reply to post by Tiger5
I think some others have responded to Satan and/or Lucifer in the Bible, and it's not the exact territory of LaVeyan Satanism (although individual
Satanists may explore it further). In Job God and Lucifer appear like old drinking buddies who make a bet about the limits of Job's faith. So here
their relationship hardly seems antagonistic. Also, many books were detroyed as heretical before before Pope Damascus I (382 AD) ordered St Jerome to
compile the official Bible in the OT/NT formats. So we have little idea what other texts said about Lucifer or Satan (or whether the two figures are
indeed the same). However, it is noted that several priests who studied the Gnostic texts to understand their heresies became involved in such
practices themselves. (An old problem for Christian anti-occult books. When I grew up "The Satanic Bible" was banned in SA, and I compiled my first
rituals from Christian "Satanic-panic" type books, which always had passages from LaVey.) One may well wonder what secrets lurk in the Vatican's
secret archives, perhaps including:
Heretical Gnostic writings, including texts by groups such as the Orphites - who worshipped Lucifer as the 'Light Bringer' and the serpent as
the giver of knowledge - and the Borborites, who are rumoured to have feasted on aborted foetuses and to have drunk human blood. (Cyrus Shahrad:
"Secrets of the Vatican", Gramercy Books, 2007: p.127)
What the exact link to any modern Satanism of this is remains unclear. But it does suggest that there were other undertsandings of Satan and Lucifer
at a stage that remain officially obscured.
Satan became a composite figure of pagan Gods and symbols - horned like Pan. This was certainly a propaganda move by the church, since the Bible
doesn't describe him like that.
To LaVey Satan is an archetype that more accurately and honestly represents mankind's animalistic state, which the righthand paths use to manipulate
us through guilt. He's also pretty scathing of "white magic" and Eastern gurus, and not anti-Chritian per se (no upside down crosses or anything in
his work). In fact he says that highly Satanic individuals exist in the religions.
As for Islam - that faith admits it was built on the prophets of the OT and Christianity, and Mohammed was influenced by the Jews and Christians in
Arabia (who were not always sects with official teachings). Nevertheless, the "Shaitan" adversary was lifted into Islam (like much else, so that's
As for your query on posssession. I think most of it is psychological and modelled on seeing or reading of the behaviour of other "possessed"
people. So Catholic and charismatic exorcisms are quite different in many ways, since the traditions are different. Catholics have lengthy focused
rituals, and charismatics indulge in quick, mass exorcisms, and career excorcists like Bob Larson apparently even offer phone excorcims. In this
"demon" industry almost every negative mental state is blamed on a "spirit" or demon, form lethargy to depression. What makes it confusing at face
value is that many denominations don't regard each other as legitimate, and they accuse each other of fake exorcisms.
To call possession "demonic" is moralizing the experience from a Christian vantage point - in African ancestor worship and Voodoo it is seen as
mostly positive. Nevertheless, all cultures have a form of exorcism for unwanted spirits, and no belief has a monopoly on successful exorcisms.
Unfortuantely I haven't seen any evidence of anything supernatural. However, mind-control can be as powerful as "spiritual possession", and a
person who becomes convinced that they are possessed can be considered "mentally possessed".
I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath-water however. The Ensfield Haunting tapes of the girl's voice-changeovers are intriguing (see ATS
threads). However, the case of the possessed boy on whom the "Exorcist" films were based probably faked his symptoms and moved the furniture around
and scratched himself. It's more religious showbiz, or people blaming their actions on an outside agency.
There was a case in England of a man being possessed by a "wolf spirit". This I found convincing once. I was interested especially in cases where
kids are concerned, and that are not connected to occult or religious prompting. However, viewing the footage again, I'm quite skeptical. Firstly the
attacks on police and physical changes do not appear, and secondly the "wolf spirit" of his childhood becomes the devil.
Here is the footage - note that the only clip I could find is heavily pasted with religious propaganda, which was not in the original and can be
ignored at will:
If people feel they have more convincing evidence of demonic possession, except for a person acting out modelled behaviour, they are welcome to
[edit on 28-8-2010 by halfoldman]