Don't Really,
I have actually looked into the effects of sacrifice and group killing and I do know where you are going with it. I do not believe that Crowley would condone murder. Murder goes against the true will of another. As far as the Zohar and masturbation it was the Taoist who originally spoke of semen not being wasted. Hence the taoist arts of retension to keep from ejaculation. The semen stays in the body rejuvenating it instead of spilling out and depleting vitae and kidney essence. The picture I grabbed from google images as I wanted something to represent AN SPH AR and I thought that did a lovely job of showing the "Sword" and serpent travelling through.

Originally posted by ANSPHAR
Don't Really,
I have actually looked into the effects of sacrifice and group killing and I do know where you are going with it. I do not believe that Crowley would condone murder. Murder goes against the true will of another. As far as the Zohar and masturbation it was the Taoist who originally spoke of semen not being wasted. Hence the taoist arts of retension to keep from ejaculation. The semen stays in the body rejuvenating it instead of spilling out and depleting vitae and kidney essence. The picture I grabbed from google images as I wanted something to represent AN SPH AR and I thought that did a lovely job of showing the "Sword" and serpent travelling through.

Its from the donmeh website that image,

Also, Judaism is far far older than Taosim..

As for preserving your seed while rejuvenating the body through masturbation.. That completely and utterly defeats the Jewish conception of reality. The Jewish reality considers wanton indulgement in fantasy and sexuality as impure - as from the side of impurity, and so if your 'filling' yourself with any energy, its derived from the side of impurity.

I would prefer to drop my seed as opposed to what Onan did in the bible, which is the exact same practice youve just described. The result of of this practice is the strengthening of the animal vital soul, not the divine soul. Preserving and containing this energy in your physical being is like preserving and holding on to (pardon the imagery) a bag of # while allowing it to foment and intoxicate you with its noxous fumes. Its poison to the soul.

You seem to have a much different philosophy than i have, thats obvious, but Crowley would not care regardless of what he wrote, anymore than the ancient pagans which according to you were more 'primitive'? than aliester crowley about matters of ethics. Ultimately, everything is 'relative' Read the classics like Platos republic. The philosopher kings of platos utopia are exactly the elites we have today. And according to plato, the will of the people is directed by the will of their elite. What do you think eugenics means.. or nobility? Eguenics means 'the profileration' of the noble class. Were simply building their society. Once its done, the nobles worthy of continuing civilization will continue, just as it is in the animal kingdom, while us lesser 'races' extinguished by the war, famine, disease that theyre planning to unleash on.

Todays society is an affirment of pagandom, of the practices of ancient greece, babylon and egypt from which christianity patterned itself. Sacrifice is practiced everyday; what do you think War is about? A serious threat? Or merely sacrificing people for a 'greater cause' which in their eyes is teh advancement of their global agenda... as we know is quite a protracted process.

Did you read Hidden_Hand's post from a few years back. I think alot of that info had a lot of validity as far as spiritual knowledge for expansion. It resonated with me and it explains all the negative stuff a certain group/family does and why they do it. The Harvest. Yet the Harvest is only a tool. I don't think any one spiritual path is the "true" path but as long as people are becoming self aware and doing what they can for the good of themselves AND fellow man thats whats important.

I'm not here to argue with anyone in particular, if anyone here knows me they can attest to the fact that I find such argument rather fruitless.

However, I feel compelled to comment adversely to those members professing that Chris Angel is in fact utilizing occult forces. Anyone who has studied enough esoteric material to become even remotely adept at what we can call physical manifestations of manifest forces would see the deployment of such knowledge for simple entertainment as exceedingly blasphemous and a direct insult to those that taught him or her. I have studied stage magic as well as true occult topics and I can say, without a doubt in my heart, that Mr. Angel is in no way utilizing any form of occult powers and to say so is truly an insult to those of us that take such study seriously. What Mr. Angel does is no different from what any other Vegas magician does and is nowhere near as impressive as Penn & Teller's catching a bullet in the teeth trick. More over, speaking to his character, I have met Mr. Angel and found him lacking the attributes normally attributable to someone possessing of great power. (In addition to this, he couldn't find the bathroom, which was located underneath a huge sign that said "Bathrooms", when I pointed this out he complained about the lack of a private bathroom).


In regards to the Necromicon, it is not real in the sense that it is not a true occult work and is not related to any other occult works by which you could cross reference it. There are a few ways to know if a book is in fact a true occult text, a knowledge of reputable authors is always useful, names such as Papus, Regardie, Crowley, Fortune, Levi etc are well known occult scholars. Another way is cross referencing it with other works and with other traditions. Generally, if you are reading a true occult work it will be applicable to many different philosophies through out history as the true knowledge of the divine is always true and the truth, as Levi said, is always the truth and will continue to be the truth throughout the rest of history.

True "magic" has nothing to do with conjuring demons or making people disappear, it's main concern is the union of the practitioner with the divine, it is knowledge studied in the hopes of transcendence. It is the quest for ultimate knowledge and understanding and a union with the unmanifest creative force from which all is derived . When one realizes one's existence in the universe and the falsity of separation from the divine it becomes possible that the occult student can affect change in the manifest physical world that may, to the uninitiated, seem "magical" but to the initiated will seem as an enacting of the classic Hermetic axiom "As above, so below".

What a study of the occult offers is not "magic", you will not receive impressive powers to fly and make things disappear, such is the folly of many a Renaissance magician. What you will receive, however, is peace in your heart and truth in your mind. You will understand things as they are, not as they seem, and therefore, may be able to affect a change where the ignorant may not. Spitting horrendous sounding words at a river will not make it change it's direction but a proper study and understanding of hydrodynamics gives one the basis on which to build a dam or canal to reroute the water. It is the same for the occult, you may do what you wish but without a proper understanding of the universe, of creation and an intimate knowledge of the the divine you will not have the intellectual and spiritual resources necessary to reroute the forces of existence.

Beware of those who promise power, who claim secret knowledge and the ability to summon demons and cast spells, such abilities are of a lower sphere of existence and are not truly concerned with transcendental knowledge of truth and of the divine. Many may profess knowledge but their lack of peace and the instability of their beliefs is evidence of false knowledge and a misunderstanding of the universe.

Why would one concern themselves with the manifestation of lower sphere beings and abilities when the true reward is oneness with the unmanifest origin of all?

First let me clarify that i'm a believer in the Bible but what i ment is that certin things in the Bible are metaphors and aren't going to happen in the way or mean in the way some people believe.


As far as your statement Shadowflux i get what your saying but magik isn't the only way to full fill ones quest for knowledge and to transcends ones take on what would constitute two dimensional reality there's flowing in the creators energy there's the understanding of the teaching of Buddhism there's the teaching of Zen also the Torah and the teachings of Muhammad the studys of these verys teachings can achieve the same enlightenment with out the dangers of messing with magik forces and in both instances you will see or have a understanding of supernatural forces without the evil that can come from the forces of magik.

Also you say we are all the same and yet nothing, it's true that when we flow in the creators energy we are one, but as people were all different just a plain and simple fact also in my opinion we can never be nothing or nothingness because there is love and that is always a constant.

I had a magic book in my hands once...
Quite the thing.
Wish I could get a look at it now, but to hold it in one's domicile is a dangerous thing.
People come looking for it.
Thanks heavens I left before that.
Ah, well, always figure we can create our own magic if we are so inclined.

Originally posted by ANSPHAR
Did you read Hidden_Hand's post from a few years back. I think alot of that info had a lot of validity as far as spiritual knowledge for expansion. It resonated with me and it explains all the negative stuff a certain group/family does and why they do it. The Harvest. Yet the Harvest is only a tool. I don't think any one spiritual path is the "true" path but as long as people are becoming self aware and doing what they can for the good of themselves AND fellow man thats whats important.

I agree..

But believing Crowley wouldnt have approved of Human sacrifice is very naive.

Read Platos Republic to get an ideological appreciation of the 'so civilized' ancient greeks.

Read Lucien of samosota, whos works survive to this day to give us an idea of how the pagans of asia minor circa 200 AD worshipped ,and its by no means reader friendly. they were some sick and demented people... YET, this philosophy and practices survived and thrived in every part of the pagan world. In Babylon, greece, Egypt. Human Sacrifice had a practical application that fit within their moral relativist philosophy.

Look at nature. Does not a lion ruthless tear apart its pray- with no thought whatsoever to the morality of what hes doing. That instinct propels him thus? What do you think goddess worship, which is worship of nature, implies? It implies the worship of NATURES LAWS and PRINCIPLES. One who believes this doesnt feel ashamed when he commits an act of evil, because their realluy ISNT an evil when theres first a NECCESITY. Necessity abolishes evil, it displaces it. The same way a lion who needs to eat and tear apart a Gazelle doesnt think first, netiher does man, who, in the minds of pagans, is a more developed and complicated animal. Man has lusts, desires, and seeks pleasure. This is the necessary relationship he shares with Nature, the law of nature which is 'immutable'. When finds something to be obstructing his pleasure, or when something limits his desire in some way, than its deemed a moral obstacle that needs to be overcome.

This is literally the line of reasoning in the pagan world. They will lie lie lie all day to mislead you. The 'profane' just dont understand. Maybe if you were introduced to areas like sacred geometry etc they would persuade you more. If you spent more time in their environment, youd be safely converted without putting up a fight fo scruples..

We live in a sick world. I know there are many many in the so called 'pagan' world who have a love for nature but consider their sense of right and wrong in a different way. They try to do whats right not giving thought to whether its the 'best' thing to do for them personally. I wouldnt say that. But the ELITE, the governing powers, and many within all the worlds socieites, they for some odd reason believe in the 'end justifies the means'.

Hey guys any more toughts on the subject? thanks for keeping the thread going over the 100 replies