Satan and Science, His Creation to Mislead

The questions you will inevitably have to face after making the statement found in the thread title include the following:

1) Why did God create Satan?
2) Why did/does God permit humans to study Science?
3) If God did not want Robots, then why are we born with the ability to think critically and ask questions about our existence?

You can choose to dance around these questions by coming up with illogical answers that serve your beliefs, but they will continue to resurface until they are answered satisfactorily.

Re: EasternShadow

Thanks for your answer.

I must point out, that I've never been the victim of religious persecution myself. MY 'fundamentalism' is a staunch support of liberal democracy, and my 'crusade' is against theocracy, political totalitarianism and other psycho-social insanities; .. where pseudo-gods like Stalin, Hitler or Jahve are said to possess or represent 'ultimate truth'.

The fundamentalism on this thread shows, that science is considered a stiff competitor on the 'truth' market. So it's discredited.

On other threads other competitors of fundamentalism are equally blindly and incompetently attacked. Soon another fundamentalist will start another thread derogating moslems, UN, academic research, liberalism or whatever.

This is not a question of 'truth' or 'reality', it's about creating a power monopoly.

Guess you're not so familiar with the history of 'christianity' in Europe. It's juicy reading, and includes the church's first attempts to kill rational or intellectual competition.

[edit on 6-9-2010 by bogomil]

Mankind was told to leave alone 2 trees.

Knowledge

Eternal life.

He chose knowledge, and satan's little helpers were only too happy to teach mankind metallurgy and make up.

We haven't done so well since then have we?

Re: harryhaller

Wakey-wakey. There's a whole universe outside your little religious bubble to take information from.

Or are you one of those brilliant masterminds, the creationists, who believe, that the whole cosmic story started with the 6-day creation and Eden-drama, and that all evidence of geology, cosmology etc is an expression of divine humour?

If this is the case, go back in the bubble. Won't disturb you any more.

If not, expand your horizon.

[edit on 6-9-2010 by bogomil]

Lucifer the first angel represents the intelect, Satan represents violence and cruelty. Just as different aspects of gods divine nature are expressed through angels different aspects of the devils malignant nature are expressed through different entities. Human emotional perceptions tend to 'humanify' everything, and these archaic understandings reveal a great deal about us and the 'emotional' essence of the things we perceive. The intellect is a useful tool, but it is just a means to an end, and as such can be used for good or ill, as with all things human.
If life is a learning experience, each decision influencing our perception of the world and ourselves, then lucifer is that teacher that fills their exams with trick questions. A quick and clever intellect can justify all, but that doesn't change the emotional impact of our decisions.

reply to post by kinglizard


God and satan are man made concepts , both of which have killed many more people than science ever will !

science is our understanding and explanation of the everyday world we live in !

Re: amodedoma

Just for the record. There's no THE Satan, it's A satan. The function of satans in the divine hierarchy were as an equalent of contemporary public prosecutors.

This information is taken from my bible, which being infallibillibal MUST be true.

Originally posted by kinglizard

1) Science has built unimaginable killing technology from the gun to weaponized viruses.

No, men have built those things. Men have also used science to save countless lives. Science is a tool. I can use a hammer to build or I can use a hammer to kill. My use of the tool is all that matters.

2) How many people have been killed through modern transportation.

How many people have been saved because trans-oceanic and trans-continental crossings take hours instead of months? Again, cars don't kill people on their own... it takes a driver.

3) How many have died because of technology grown cancers.

How many have had their lives prolonged by cancer treatments, organ transplants, drug therapies, etc.?

To key in more specifically on your example of cancer, there's a valid question of whether cancer rates are on the rise due to external causes or if we're seeing more cancer because people are living longer. If everyone dies at 60, there's less incidence of cancer. But when you regularly have people living into their 80's or 90's, suddenly the rates in those demographics shoot up.

4) How many animals have gone extinct in the name of progress.

And scientists are actively looking for ways to preserve and, potentially, bring extinct species back. It'll be just like Jurassic Park. Just cuter, fuzzier, and with less people being eaten.

5) How often do you push things of God's away to watch TV or sit on the computer?

I'm an atheist, so I don't acknowledge that I'm pushing anything of God's away. I do spend time with my family and friends. If you're suggesting that we're turning into a society of introverts due to technology, I would agree to a point. But, again, this is man's use of science, not some inherent evil that's present in science. My computer allows me to stay in contact with a network of friends that spans the globe, something that would be inordinately difficult to do without technology.

6) Science is killing our planet (God's beautiful creation) with pollution.

And, again, science isn't doing anything. Any damage to the planet is being done by us. The continuing use of fossil fuels is probably one of the most irresponsible things we, as a species, are doing right now. We definitely need to be better stewards of our planet, but it'll be science that gives us the advancements to do that.

To me, just one man's opinion, this post sounds like you're trying to alleviate any responsibility on the part of the human race for the misuse of science. This isn't a productive or responsible line of thought - we need to own the fact that we, as a species, have done some heinous things and work to correct them. Not bury our heads in the sand and pretend that simply ignoring science will save us.

Any comments I make about religion, esoterics, or the occult, are based on many years of study and reflection. I will not justify, attempt to explain, or argue further any commentaries I make on these subject matters - no need. I'm here to share, not to teach. If you disagree, I'm fine with that too.
I place no faith in what I think I know because I understand the nature of Lucifer and his downfall was pride.

When a you or a member of your family has a heart attack or gets seriously ill do not go to a hospital. Hospitals are evil because they use science? Pray to be better, lets see how that will work out for you.

reply to post by amodedoma


Good post amodema. A star for you. Finally, I found some great thought after 11 pages. I applaud you for your calmness. Something I need to study from you because I'm too quick to get tempted.

Yeah, I know it was silly of me. Should have known better.

Anyway I'm using your quote as my new signature. I hope you don't mind.

EDIT : I wish you could share a little more information on the Devil if you don't mind.

[edit on 6-9-2010 by EasternShadow]

reply to post by kinglizard


KL, been a while since we've done this sort of tango, excuse me if I'm a bit rusty on the steps or if I throw in a few new ones.

The thing about science and the scientific method is that they're absent from the question of 'morals'

Science has no morals, it's a method, it's a tool that can be used for either good or evil, depending on individuals and their choices.

Let's take any tool...I have a hammer next to me. You can use a hammer in many ways, but the most common is to take a nail and drive it through another material.

So you can use a hammer to help build a house, but it's also a nice hefty piece of metal on the end of a stick. You could also use it to collapse someone's skull.

But the hammer itself doesn't choose, you choose.

So science is actually quite great because of its myriad uses. It gives us all sorts of options.

Are you aware that without science our lifespans would probably be half of what they are now without the wonders of science?
Purification of water, availability of medical treatments, sterilization, sewage disposal and the like are all works of science.

And sure, science has been used to build WMDs and to hurt others, but its more often used to help people than not.

As for feeding starving children, I know a man of science helping with that, maybe you can give him a small donation for his work: Project Peanut Butter

He wants to save the lives of 2 million children by 2015. That's good science.

Originally posted by harryhaller
Mankind was told to leave alone 2 trees.

Knowledge

Eternal life.

Odd how that is. In Genesis chapter 1:29 God tells man he can eat from every tree.

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

The tree of knowledge or the tree of life is not even mentioned or warned about in chapter one.

Lord God Yahweh is not even mentioned in chapter 1. Only God.

Lord God Yahweh is the God of deception. He is the tree of knowledge of good and evil, Ref the serpent which Lord God had created. The serpent spoke of knowledge.



[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

reply to post by spy66


They are using disregarded narrative of Adam and Eve. It's originated from Judaism Hebrew Aprocha and is written in Islamic Quran but even so it's not been used in proper context for both Judaism and Islam doesn't have original sin which cause all this havoc. You can see how messy it get. Now I understand why New Testament disregard it.

[edit on 6-9-2010 by EasternShadow]

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Let's take any tool...I have a hammer next to me. You can use a hammer in many ways, but the most common is to take a nail and drive it through another material.

So you can use a hammer to help build a house, but it's also a nice hefty piece of metal on the end of a stick. You could also use it to collapse someone's skull.

But the hammer itself doesn't choose, you choose.

Welcome back Madness, good to see you around.

What if that hammer was an object of great desire, even a status symbol. They cost several hundreds of dollars and their beauty and the social status that they lend to their owner encourages them to buy a new one every 6 months as they discard the old. It's a perpetual never ending cycle of waste and unrealistic desire for this object. Who does the object serve? From a Christian viewpoint if possible.

Maybe one simple 12 dollar steel hammer would due for most of your life time.

All the money wasted could have been used for better purposes. No doubt that's a choice for the individual to make but the influence of the "object of great desire" is a difficult thing to ignore.

reply to post by EasternShadow


It seams so. If you fallow the story of Cain, more strange things are being said.

When Cain was cast away. He traveled to Nod east for Eden. And there he married?

The question is: who did Cain marry? The children of Adam and Eve didn't dwell there.

It says Cain built a city there? Yeah, but with who else?

Originally posted by kinglizard
Welcome back Madness, good to see you around.

What if that hammer was an object of great desire, even a status symbol. They cost several hundreds of dollars and their beauty and the social status that they lend to their owner encourages them to buy a new one every 6 months as they discard the old. It's a perpetual never ending cycle of waste and unrealistic desire for this object. Who does the object serve? From a Christian viewpoint if possible.

Maybe one simple 12 dollar steel hammer would due for most of your life time.

All the money wasted could have been used for better purposes. No doubt that's a choice for the individual to make but the influence of the "object of great desire" is a difficult thing to ignore.

What point are you trying to get at here? Science != consumerism, materialism, or capitalism, so I'm not sure how you're even relating the two together. All Madness was getting at is that humans decide how we use our tools, therefore that means that humans are inherently evil (using your logic) not some method of knowledge discovery, inanimate object, or your imaginary enemy.

If you realized that you're just describing the natural mentality of humanity (that we're destructive and selfish) and not some tool or method that we developed, then you would probably realize that trying to encapsulate "science" in your limited view of morals is entirely absurd.

Blame human nature if you're going to blame anything at all. Then again, it's a lot easier blaming something we don't have the ability to quantify than to take responsibility for the negative things that happen in the world.

[edit on 6-9-2010 by DisappearCompletely]

The bible says that god is omnipresent. God created lucifer, aka satan. This means that he/she/it knew what was to befall all creation before he snapped his fingers or wiggled her nose or clapped its hands with the creation of the fallen angel. It also means that god knows everything about everything, past or future.

With this one could argue that science is god's intended plan... along with starvation, cruelty, disease, strife, death, and a myriad of other negative effects encountered by man.

Originally posted by kinglizard

...

3) Has science and technology killed more people than any other single thing?

...

I'm sorry I forgot the third one. It would be only my opinion but I would still make the guess that religion has been the leading factor in the expiration of man. For one to be exact you would have to go back to the advent of christianity and good numbers of death tolls dealing with god at the root. Even though people die a lot today, I don't think that the past 100 years (I realize it goes back further) of science induced atrocities could accumulate to the same number of people killed during the crusades, or the inquisitions. Actually, there are so many to list I will link a page here for your perusal.

Religious Death Toll's

EDIT:
Also keep in mind the percent of the population sizes at that time versus now. Several thousand then would be much more now.

[edit on 6-9-2010 by rockn82]

[edit on 6-9-2010 by rockn82]

Originally posted by ReginaAdonnaAaron

Science is absolutely OF God because God is the Creator of science.

[edit on 5-9-2010 by ReginaAdonnaAaron]

This is the bs that draws me in.....lmao
I would like to know what makes the mind think this way.

Science requires proof.
Where is yours?

What did god have to say about the dinosaurs? The fossil record is proof.
The age of the Earth? The age of the universe? Science has proof, but the bible provides non scientific misinformation.

I would say BS is absolutely OF God because the bible is proof, but wait..God did not write it....man did. If God was to give a public speech I would believe he said what he said. However your god likes to play little peekaboo games with hippies on mountains. Last thing we are going to see is God speaking to the world. It would make sense, so we can't have that.

Where did your god go? It has been a day or two since we heard of any godly activity.

What makes you so sure your religion of choice is the right choice.

Why must your creator be allmighty?

Your parents are your creators, but we don't worship them for having sex now do we.