meat = shorter life

I have a question that maybe someone can help me out with -

I read, in Smithsonian magazine, an article about 'evolution' - and there is a theory that "we" "came from" the people who fished, learned agriculture, and ate veges while the other people, Neanderthals? maybe - the meat hunting people - died out.

I have tried on numerous occasions to find this article on their website - I just read it in their magazine apx 3 or 4 months ago - I can't find it now.

Can someone else find it? I might be using the wrong keywords.

I myself am (mostly) vegetarian - I do eat fish, I do take milk in the coffee and a bit of cheese on the salad, but I do not eat red meat usually. Once in a great while I will. (And it makes me feel kind of ill. Or "packed". Can't describe it but it does not really agree with me.) I do like ice cream too But don't eat it too much. Does not agree. And if I eat it before bed I get wicked nightmares.

I went to this diet after seeing so many of my relatives have numerous stomach and intestinal surgeries. Some had to have surgery on top of surgery and surgery to correct the old surgery / adhesions.

And gut surgery is not something you want. Ain't like getting your arm stitched up. It takes a long time to heal up and often things don't work out.

You see someone get 9 feet of their intestines removed and put on an extremely limited diet for the rest of their life - and have to take fiber things and laxatives for the rest of their life - yeah - that'll make you alter your diet real quick.

I know this woman - she's had 5 or 6 stomach and intestinal operations, nothing is working, she's got diverticulitis - that's an old person's disease - she's 36.

Yeah. I'm eating healthy. Red meat and heavy foods are not too good for the intestines. It lays in there.

I'm not a fanatic about vegetarianism though - my guess is that is probably OK to eat small amounts of red meat as long as you balance it with plenty of vegetables, good grains, and water/liquids.

From what I have observed of people - if you live on "meat and potatos" - yeah - you're basically going to seize up your guts.

Someone find that Smithsonian article - it had to do with evolution - but a main point of it was something about diet. I will try to find it again too.

reply to post by Ong Bak


Are smokers going to stop smoking the larger the warning label on the pack? NO.

bull = sh*t

Many members of my family have lived to 100+, and all ate meat at every meal.

reply to post by Son of Will


In all honesty the way ppl eat or live their lives health-wise is up to themselves
if you choose to be a vegan thats your decision it should not allow anyone to look at you less than themselves and also vice versa
at the end of the day you can stress its an important issue but the only thing it will achieve is nothing really
fast food is a major part in everyones life in this day and age its quick its simple especially to feed a family after a hard days work or grab a quick snack whilst on a break at work
besides some fastfood have salads and things such as vegie burgers so that should keep both sides happy should it not
fact is you need to sit back have a few shots of wheatgrass and live and let live

reply to post by Xiamara

I tried an all vegetarian diet, I ended up becoming severely anemic, its all dependent on your body chemistry. I am some one who has a very hard time absorbing and processing iron and many other vitamins and minerals. I am a person who requires meat at least every day, or else I pass out and become ill. So much so that I cannot leave my own bed. Pushing the vegetarian diet on people who genetically require meat is cruel. Not everyone needs meat but there are people who do. People like myself, who cannot handle supplements. Before any of you vegans and vegetarians rip into me, 1) I have tried the vegetarian diet 2 years of hell and damage to my body is what I got 2) I have a lot of allergies to metals which are in trace amounts in certain supplement pills 3) I cannot tolerate high amount of certain minerals and vitamins, normal for average is too much for me. 4) I love meat

If you have an iron deficiency, you can eat meat until it comes out of your ears- the problem is that your body is not absorbing the iron it's taking in. This means, you are lacking a vitamin that helps with absorption. I know this because I had the same problem.

I googled- 'foods rich in Iron'- This is what I got.

# Iron in best absorbed in the presence of Vitamin c (ascorbic acid) # Include foods rich in vitamin include (oranges, grapefruit, guavas, tomatoes, citrus fruit, pawpaw, kiwi fruit, fresh vegetables and salads and other fruit) at each meal
# Avoid drinking tea, coffee, hot chocolate and caffeine containing cooldrinks, (colas) with meals as it decreases the amount of iron that the body can absorb.
# Avoid taking antacids as it will also decrease iron absorption
# Avoid drinking excessive milk with meals
# Improve food choices to increase amount of dietary iron

www.kznhealth.gov.za...

Now, to compare the amount of iron in meants vs vegetables and non meat products- This should be fun!

Have a look at this- I will paste here for convenience sake-

Miligrams of iron per 100 g food *food portion containing 1 mg of iron

chicken/beef liver 8.8......................*10 grams
cooked beef 5.5......................*15 grams
cooked turkey meat 4.8......................*20 grams
sardines 4.0......................*25 grams
tuna fish in oil 1.2......................*1/2 can
cooked chicken 0.8......................*1 drumstick/leg or 1/8 of the chicken

Miligrams of iron per 100 g food *food portion containing 1 mg of iron

pure tehina/tehini 9.0..............................*2 teaspoons
sesame halva 6.0.............................. *15 grams
tehina sald or prepared tehini 4.9...............................*2 tablespoons
oat flakes 4.5...............................*2 tablespoons (before cooking)
almonds 4.4...............................*15 pieces
dried figs 4.0...............................*2 pieces
cooked spinach 3.5...............................*1/ cup
humous 2.6...............................*3 tablespoons
cooked garbanzo beans 2.4...............................*1/4 cup
cooked dry beans 2.3...............................*1/4 cup
cooked lentils 2.2...............................*1/3 cup
dried dates 1.7...............................*4 dates
brown bread 1.7...............................*2 slices
cooked green peas 1.4..............................*1/2 cup
cooked potato 1.4..............................*1/2 potato

Daily allowance for Males over age 19 - 10 mg
Females ages 11 to 50 - 18 mg
Source: www.loveyourbaby.com...

That pretty much sums it up, I think. I hate the Iron excuse people regurgitate instead of just saying..."Hey, I cant stop eating meat, I eat it purely because I like it- and I know it's bad for my health- So what."

reply to post by Tripple_Helix


Sorry, I missed the part in your post where you went from "Iron deficiency is caused by an uptake inability" to "meat is bad for you"



I've yet to see the metabolic effects caused by meat, in this thread, that would cause any of the chronic diseases we see ruining our lives today. NONE.

Originally posted by weemadmental
what a lot of nonsense this is, all you need to know is that the teeth in your mouth have evolved to allow us to eat both meat and veg, there are lots of different factors in life that stop us from reaching old age. if you look at vegans and vegetarians you will see that they need to consume extra vitamins and minerals not found in plants to stay healthy, if they dont they dont have a long life, you just have to take things in moderation

Wee Mad

Meat pretty much clogs the system over a long period of time.. Nature has everything we need and much, much more. Vegans dont have to eat extra pills to have a long life, in fact, thinking that eating all that bull# (vitamin/mineral pills, protein powder, etcetc) will make you a healthier person is pretty sad. All the vitamins, minerals, proteins, fats that come on those pills/powders/whatnot are from NATURE. Its just sold in the form of pills etc. because they cant patent a plant and sell it. Anything that comes from a lab, doesnt belong in your body.. thats pretty much how I think. Anyways, i dont know if vegans eat lots of extra # to "keep healthy", but those who do are just "fake" vegans who really dont understand why they are vegans.. probably to "protect the cute animals." Just eat the right plants and herbs and youll be good to go.

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


Well, fyi I was replying to someone who said they have to eat meat because they have an iron deficiency......

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by Gazrok
I'm all for folks who want to be vegans or vegetarians, etc., but there's no need for them to push it on me. Life is about choices, and those choices just don't appeal to me.

What about the choice of the animal?
Do they have one or we shouldn't care?

I gave you a star for pity.

What choice does a tiger give to the furry little morsels that it eats, including humans???

Eat what you like, you don't have to justify it. Just don't worry about what anyone else eats.

oh btw on a side note i give you this thought if the insurance companies want to cut money and charge more they can easily can. Evidence is growing that meat causes all sorts of aliments and its only a matter of time before the insurance companies will start charging you more if you eat meat and less if you do not. For the simple reason of costs in later life. Why should insurance companies pay your hospital fees when you knowingly been contaminating your body with carcinogenic compounds? If you dont think it will happen think again as the insurers are always looking for ways not to pay you any money

Vegetarianism can lower Insurance

Originally posted by loner007
oh btw on a side note i give you this thought if the insurance companies want to cut money and charge more they can easily can. Evidence is growing that meat causes all sorts of aliments and its only a matter of time before the insurance companies will start charging you more if you eat meat and less if you do not. For the simple reason of costs in later life. Why should insurance companies pay your hospital fees when you knowingly been contaminating your body with carcinogenic compounds? If you dont think it will happen think again as the insurers are always looking for ways not to pay you any money

Vegetarianism can lower Insurance

I love how Vegans take the 1st world country luxury that is veganism and try to warp science and human development around to fit this lifestyle.
Seriously, if you're going to argue in it's favor, you're much better off sticking to the moral debate.

Vegetarian John McArdle (Anatomist & Primatologist, executive director of the Alternatives Research and Development Foundation) over the concept that humans are somehow vegetarian.

We obviously are not carnivores, but we are equally obviously not strict vegetarians, if you carefully examine the anatomical, physiological and fossil evidence ... [the idea that we are vegetarian] no scientific basis in fact.

Stephen Byrnes, Ph.D., N.D., the author of Diet & Heart Disease and Digestion Made Simple
Source
Myth: Meat-eating causes osteoporosis, kidney disease, heart disease, and cancer.

This claim does not reconcile with the facts of history and anthropological research. All of the diseases mentioned have occurred primarily in the twentieth century, whereas people - and long-lived people at that - have been eating meat and animal fat for thousands of years! The truth is that recent studies demonstrate that vegan and vegetarian diets predispose women to osteoporosis.

As for kidney disease, meat contains complex proteins and vitamin D, both of which help maintain pH balance in the bloodstream. Meats (...) such as beef, fish, and lamb, are good sources of magnesium and B6, which help limit the risk of kidney stones.

Nothing in nutritional science supports the claim that eating meat causes cardiovascular problems. The French eat large amounts of meat and enjoy low rates of heart disease, and the same is true in Greece. The claim that eating meat causes cancer is based on a flawed study by Dr. Ernst Wynder in the 1970s who said there was a link between animal fat intake and colon cancer. The "animal fats" turned out to be vegetable fats. Historically, studies of meat-eating peoples - including the people of the Bible - show they had very little incidence of cancer.

Myth: Saturated fats and dietray cholesterol cause heart disease, atherosclerosis, and/or cancer - and low-fat, low-cholesterol diets are healthier for people.

his claim rooted in the flawed "liquid lipids" hypothesis has been used to promote vegetarianism as the best insurance against heart disease. The theory that saturated fats and cholesterol clog arteries has been effectively disproved by a number of highly respected scientists from many nations. Studies have shown that "arterial plague is primarily composed of unsaturated fats, particularly polyunsaturated ones, and not the saturated fats of animals, palm or coconut." The real culprit is "trans-fatty acids in such supposedly "healthy" foods as margarine, vegetable shortening, and foods made with them. A Swedish study confirmed previous findings linking vegetable oil intake with higher breast cancer rates.

The Framington Heart Study, often cited as "proof" of this myth, actually found that the residents of Framington, Massachussetts, who ate more saturated fats, cholesterol, and calories had the lowest serum cholesterol levels! Vegetarian diets do not protect against heart disease or atherosclerosis. Recent studies have shown vegetarians to have higher homocysteine levels in their blood. (Homocysteine is a known cause of heart disease.)

Myth: Vegetarians live longer and have more energy and endurance than meat-eaters.

One English vegetarian guidebook claimed that vegetarians "can expect to live nine years longer than meat-eaters." A witty commentator called this fictitious life expansion, "indulging in a bit of wishful thinking." A massive study of heart disease by Russell Smith, Ph.D., showed that death rates actually decreased as animal product consumption increased among some study groups! The longest-lived peoples on earth have all been meat-eaters, and the anthropological datafrom primitive societies do not support the contention that vegetarians live longer than meat-eaters.

Myth: The human body is not designed for meat consumption.

Human physiology clearly refutes this false claim. The stomach's production of hydrochloric acid is unique to meat-eaters - it activates protein-splitting enzymes (and it is something not found in herbivores). Then there is the human pancreas, which produces a full range of digestive enzymes for handling both animal and vegetable foods. Our very physiology (and dental structure) demonstrates we are "mixed feeders" or omnivores.

Myth: Animal products contain numerous, harmful toxins.

Dr. Byrnes comments, "If meat, fish, and eggs do indeed generate cancerous 'ptyloamines,' it is very strange that people have not been dying in droves from cancer for the past thousand years." ... Commercially raised or farmed meat and animal sources may have some harmful contaminants in them (as do commercially farmed plant foods), but this can be avoided by consuming range-fed, organic meats, eggs, and dairy products largely free of man-made chemical toxins.

Gotta love PETA and their William C. Roberts talking points though.

Originally posted by Whiffer Nippets
I have a question that maybe someone can help me out with -

Can someone else find it?

Sorry no.

But I've found the idea intriguing. If your ancestors were vegetatians, maybe you should be aswell - if your ancestors were farming omnivores, maybe you should eat carrots, weeds and beef aswell. If your ancencestors were fishermen, maybe then fish might be good for you.

I mean, I do think that we inherit properties from our family lineage, and if they were used to certain type of food, maybe those types are good for me as well.

But my stomach is iron - I seem to be able to eat almost anything. Today I got a chance to make some clinical tests on me, which told me I was in perfect condition internally. I eat basically food that I could imagine farming people did. Most my of my family lineage has been farmers more or less.

-v

reply to post by xEphon


if u had bothered to read any of my posts i made you would have found that I had said Humans are physiologically frugivours herbivours and insectivours. W are not designed to eat meat PERIOD.

Originally posted by loner007
reply to post by xEphon

 

if u had bothered to read any of my posts i made you would have found that I had said Humans are physiologically frugivours herbivours and insectivours. W are not designed to eat meat PERIOD.

Yet entirely through our history and prehistory, we do eat meat and have eaten meat. Weird. Someone should have let the cavemen in on the secret, so they could have went with that whole design.

Kind of flies in the face of the 'W are not designed to eat meat PERIOD.' statement.

Originally posted by loner007
reply to post by xEphon

 

if u had bothered to read any of my posts i made you would have found that I had said Humans are physiologically frugivours herbivours and insectivours. W are not designed to eat meat PERIOD.

And if you bothered to stop regurgitating the same old William C. Roberts fallacy, or read my above post, you would see that this is not true. But I'll repost for good measure.

Myth: The human body is not designed for meat consumption.

Human physiology clearly refutes this false claim. The stomach's production of hydrochloric acid is unique to meat-eaters - it activates protein-splitting enzymes (and it is something not found in herbivores). Then there is the human pancreas, which produces a full range of digestive enzymes for handling both animal and vegetable foods. Our very physiology (and dental structure) demonstrates we are "mixed feeders" or omnivores.

Humans were not designed to breathe under water.
Humans were not designed to flap our hands and fly.
Humans were not designed to burrow in the ground.

But guess what? If at any point during our evolution we develop gills, wings, or claws, which enable us to do any of the above, our "design" has thereby changed.

The mere fact that you can sit there and type is the direct result of meat eating anscestors. To say we're not designed to do so is intellectually dishonest if not a blatant lie.

Originally posted by Son of Will
reply to post by Ong Bak

 

Yeah, you're referring to The China Study. It's one of the most underrated, and underreported stories of the 20th century. I've read the book several times now, and all the critical reviews - I can definitely say that it is 100% legitimate!

I urge everybody to try going 1 month without eating any meat or dairy. Yes that means ice cream and cheese and milk and yogurt etc. But when you think about it, do you really want to be eating foods derived from the breast milk of a dirty cow that's been (in most cases) injected with potent genetically-engineered hormones which make them sick and cause their livers to expand to almost twice their original size (not good). So then they are pumped full of antibiotics to counter the sickening effects from these GMO hormones. The result is milk that is in some cases up to 20% puss and bacterial discharge.

However I must stress that the study above did NOT include any hormone-laden meats or milk. It was all free-range in the remote provinces of China, where dietary practices and lifestyle have gone almost entirely unchanged for many generations. This means that even organic meat and dairy will still lead to increased chances of a wide range of cancers and chronic illnesses.

It really changed my life, to be honest... I have been ridden with so many physiological problems my entire life, and ever since I went vegan 3 years ago, they've ALL cleared up entirely. Even my thinking seems more clear. My metabolism is now very high, and I couldn't get fat if I tried. My body odor is noticeably lower, my libido has never been better, acid reflux is a distant memory (meat and dairy acidify your blood pH, veggies and fruits tend to make it more alkaline - a health benefit with lots of documentation behind it), IBS = gone, appetite increased, skin complexion is better, and I never ever get sick. Besides the others I've forgotten to list, there's one other that I won't mention here =)

so that's a personal anecdote, for what it's worth. I should note that at the same time I became vegan, I also went cold turkey on drinking soda and all products containing high fructose corn syrup. But I never consumed very much of either of those so the physiological changes I think are mostly attributable to going vegan.

I tried going for a few weeks without eating red meat, then chicken. That was over 10 years ago. I never set out to stop eating animal based foods because of any set belief system i had. I just wanted to try whatever i could to become a bit more healthy. I can tell you that it has not only made me feel better in my every day physical routine but mentally as well. In fact my overall life has become more positive. Now this is just what has worked for me, im not saying anyone should follow in my footsteps, im just saying cutting out animal consumption has been a very positive thing for me.

reply to post by xEphon


Stop throwing in useless drivel. I already said human acid is 20 times weaker than that of cats dogs and bears.
# Meat-eaters: have strong hydrochloric acid in stomach to digest meat
# Herbivores: have stomach acid that is 20 times weaker than that of a meat-eater
# Humans: have stomach acid that is 20 times weaker than that of a meat-eater

SO AGAIN you havve posted nothing but more lies

A carnivore's stomach secretes powerful digestive enzymes with about 10 times the amount of hydrochloric acid than a human or herbivore. The pH is less than or equal to "1" with food in the stomach, for a carnivore or omnivore. For humans or other herbivores, the pH ranges from 4 to 5 with food in the stomach. Hence, man must prepare his meats with laborious cooking or frying methods. E. Coli bacteria, salmonella, campylobacter, trichina worms [parasites] or other pathogens would not survive in the stomach of a lion.

Originally posted by loner007
reply to post by xEphon

 

Stop throwing in useless drivel. I already said human acid is 20 times weaker than that of cats dogs and bears.
# Meat-eaters: have strong hydrochloric acid in stomach to digest meat
# Herbivores: have stomach acid that is 20 times weaker than that of a meat-eater
# Humans: have stomach acid that is 20 times weaker than that of a meat-eater

SO AGAIN you havve posted nothing but more lies

A carnivore's stomach secretes powerful digestive enzymes with about 10 times the amount of hydrochloric acid than a human or herbivore. The pH is less than or equal to "1" with food in the stomach, for a carnivore or omnivore. For humans or other herbivores, the pH ranges from 4 to 5 with food in the stomach. Hence, man must prepare his meats with laborious cooking or frying methods. E. Coli bacteria, salmonella, campylobacter, trichina worms [parasites] or other pathogens would not survive in the stomach of a lion.

edit on 10/9/2010 by loner007 because: (no reason given)

Useless drivel? Do you even check on the supposed facts you throw around? Where on earth did you determine the pH level of the human stomach is 4-5? No wonder you're so mis informed.

pH level of the digesting stomach is 2. Right about what it should be for an Omnivore.
Clinton EDU

HCl

Hydrochloric acid (HCl) converts pepsinogen to pepsin which breaks down proteins to peptides. HCl maintains a pH in the stomach of approximately 2.0.

It also dissolves food and kills microorganisms.

uc.edu

the stomach is a J-shaped, expandable sack, normally on the left side of the upper abdomen. Several muscle layers surround the stomach, serving to churn food. The stomach can expand to hold about 2 L of food (= 1/2 gal). The stomach contains hydrochloric acid (HCl) strong enough to dissolve metal (pH about 1.5 to 3, usually around 2

Berkeley

Stomach

Functions:

1. store food
2. initiate digestion of proteins
3. kill bacteria with the strong acidity (low pH of the gastric juice)
pH of gastric juice is 2. The low pH of gastric juice:

I guess Berkeley is the home of useless drivel as well.

reply to post by xEphon
That's why I asked him for some kind of reference for his acid statement before.

He says, but he doesn't cite. I looked in vain for actual HCl acid levels (not Ph) for carnivores. Human gastric acid averages .5% (5000 ppm).

Herbivores have adapted to the Carnivore throughout history.... from bony plates(stegosaurus), to the eye spots on butterflies and now disinformation on ATS...... to me it boils down to this live a longer miserable life(veggie) or a shorter fulfilling life(Carnie).......general rules of health are ridiculous.... steak or Alfalfa ? cmon really?