2012: what do we actually know?

reply to post by MrXYZ


You only believe they are illusions because someone else told you that.
And you believe everything that someone else tells you.

Remember, culture is not your friend.

You may have discovered something great, but you will never know because some people tells you " Its fake ".

Probably is what the astronauts were brainwashed to believe after moon landing 1969. Its all fake. They actually saw nothing weird.
Yeah, brainwashing.
I experienced brainwashing.

People can be brainwashed to think their black friend can harm them. Even when its false.

Your " Its all illusions " its a belief. Not a fact.

[edit on 1-9-2010 by Zagari]

Wait until technology is able to show you things that do look completely real.
People will shift the way they tell things, and instead of telling you real things are fake, they will soon tell you that fake things are real.
Wait for it...

Originally posted by Zagari
Wait until technology is able to show you things that do look completely real.
People will shift the way they tell things, and instead of telling you real things are fake, they will soon tell you that fake things are real.
Wait for it...

So basically you're willing to accept things that haven't been proven just for the sake of it rather than waiting until science is able to clear it up? Not very logical...

Why one earth should I believe in something that's been debunked or that has no scientific backing? If I did that, I could make up whatever I wanted and believe in it...like unicorns, or dwarfs farting rainbows. Sorry, but that's not how the world and human species makes progress.

If you completely take away the burden of proof, everyone could claim everything he wanted. That's just stupid.

[edit on 1-9-2010 by MrXYZ]

There's some confusion on if it's 2012 or 2013 due to errors (intentional or unintentional) concerning the Gregorian calendar.

Keep in mind, that the Christian calendar is based around Jesus' birth and Jesus was born in 7-2 BC.

Why could it be December 21 2012 if our calendar isn't even accurate?

I'm just waiting for the 'I told you so's' posts on December 2012 but the calendar is out of whack. This could be the year 2008 or 2012 for all we know.

We know it is a date in the future that many people are scared of.

Hate to simplify things but that's your answer.

Regards.

Originally posted by star in a jar
There's some confusion on if it's 2012 or 2013 due to errors (intentional or unintentional) concerning the Gregorian calendar.

Keep in mind, that the Christian calendar is based around Jesus' birth and Jesus was born in 7-2 BC.

Why could it be December 21 2012 if our calendar isn't even accurate?

I'm just waiting for the 'I told you so's' posts on December 2012 but the calendar is out of whack. This could be the year 2008 or 2012 for all we know.

Yeah thats kinda scary to think about. If we got christ's date wrong by two years that means it could be december 21st THIS YEAR!

What do I know?
-That life will change a lot in early 2010s, more than it changed over the past decades (based on astrological cycles, and this is happening right now) And based on this, much more change will still occur in the next few years

- That before 1995, several independent sources (Ra material, McKenna, Mayans)... spoke of years around 2012 as a major shift, resulting in inner changes for most people, and also significant outer changes (earth events, social events), etc; this is also occurring right now.

- That humans in general have difficulty in understanding really about these stuff. Therefore, all the 2012 hype. Nothing extraordinary will probably happen, but massive changes are occurring already and will probably continue to occur in the years surrounding 2012, and that is already very significant and supports much of what those sources predicted.



[edit on 1-9-2010 by segurelha]

Originally posted by Zagari

So, suddenly all the skeptics know about the future!!!


[edit on 1-9-2010 by Zagari]

Genius. I'm of the mindset that I don't know for sure what will happen. I like to look at the worst case scenarios just so I will be prepared for it. So I won't be like "whaa" if anything does happen.

If nothing happens we all(skeptics & believers) win. If every possible bad thing happens we all lose.

We know the government is trying very hard to hide something in the sky from us...

I had a dream once, many years ago. It was very vivid so in the morning I told it to my wife at the time. The next day was busy. I traveled several hundred miles for my job and met several friends along the way. I came home that evening, went out with my wife and met several more friends. At the end of the evening she asked me to tell her the dream again. I did. She said "do you realize everyone you met today was in your dream".

I was blown away. Everyone close to me that I saw that day was in the dream...in order.

I don't pretend to be psychic, I don't even have a clue what my experience means, but I know there's more to the world around me then many people recognize. Sure most (if not all) prophets are often wrong. Does that mean prophecy is useless or does it mean we don't understand it yet? I for one am willing to look stupid in the eyes of skeptics/debunkers for the chance to explore.

reply to post by Zagari


LOL Didn't the captain of the ship state that not even GOD could sink his ship? Well damn GOD just proved him wrong.

reply to post by cluckerspud


Why would you do the same....oh wait we all wouldn't be back. LOL

reply to post by Zagari


yes, you are correct. It is even like NASA stating that their research on space or astronomy is fact, but when they built hubble and the VLT was built their views seemed to have been 'debunked'. Now they are trying to figure out why planets are spinning backwards or why one planet has a comet tail or two large planets orbiting the sun really close and not burning up.

my references for those who think I am making sh1~ up.

comet like planet with tail

planets spinning backwards

I believe this is the newest latest thing NASA found

We would know a whole lot more about 2012 and the events that have been predicted if important threads, that matter were not constantly derailed and trashed.
Its my personal belief that the events are true, I have no reason to believe otherwise. Its either believe the corrupt agencies that supply the info saying that its all BS or believe what I have read in the bible and prophecies that were told years/centuries ago.
How many of you here now are totally different now to what you were a year or so ago? You look at things differently now? I do.
Don't ask me how or why but everything has changed.

I was. Materialistic money orientated, self centered piece of #. I was also fuming when 911 happened. I hated muslims with a passion. For what they had done.
Then I started seeing things from different perspectives and life put me in situations where I was face to face with those I hated, the thing is I realised that I only hated these people, human beings because of the bs I was shown. They hadn't done anything to me personaly, I hadn't witnessed any of this first hand, it was what I was shown and led to think.
Makes me sick to my stomach to think what I was. What about you?
I've never done anything what was targeted towards others of other religions etc but the thoughts I had and the things that I had said in the past I would say is just as bad. So... I would like to make an apology to everyone for my narrow minded ways. I have no problem with anyone.
Sorry.

reply to post by jazz10


My viewpoints have totally changed after reading some of the translated Sumerian tablets. Everybody has it wrong and that is what is making me laugh.

I do get very annoyed with people and their sloppy logic, and the misuse of words.

Firstly, the word skeptic is used far too often to denote someone who is not at all skeptical. A skeptic takes nothing at face value, they question EVERYTHING. I am a skeptic. I don't blindly accept anything I'm told, and that includes the official story. People like Phage are not skeptics, because they always accept any mundane answer over a "non-official" answer, because to do anything else would cause them panic. The only difference between someone who believes every single conspiracy theory they hear and someone who believes every swamp gas explanation for everything is their bias. Neither of them are being skeptical, because they've already made up their mind on what they choose to believe.

Secondly, it's about time somebody debunked debunking. Just because someone can throw together a mundane answer for something does not mean that they have proven or disproven anything, they've just offered up a different perspective. Take crop circles, for example. IF crop circles were really a spooky supernatural occurance, and I was in a position of influence and wanted to make people believe there was nothing spooky, all I'd need to do is arrange for a couple of guys to get caught faking one, and then that little "debunking" exercise would provide those timid minds with enough "evidence" that the entire thing is faked. Throughout history, and right in the modern day, human nature has driven us to replicate what we see in nature. The fact that people are faking crop circles does not mean that all crop circles are faked. Equally, all fire engines are red, but that doesn't mean that everything that's red is a fire engine.

And so on to 2012. Again, there's no real difference between the 2 positions. The believers want to believe, and the nonbelievers want to believe that nothing will happen, and both sides claim that they're right and that the rest will eat their words, but the truth is, we could all be wiped off the face of this planet today and there's no way we'd be given any notice by the governments of the planet. If there is something coming, and TPTB know about it, I guarantee you that we will be the last to be officially told.

So rather than speculate on the future, what do we know about the past? Quite a lot, actually.

We know that throughout human history, our official scientific view of the world and the universe beyond has always and consistently been incorrect, but despite that we have constantly believed ourselves to be very very clever and very very right. We've always looked back at what we used to believe and scoffed at how silly our ancestors were, and basked in the joy that now, finally, we've got it all worked out and we're right. It is sublime arrogance, and yet also completely consistent, that right now, we believe that our science has all the answers, when in fact, the more honest scientists will tell you completely differently. We KNOW nothing. All we have is theories that haven't yet been disproven, and an awful lot of people dedicating their careers to trying to disprove them.

So we have 2 distinct sides, both utterly convinced that they're right, but both sides have just listened to who they wanted to believe in and not questioned it one bit.

If we want to understand our past, we need to look at our future. If all of us were wiped out (and every civilisation that has come before us has ended. Ours wouldn't have existed if they hadn't. We're just the latest in a line, and our time will end), it really wouldn't be terribly long before any trace of our civilisation was gone. All of our knowledge, our books, our data, our methods of communication, transport, the entire infrastuructre of life would be gone without a trace. There would be no evidence of our existence other than what has been carved in stone, and much of that is decorative and not informative. Will that lack of evidence mean we never existed? Of course not, that's ludicrous, and yet so many so-called "skeptics" believe that of our past. Because they cannot see evidence of things that could not possibly still exist, they use that lack of evidence as evidence of non-existence. Utter foolishness. Take your heads out of the sand and think for yourself for once.

And so, I shall remain one of the few (but not the only) true skeptics on this site. And my own personal opinion on 2012? I believe that there's enough things left behind carved in stone and written in ancient documents that have now been hijacked by religions that to dismiss the possibility of a "great awakening" or other global event (and there have been many global events in the past, they're regular as clockwork) is wishful thinking. History is replete with accounts of people's famous last words being something along the lines of "We'll be fine, what could possibly go wrong?". However, I'm not selling my possessions and I'm not running for the hills. I believe (but do not know) that my consciousness has been kicking around for a lot longer than this body, and "I" will still exist long after it's dust, so whatever is ahead of me in this life, be that old age and senility or a quick and catastrophic death at the hands of Nibiru or the Annunaki, or a speeding car as I cross the road going for milk in 10 minutes, or blissful Acension to a higher plane of existence, I intend to face the future without fear, without arrogance, and with dignity at all times.

How do we prepare for the future? My advice would be to stop eating processed food, real food grows in the ground, and it's free, get your fat ass away from the computer and go get some exercise, love yourself, love your family, love your friends, love your enemies, stop looking out for yourself at the expense of others, stop worrying about money and whether or not your bum looks too fat or if your hair is fashionable. And most importantly, STOP BEING AFRAID!

I used to frequent a forum plenty of those so called scientific people but i grown up to be disgusted.
People were posting about 2012, simply asking for information and they would immediately enter the thread, telling " Nothing is going to happen and this thread needs to be closed ".

In my mind I was always thinking " Yeah, closed because the more we get near to 2012 the more you are scared haha ".

Those people wouldn't allow a simple discussion about 2012, they would only tell " Nothing will ever happen, you are a fool ".
They would even repeat the same reply multiple times.

Don't they realize, that, if something they don't allow to happen, does happen, they will be the first to say " My heart is aching "????

Don't they realize they disclose their fear? Fear of what? I'm excited more we go near to 2012...Excited, not afraid.

reply to post by Zagari


So you think that people dismiss so called evidence because they're scared, and not because the current evidence is non existent or a misinterpretation of something?

I have yet to see one single solid piece of evidence regarding 2012. I have seen a lot of lies and misinterpretation of things.

I think it has more to do with the lack of actual evidence and more to do with fear mongering and misinterpretation of physics and astronomy. Claiming that it's fear is kind of silly. Do you really think that everyone deals with fear the same way? How would you even know how people fell anyway? It seems you're pulling the fear card in order to substantiate your claims.

Can we rule out that there will be a worldwide cataclysm in 2012? No
Can we rule out a cataclysm for 2011? No
Can we rule out a cataclysm for 2034? No
Is there evidence for a cataclysm for any of the above times? No
Do people want us to believe that there's evidence for 2012? Yes
Do believers place more validity and credability to the Hopi and misinterpreted Mayan Codeces, than modern science? Yes.

[edit on 2-9-2010 by spinalremain]

What evidence do you expect there to be?

If I decided to walk up to you in the street and punch you in the face and break your nose, the lack of evidence preceding the event would not in any way prevent me from doing it. Even if you'd been told that I was likely to punch you in the face, there would still be no evidence of it. Should you then approach me without caution, because of that lack of evidence? What if someone you thought you could trust knew that I was going to punch you, but decided to tell you with absolute certainty that I definitely wasn't going to punch you. Would your faith in them stop me from crunching every bit of cartilage in your nose? Or maybe you should listen to the warnings, even without evidence, and leave town, try to get as far away from me as possible in the hopes that I wouldn't find you? You could live the rest of your life in fear of me.

Believe you me, if something is coming this way with our names on it, you will not be saved by a lack of evidence before hand.

Originally posted by Zagari
I used to frequent a forum plenty of those so called scientific people but i grown up to be disgusted.
People were posting about 2012, simply asking for information and they would immediately enter the thread, telling " Nothing is going to happen and this thread needs to be closed ".

In my mind I was always thinking " Yeah, closed because the more we get near to 2012 the more you are scared haha ".

Those people wouldn't allow a simple discussion about 2012, they would only tell " Nothing will ever happen, you are a fool ".
They would even repeat the same reply multiple times.

Don't they realize, that, if something they don't allow to happen, does happen, they will be the first to say " My heart is aching "????

Don't they realize they disclose their fear? Fear of what? I'm excited more we go near to 2012...Excited, not afraid.

You are confusing "total lack of evidence" with fear

You know, logical and rational people want proof before believing in something. And being sceptical is a GOOD thing, it prevents us from falling for charlatans like the 2012 fear mongers who up until now, haven't provided a single drop of hard scientific evidence.