Morally LaVey's Satanism is superior to Christianity.

reply to post by GunzCoty

Did he not give blood to save mankind? (anyway you look at it Jesus as God or the Son. God still gave him up)

So are you really trying to persuade me/ yourself, that an omniscient/omnipresent/omnipotent/omnibenvolent being, the creator of all that there is, was or will ever be. Created something then somehow failed to get what it created to act according to it's design, and the best idea it could come up with in order to obtain compliance was to pretend to have itself killed ??


Needless to say, you will perform some spectacular cranial gymnastics in order to make excuses for this nonsense and develop a warped sense of reason to make it all look as though it really makes sense and suit what you want desperately to believe.

reply to post by dominicus

Oh well, another one bites the Matrix dust

Dude, the matrix was a movie, imaginary sci fi, the reason that your educated friends have not experienced what you claim to have is solely because they only exist in your mind.

I have not studied this thread yet but i will come back to it when I have time.
I'm thinking the title speaks for itself.

reply to post by The Djin


lol i like you your funny.

But anyway um... you said "Created something then somehow failed" If you read the Bible you will see that the life of Jesus was to be the Sacrifice for all mankind (the things he did with his time like healing and teaching are part of it.)

BTW nice name lol i just noticed it. Its ok don't get mad we are all friends here at ATS believe what you will and others will do the same.

Its all good kid.

reply to post by GunzCoty


Sure thing, buddy - I should have included the reference in my post.
Check Numbers 31 onward. Jehovah lays out exactly what is to be a tribute to him.

Originally posted by clever024
this has nothing to do with God vs. Satan honestly. if people knew half the truth you would understand that Jesus is never coming back, and the second coming of Christ is really lucifer if you ever read revelations. but thats neither here nor there.

Agreed.
But that's because Christ is Lucifer.
Haven't y'all heard that old folksong, The Hymn of Lucifer?

"He has two heads
one is the King of Hell
the other is Jesus of Nazareth."

Jesus and Jehovah - NOT THE SAME GOD.

Why do you think y'all are subconsciously rejecting the OT?
There is a reason for that.
One of the biggest cover-up jobs in history.

Originally posted by CodyOutlaw
Why do you think y'all are subconsciously rejecting the OT?
There is a reason for that.
One of the biggest cover-up jobs in history.

If you mind not, could you please elaborate on that last line.

It is intriguing to say the least.

[edit on 26/8/2010 by Dark Ghost]

reply to post by The Djin

Dude, the matrix was a movie, imaginary sci fi, the reason that your educated friends have not experienced what you claim to have is solely because they only exist in your mind.

ya ok!!! Well if I would have known I was talking to a 7 year old I would saved myself some time and not even written i the first place. "only exist in your mind" ...thats just more proof that we do live in a matrix (see buddhism, dzogchen, advaita vedanata, nonduality)

You think its only a movie cause you've been tricked, lied to, and are stuck in the matrix itself.

reply to post by dominicus

You think its only a movie cause you've been tricked, lied to, and are stuck in the matrix itself

Yeah well I remember that nonsense about the "Third Eye" you wrote but surprise surprise you weren't allowed to share with anyone.

Dude if I'm stuck in a matrix then you're obviously stuck here with me or there's only one of us in the room.

reply to post by CodyOutlaw


Hey i looked it up but nothing. There was in Numbers 31 what looked like it, God did say bring the men unto me but they never did kill them instead they gave up the gold and silver as a replacement for there life. So it still never happened.

But again if you could just get me a page and let me know what version ill look it up. And is that what you were talking about in Numbers 31 or should i have gone on from there to the next book?

reply to post by Tiger5

I think some others have responded to Satan and/or Lucifer in the Bible, and it's not the exact territory of LaVeyan Satanism (although individual Satanists may explore it further). In Job God and Lucifer appear like old drinking buddies who make a bet about the limits of Job's faith. So here their relationship hardly seems antagonistic. Also, many books were detroyed as heretical before before Pope Damascus I (382 AD) ordered St Jerome to compile the official Bible in the OT/NT formats. So we have little idea what other texts said about Lucifer or Satan (or whether the two figures are indeed the same). However, it is noted that several priests who studied the Gnostic texts to understand their heresies became involved in such practices themselves. (An old problem for Christian anti-occult books. When I grew up "The Satanic Bible" was banned in SA, and I compiled my first rituals from Christian "Satanic-panic" type books, which always had passages from LaVey.) One may well wonder what secrets lurk in the Vatican's secret archives, perhaps including:

Heretical Gnostic writings, including texts by groups such as the Orphites - who worshipped Lucifer as the 'Light Bringer' and the serpent as the giver of knowledge - and the Borborites, who are rumoured to have feasted on aborted foetuses and to have drunk human blood. (Cyrus Shahrad: "Secrets of the Vatican", Gramercy Books, 2007: p.127)

What the exact link to any modern Satanism of this is remains unclear. But it does suggest that there were other undertsandings of Satan and Lucifer at a stage that remain officially obscured.
Satan became a composite figure of pagan Gods and symbols - horned like Pan. This was certainly a propaganda move by the church, since the Bible doesn't describe him like that.
To LaVey Satan is an archetype that more accurately and honestly represents mankind's animalistic state, which the righthand paths use to manipulate us through guilt. He's also pretty scathing of "white magic" and Eastern gurus, and not anti-Chritian per se (no upside down crosses or anything in his work). In fact he says that highly Satanic individuals exist in the religions.
As for Islam - that faith admits it was built on the prophets of the OT and Christianity, and Mohammed was influenced by the Jews and Christians in Arabia (who were not always sects with official teachings). Nevertheless, the "Shaitan" adversary was lifted into Islam (like much else, so that's not surprising).

As for your query on posssession. I think most of it is psychological and modelled on seeing or reading of the behaviour of other "possessed" people. So Catholic and charismatic exorcisms are quite different in many ways, since the traditions are different. Catholics have lengthy focused rituals, and charismatics indulge in quick, mass exorcisms, and career excorcists like Bob Larson apparently even offer phone excorcims. In this "demon" industry almost every negative mental state is blamed on a "spirit" or demon, form lethargy to depression. What makes it confusing at face value is that many denominations don't regard each other as legitimate, and they accuse each other of fake exorcisms.
To call possession "demonic" is moralizing the experience from a Christian vantage point - in African ancestor worship and Voodoo it is seen as mostly positive. Nevertheless, all cultures have a form of exorcism for unwanted spirits, and no belief has a monopoly on successful exorcisms.
Unfortuantely I haven't seen any evidence of anything supernatural. However, mind-control can be as powerful as "spiritual possession", and a person who becomes convinced that they are possessed can be considered "mentally possessed".
I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath-water however. The Ensfield Haunting tapes of the girl's voice-changeovers are intriguing (see ATS threads). However, the case of the possessed boy on whom the "Exorcist" films were based probably faked his symptoms and moved the furniture around and scratched himself. It's more religious showbiz, or people blaming their actions on an outside agency.
There was a case in England of a man being possessed by a "wolf spirit". This I found convincing once. I was interested especially in cases where kids are concerned, and that are not connected to occult or religious prompting. However, viewing the footage again, I'm quite skeptical. Firstly the attacks on police and physical changes do not appear, and secondly the "wolf spirit" of his childhood becomes the devil.
Here is the footage - note that the only clip I could find is heavily pasted with religious propaganda, which was not in the original and can be ignored at will:
www.mefeedia.com...
If people feel they have more convincing evidence of demonic possession, except for a person acting out modelled behaviour, they are welcome to add.

[edit on 28-8-2010 by halfoldman]

reply to post by The Djin

Yeah well I remember that nonsense about the "Third Eye" you wrote but surprise surprise you weren't allowed to share with anyone. Dude if I'm stuck in a matrix then you're obviously stuck here with me or there's only one of us in the room.

the third eye thing has nothing to do with anything ...I was asked not to tell people because you can have problems if you try the exercise without a teacher and yet ... really wanted to tell everyone. It was a catch 22 and everyone found out anyway

the reason that your educated friends have not experienced what you claim to have is solely because they only exist in your mind.

Do you not see the fallacy in your stance" ...I can also say that everything you believe ..that Christianity is this and that its that .....and Satanism is the better path that it all solely exists in your mind.

really are you like 8 years old?

reply to post by halfoldman



Well I must say that i enjoyed your writings here. Yes it is funny that possession seems to be a learned response. Not to go off topic the wolf spirit possession was something that I had seen with my own eyes. in York.

I am going to look up deistic satanism and ask a few aquaintances. The problem with archetypes is that they do seem to merge together and meld at the very least within the human mind.

Rgds

Tiger5

reply to post by The Djin

It's not imaginary, it's the force that governs the universe, everything is frequncies of energetic waves, but they are not set up by mistake, there are rules, some know the power and abuse it, they take advantage of it and pose as gods. They play humanity, it's not god's fault, stop blaming the arhitect.

reply to post by GunzCoty


Just take the KJV - at the end, they do offer up money so they can keep their slaves, but that is only from their (2nd) portion of the spoils which was taken by the men who went out to war. The first portion comes after they have killed every man, burnt the cities, murdered all the women who'd ever had sex, and killed every male child, and is for the whole congregation.

Jehovah demands human sacrifice from both portions.

Also, check out 2 Samuel 21 .

Originally posted by Dark Ghost

Originally posted by CodyOutlaw
Why do you think y'all are subconsciously rejecting the OT?
There is a reason for that.
One of the biggest cover-up jobs in history.

If you mind not, could you please elaborate on that last line.

It is intriguing to say the least.

[edit on 26/8/2010 by Dark Ghost]

I mind not at all, dude - I'll send you a u2u tonight, so as not to get a smack on the wrist for being too off-topic.

reply to post by Dark Ghost


RE biggest coverups.

Compare greek NT account of jesus w/titus/flavian campaigns in josephus- jesus was a roman psyop piece to take the teeth out of jewish antipathy against the empire. Prior refs to jewish messiah describes a warrior leading an army to defeat enemies of judea. There are specific refs to jewish warrior messiah in Livy and in Gibbon histories which happend around the same time that Xianity was adopted by some roman aristocrats. NT jesus messiah is portrayed as a non-combatant who does not fight back- convenient

Many of us probably thought as kids that rome created Xanity to increase political control, but this possibility now has some evidence to back it up.

www.covertmessiah.com...

This idea kind of informs some of the cultural animosity between Xians and jewish people.

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the DEVILS also BELIEVE, and tremble.
(James 2:19)

The following statements are made in the "churche's" nine satanic statements and its eleven satanic rules for earth respectively

Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek
Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they don’t stop, destroy them


Does not sound so morally superior to me. The bit about "non-human" implies that killing humans are fine, or am i wrong? Also says that killing babies are forbidden....says nothing about adults?
Sorry, if i seem uninformed, but this is not superior morallity in MY understanding of the concept.

Jesus killed a fig tree because it had no fruit.

Is the killing of plants because you're hungry, but the plant has no fruit; that's a good thing for a Christian to do?

Matthew 21:18-22


Early in the morning, as Jesus was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, “May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered.