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They're heroes because they have the balls to stand up and protect your rights even after you insult them.

Without them you wouldn't have the right to rant as you do, so respect their sacrifices or shut up.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 06:04 PM
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reply to post by ~Vixen~
 


What rights? Iraq did not attack America. Neither did Afghanistan. If Osama was really the target, Special Forces should have been sent in to get him, not the entire army. I am sorry to say it, but soldiers in today's military are not defending anyone's freedoms. Except perhaps the corporatocracy


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posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 06:07 PM
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reply to post by Brood
 


So you signed up today, Just to bash US Soldiers? That make you a hero? Hell no, Like guy you think the war in Iraq is wrong? That is your buisness, but to go after people who are doing the Job there Government (and its people) sent them to do is cowardly. Do you go down to McDonalds and heckle them because the serve fatty foods? Do you go to walmart and Heckle them because they import from China and Not uS companies No you dont, And I bet you wouldnt have the courage to say this to a Soldiers face either.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by Brood
 


So you signed up today, Just to bash US Soldiers? That make you a hero? Hell no, Like guy you think the war in Iraq is wrong? That is your buisness, but to go after people who are doing the Job there Government (and its people) sent them to do is cowardly. Do you go down to McDonalds and heckle them because the serve fatty foods? Do you go to walmart and Heckle them because they import from China and Not uS companies No you dont, And I bet you wouldnt have the courage to say this to a Soldiers face either.


I don't think he's bashing the soldiers, I think he's bashing the missions. Which are NOT to protect the freedom of Americans, but to make a few people more money.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by Brood
 

Yes a hero what is a hero its just a point of view if an extremist walks in to a theater and blows his self and others up is he not view as a hero by his won or is he evil. like I said a hero is just a point of view.

As a combat vet I have seen good and bad in all humans


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posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 06:26 PM
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Originally posted by InvisibleAlbatross
reply to post by ~Vixen~
 


What rights? Iraq did not attack America. Neither did Afghanistan. If Osama was really the target, Special Forces should have been sent in to get him, not the entire army. I am sorry to say it, but soldiers in today's military are not defending anyone's freedoms. Except perhaps the corporatocracy


If you have problems with current middle eastern policies, why have you chosen to belittle the soldier "pawns" rather than hold accountable the real problem... the politicians that make the policies that send them there.

We may not all agree on current foreign policy, and in fact I'm VERY much opposed to the current middle eastern fiasco, however I'd never consider belittling someone for their sacrifices simply to satisfy my "right" to rage. If you want to address the issue, write your representatives in Washington and get in their faces, not in the faces of soldiers repeatedly called to fight as part of a jacked up political agenda.

Finally, I'm very insulted by the lack of common courtesy for the men and people serving in our armed forces. In essence, according to the above posts, anyone who has served is less than honorable. As a US military veteran, wife of a veteran, mother of a veteran, sister of veterans, daughter of a veteran, and grand daughter of veterans, I take great offense to the insinuations that we're all scumbags for standing up and serving our country.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 06:27 PM
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I'm sure you and your family are wonderful people and I thank you for what's in your heart, but do you ever ask, "Am I serving my country - or am I serving something else?" Just food for thought.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 06:44 PM
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Originally posted by 19872012

I'm sure you and your family are wonderful people and I thank you for what's in your heart, but do you ever ask, "Am I serving my country - or am I serving something else?" Just food for thought.


* My son is currently deployed;

* My husband and I both served during Desert Shield/Desert Storm/Bosnia;

* One brother served during Desert Shield, and was involuntarily recalled for "Operation Iraqi Freedom;"

* One brother served during "peacetime;"

* My father served two tours in Vietnam;

* My paternal grandfather fought in World War II and Korea;

* My maternal grandfather fought in World War II;

* My great grandfather served during World War I;

Many/most of these conflict were BS, however nobodys sacrifices should be trivialized simply for the sake of political statement against wars that we had/have no control over. Again, if you have problems with our country's current military involvements, take it to the idiots in Washington who maintain control over the situation.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 06:52 PM
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Just asking a philosophical question here - if the United States was run by Nazis, would you still support our armed forces, just because they're Americans and we should support America? Even if they were going to war for the distinct mission of committing genocide?



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 07:10 PM
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We're not talking about supporting American troops here, we're talking about simply treating them as something other than sub-human for making sacrifices for their country.

Put aside your political hatred and understand that soldiers are not the root of the problem, it's the politicians.

As previously stated, I don't support the current political policies of this nation, however what would you have me do, hate my son because he's forced to follow the screwed policies of politicians?



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 07:10 PM
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edit on 9/10/2010 by ~Vixen~ because: duplicate post



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 07:48 PM
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The ones needing bashing are our politicians, their policies, and their personal agendas. Soldiers are TOLD what to do and via the US Constitution they are required to listen to these "leaders"

Although soldiers via the US Constitution have the ability to deny an unlawful or unConstitutional order. As soldiers they have a duty and responsibility to be educated they also trust their leaders. Unfortunately the leaders take advantage of this.

I wont argue that there are not bad soldiers, but you cant write them all off on the notion of a few bad eggs.

You're confronting the employee over policy when you should be confronting the manager.


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posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 09:39 PM
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reply to post by ~Vixen~
 


~Vixen~, I admire your spunk, and respect your outrage, I really do, but it's best to let it go.

Speaking only for myself, the things I've done I never did for these folks any how. They are just unintentional beneficiaries. What I did I didn't do for king or country, or any flag either, for that matter. I did it for my folks - my parents, my sisters, my brother, my wife, my son, my friends.The folks I did it for accept or reject me for who I am, not what I've done. I most certainly didn't do it for these nameless, faceless folk hiding behind an internet connection sniping at me and mine.

They revile those who go when the call comes, and yet most, nearly ALL of them are cowards... cowards who hide behind a 'net connection spewing vitriol, hiding cowardice behind a thin veneer of respectability, and an air of superiority supported in their own minds by trite words and phrases like "jingoism", "brainwashed", "corpratocracy", "fighting for oil", the list of their catch phrases is nearly endless, but the common factor in ALL of those terms as they apply them is that they use them as a smoke screen to mask the fact that when the call came, they hid under the bed rather than do what had to be done, and put their "one and only body between loved ones and war's desolation".

They failed the test, and would prefer to hide that fact behind an assumed superiority that exists only in their own minds, and in the minds of others like them, who ALSO failed the test.

No, I didn't do it for them, and couldn't care less what they think of me. Since when did their opinion count on things they have no understanding of, nor comprehension for?

NO, let it go.Let them hide under the bed, or come out into a safe zone to spew their venom - a safe zone provided by the efforts of their superiors. They know that, too. If you think not, just watch the howls that they let loose after reading this.

Howl away, kids. I don't give a damn.

Nah, let it go, ~Vixen~. There's far more to life than convincing a sow's ear that it's NOT a silk purse. It already knows that deep down where it counts. Otherwise, they wouldn't feel the need to claim a superiority that they will never know.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 10:00 PM
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They don't get to pick their destination. They are told where to go. True they could defy an unlawful order, but then you have to ask who gets to determine whether it really is unlawful. Many of you act as if it is so easy to decide whether or not a Presidential order is unlawful or not. For God sakes, the President is the commander in chief.

But I really wish the op would see it from a troop's point of view. Once a troop is in the battle field it is no longer about the USA. Although that still mat be in the back of their mind. It is about survival.

Survival of oneself and the men and women who are fighting alongside them. It is a 24 hour job of watching out for each so that everyone can come back safely and reunite with their family. It is not about killing every person in sight. It is about getting the job done so one may come back home in one piece. Of course, many of you will never know that feeling because you have never been in that situation. You have never had to wonder if this will be your last meal, worry about getting ambushed, worry about losing your best friend, worry about being maimed, worried about whether you will ever see your love again among many million other things that run rampantly through ones mind while they are on a battlefield.

Instead many of you take the negatives of the war and try to crucify all the troops for the acts of a few. Anyway, I am sure nothing I say is going to change your opinion, so I will just end with this.

To many of you, they may not be heroes. But to me, those troops who have done their job morally in Iraq and Afghanistan will always be considered heroes. Not so much for what they have done in the interest of the US, but more so for the fact that they have looked after each other throughout their tour of combat. Unfortunately and sadly, many of them never made it back home alive and I am sure that those that did survive will forever lament the ones they lost..

Heroes para siempre


edit on 10-9-2010 by jam321 because: go figure



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 10:03 PM
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This guy (The OP) thinks we call people heroes for putting on a uniform and following orders.

Think again, kid.

A hero defends himself and his comrades. He fights because he doesn't want to let people down who are depending on him.

He risks his life to save the guy next to him. Not a flag, or anything abstract.

These guys are heroes. Make no mistake.

I think you need to grow up some, before you start passing judgement on people.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 10:24 PM
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reply to post by poedxsoldiervet
 


I hear ya bro.




I won't bother speaking for myself.
My son doesn't consider himself a hero, Just a soldier that did his job when asked.



SLAYER-jr Iraq 2009/10








edit on 10-9-2010 by SLAYER69 because: I wasnt finished mashing the keyboard with my big fat hair knuckles!



posted on Sep, 11 2010 @ 01:11 AM
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Originally posted by ~Vixen~
They're heroes because they have the balls to stand up and protect your rights even after you insult them.

Without them you wouldn't have the right to rant as you do, so respect their sacrifices or shut up.

It's a shame that I even bothered to bring up serious problems that people cannot accept because it "offends people", even though it is not my intention to offend anyone in any way.

First of all, this thread was not made to promote some sort of "hatred" of American soldiers, it is not a rant. Although, it is my "belief" that soldiers in the American military sell out their otherwise normal moral behaviour for a regular salary, I don't hold American soldiers responsible for the absolutely injust decisions that depict the image of the United States to the world. Your response to this is typical, promptly telling em to shut up as they would do to you in the military if you asked any questions about their commands. Youy are trained not to question orders; it as a chargeable offense, and I don't think you're ever going to justify the war in Iraq to any other culture in the world other than American. America is impeding on serious boundaries here and its not against anyone's ethics that it erupt into, god forbid, conversation. This thread is here to promote healthy discussion about why American soldiers are referred to as heroes, while people who are actually contributing to society instead of breaking others' apart, we couldn't care less about that.

It's also subtly implying that the American government uses fear and ignorance to try to control the people. You have one of the highest percentages of citizen-to-military ratio in the world... you also have the highest military advertisement budget and the most well known military slogans and symbol of the "hero". In school, you have the lowest amount of required curriculum based on world studies than any other developed country in the world. For a while now, America has just been trolling around the middle East fighting "terrorists" in locations that coincidentally have an extremely high amount of natural resources that the United States has been working to conserve. Get some f___ing perspective, think about how the rest of the world feels when this activity is happening around them. Now America is spreading global fear, is this also an attempt to control a whole new horizon? This is beginning to sound a lot like pre-holocaust Germany (Also curious how close it is getting to 2012, and we all know who is REALLY "harbouring weapons of mass destruction").

Anyways, this forum was created to support discussion about possible conspiracies exactly like this. I'm talking about SERIOUS ISSUES that involve the ENTIRE PLANET here and I would appreciate it if you would not write them off with the consideration of someone's feelings about their career path (which clearly kills people and creates more harm than good), and their family, as this exact topic is pretty much exactly what ATS is for. If you aren't mature enough to handle that, I suggest you leave, because saying "they fight to protect our freedoms [today]", which I see as another form of generic military advertisement and corporatocratic brainwashing, and if you can't back it up with facts it holds no weight here since my argument has several facts that complete a full and complete point. Besides, telling someone to shut up about the subject certainly isn't going to deter me from the idea that there is some sort of conspiracy going on, and quite frankly it is just juvenile (not to mention sad that so many people share this potential sociopolitical brainwashing that has direct ties to activity mid-century Germany).

Also, we all know militant soldiers have balls, we all know of them slapping them in the face of Middle Eastern people while saying "Suck on freedom, SandN****rs!" That's an American hero -- global enemy.


Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by Brood
 


So you signed up today, Just to bash US Soldiers? That make you a hero? Hell no, Like guy you think the war in Iraq is wrong? That is your buisness, but to go after people who are doing the Job there Government (and its people) sent them to do is cowardly. Do you go down to McDonalds and heckle them because the serve fatty foods? Do you go to walmart and Heckle them because they import from China and Not uS companies No you dont, And I bet you wouldnt have the courage to say this to a Soldiers face either.


I did not sign up today. I'm beginning a thread, I need 20 posts to do so.

I never called myself a hero. I'm saying heroes -- in other countries -- are defined much differently than than the United States government wants

The war in Iraq is absolutely wrong according to 6 Billion people, if not more. No country wants to be invaded and forced to accept other people's ideas on government, and the fact is, America's is doing just that (not that democracy is exactly working for America either, the veiws of the people are clearly not expressed though the actions of the government, which is what democracy is all about), much like the Nazis did, and It's a serious issue to the rest of the world, it's a shame you are pretty much all so blind about it. America is manipulating entire civilizations with the instillation of fear, and killing people to support its economy and expand its dominion and resources.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Overall I think it's pretty sad how much political correctness has managed to brainwash everyone into thinking that a soldier's feelings (as a "hero" to the public) are somehow more important than the reality that America is turning itself into a global criminal that promotes and funds the use of weapons and force to create fear; fear as a form of control.

Is this kind of activity was happening fifty, even fourty years ago, would this not stir a rebellion in the general public? Why have we all of the sudden become so accepting of obvious genocide that is being enforced by our own country? Just trying to put things into perspective, here. Arguments are absolutely welcome provided they are arguments based on FACTS, in ATS spirit.


edit on 11-9-2010 by Brood because: sigh..



posted on Sep, 11 2010 @ 01:20 AM
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Originally posted by ~Vixen~
They're heroes because they have the balls to stand up and protect your rights even after you insult them.

Without them you wouldn't have the right to rant as you do, so respect their sacrifices or shut up.


LOL, so, you are saying that we all have rights?

what rights do you have, can you please say to me?

not a lot huh? did it improve after the war? no ....





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