Asking for The Wisdom of ATS: A question for all

Hello fellow ATS'ers and thanks for reading. I am starting this thread to get some feedback from the ATS community. With as many differing opinions and backgrounds as there are on ATS, I am sure that many of you can generate solution to my problem that will come in handy.

I am relatively new to the conspiracy world. I have always been intrigued by alternative views of history but I had never taken any of them seriously. That was until a few years ago. I was watching a documentary on 9/11 and one specific event on that day shook my world; the fall of building 7. I was glued to the TV as the attacks happened in 2001, and even days afterward, but I had never seen anything about building 7. Many years later, watching said documentary, I found out that it wasn't just the Twin Towers that had fallen that day.

This had a profound effect on me and thus began my journey into the world of conspiracies. I am thankful for that as I now believe I have a better grasp on the world around me. I have much to learn, but I am not the sheep I once was.

Now that I am delving deeper into conspiracies, I have many people around me that ask questions. Some of them are hecklers and only bring up the issue to make me look crazy, but others are truly interested. I try to only give them small amounts of information and tell them the rest is up to you. How does the old saying go? You can lead a horse to water.....But you can't make it drink. That is my current approach in a nutshell.

So here are my questions:

How do I expose a sheep to the world of conspiracies without alienating them in the process?

I have tried to do so before but I think some people don’t care, some dismiss it as lunacy even with vast amounts of good information, and others are willing to entertain the idea of conspiracies but find themselves experiencing information overload. We all know that there is much to take in when looking into conspiracy theories and I get overloaded at times as well. But to a newbie researching these types of subjects it can be a lot to take in.

How does one "debate" a sheep when discussing alternative views on historical or current events?

Even with accurate information it is hard to get people to realize the truth, even when it’s staring them in the face. That's the nature of conspiracies I guess.

I thank everyone for reading and thanks to ATS for having this forum available for people such as myself. I look forward to your responses.

If you go for the full 'firehose' generally that will alienate people.
If you really want to debate with them, small nuggets of interest and provable facts are effective. If they really are interested they will engage, if not they are probably just having a laugh and I wouldn't bother.
GL

reply to post by sheepslayer247


As for advice on debating the sheep, i would say give up on that one.

The sheep are determined to be sheep regardless of the cost, that is their nature.

If i were you i would try to determine who of those you know are independent minded goats.

Now Goats like us are more worthy of your time, we the goats are autodidacts,independent self learners who question everything and are more stubborn in our ways.

So i would say, separate the goats from the sheep and concentrate on providing the ample evidence to those you have determined are not sheep.

The sheep are a complete waste of time, their job is to obey, period.

I know how you feel because my brother is one of these that has a hard time opening up to the idea that the world isn't what he thinks it is..

He has even witnessed a huge UFO with hundreds of little lights fly right over our city, but the people that witnessed that incident experienced some sort of dampening of memory.. The effect was that they didn't feel like talking much about it afterwards and didn't think much of the incident at all...

That effect has been reported in many ufo cases before, where the witnesses didn't much care, or seem very shocked at seeing something that should have been an adrenaline pumping experience..

I know this is somewhat different than what you are describing, but my brother also doesn't seem to care much about any strange thing since this incident, and getting him to listen about 9-11 and all sorts of odd things like what people present here on ATS has not been easy... My father also witnessed that same thing and was with my brother at the time, and he also seems to have suffered some dampening effect.. He is more open to discussing conspiracies than my brother, but they both share that strange effect like it is preventing them from the natural desire to "know"

One thing I have done that helps me talk to them is finding some really good case of "whatever " and nonchalantly tell them about it and try to interest them enough so they ask questions..

I have a particular friend who absolutely laughs at any conspiracy or odd story and thinks the MSM is always truthful... I can't get 2 words in about something strange before he says "Oh come on get real" and laughs it off as rediculous..

Maybe people have to just wake up on their own somehow..

I would also love to hear some good methods to getting people to listen..This is important I think ... The more people that can start truly thinking outside the watered down pablum they are getting from the main stream the better..

reply to post by sheepslayer247


well my good man ,it seems that building 7 allways works , if it worked for you then use it as a point making tool , let them learn for them selfs ,you cant force your will upon another ,some people do not want to be awaken cause of fear , but let me ask you all this comes down to what ? one would say a NWO Right ? ,but is the NWO really a bad thing ? would it not stop wars ? would it not stop hunger ? ect ....? since your a new awakend mind i would like your thoughts on this ? the fight does not just stop with your awakening ... great post


Nephi

Mr.slayer

I would suggest you lend them some books, say something like, 'Science Was Wrong: Startling Truths About Cures, Theories, and Inventions 'They' Declared Impossible' by Stanton Friedman, as a sideways toe-in, to the world of 'everything is not always as it seems'.

I have found that Stanton's arguments are always well backed up by hard evidence, and are enjoyable to read.
Maybe once they've read that, they might realise that a lot of 'alternative thinkers' are not 'nuts' but very intelligent and articulate people, and hopefully it might lead them into further knowledge seeking.

Good luck. You are fighting the good fight.

Provide information, then leave it up to them. That way you won't alienate people, and you've done your job. If you go beyond what you do know, even if it seems an "obvious" extrapolation, you could make a mistake and hurt your credibility.

If 9/11 comes up and you want to discuss it, you could say "I wonder why Building 7 fell down?" That's it. If things go further and the person is really curious, you could say you understand it was blown up, or something like that. You don't need to say more. After all, you don't know much more than that anyway. At least I don't.

Leave the extrapolation to others, stay firmly grounded in the facts. Some will extrapolate and start to reason about things, some won't, some will but won't talk about it.

Originally posted by Onet Wosix
I would suggest you lend them some books, say something like, 'Science Was Wrong: Startling Truths About Cures, Theories, and Inventions 'They' Declared Impossible' by Stanton Friedman, as a sideways toe-in, to the world of 'everything is not always as it seems'.

this my good man is too much the user would get board very quickly ,my i sugest asking them to explain the falling of building 7 first building to fall from a fire in history ,how about no black boxes were ever found ,thats a first as well , the list goes on my good man ,

i would do it like this ..i would slimply ask them would you like the green pill or the red pill ?

Tip #1: Don't call people sheep. They get defensive and defensive people don't listen.

Tip #2: Don't pretend to be an expert if you're not one. Having read something or done a bit of reading on any given topic doesn't make you an expert on the subject.

Tip #3: Share an interesting fact about something to gain their interest, but don't lecture them. If you are condescending they won't listen and no one likes being lectured.

Tip #4: Just because you believe in a conspiracy doesn't mean it's real. The simplest answer is often the correct one. Ranting and raving just makes you look crazy.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

If you like conspiracies you came to the right site to learn about them. But there is so much information floating around, some people can almost make a conspiracy about nothing.

For instance, when was the last time anyone flew a plane into a high-rise building in New York City?
It wasn’t 9-11.

It was:
October 11th, 2006
reference:

Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle and his flight instructor were killed Wednesday when the 34-year-old ballplayer's plane
crashed into a high-rise apartment building in New York, city and baseball team officials said.
www.cnn.com...

Write that date out on a piece of paper as: “10 11 06”
Now turn the piece of paper upside down. One side of the argument says both zeros count. One side of the argument says those zeros don’t count. But, if we meet in the middle and take agree one zero doesn’t count, then after you turned that piece of paper upside down it reads:
90 11 01
Minus one zero it could read:
9 11 01

see? i told you some people could almost make a conspiracy about nothing (0), and i just sorta did.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
How do I expose a sheep to the world of conspiracies without alienating them in the process?

sometimes the sheep need time alone. sheep aren't always our friends.

want to expose a sheep? easy. show them the fear that blinds them to the facts.

ask them if they are worried about when WWIII will start.

tell them global = world

thank the marketting geniuses our taxes pay for.

remind the sheep that it is called "The GLOBAL War On Terror".

tell them politely that they are about 9 years too late, and they need to catch up, or stop misleading people in an uninformed fashion.

How does one "debate" a sheep when discussing alternative views on historical or current events?

baaa baaa. i'm not sorry for that.

show them facts. explain to them that they are only told the information that conforms to what others need them to believe. period. send them to ATS.

Even with accurate information it is hard to get people to realize the truth, even when it’s staring them in the face. That's the nature of conspiracies I guess.

i forget the title of the thread, but there is a thread in the aliens forum that has three videos in it. very helpful info. the title has the word skeptic in it, but the full title of the thread elludes me at the moment.

edited to add:
The title of the thread is: "A Brief Guid to Skepticism". here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

welcome to ATS, although i'm a little late.

thanks for sharing this with us and asking the questions,
et

[edit on 20-8-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]

[edit on 20-8-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]

If you care about them why don't you teach em instead how to defend themselves from wolves,blind shepherds and self-delusional "sheep"?

reply to post by Nephi1337


After I began to look into conspiracies, the NWO became an obsession of mine. I think it is a very interesting subject. I am against a NWO as it is described in most theories. But I do think a One World Government is inevitable. I wrote a thread on it, check it out.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by alienreality

That effect has been reported in many ufo cases before, where the witnesses didn't much care, or seem very shocked at seeing something that should have been an adrenaline pumping experience..

I know this is somewhat different than what you are describing, but my brother also doesn't seem to care much about any strange thing since this incident, and getting him to listen about 9-11 and all sorts of odd things like what people present here on ATS has not been easy... My father also witnessed that same thing and was with my brother at the time, and he also seems to have suffered some dampening effect.. He is more open to discussing conspiracies than my brother, but they both share that strange effect like it is preventing them from the natural desire to "know"

I guess once a personal experience is suppressed it becomes habit forming. The one time I saw one of those UFO things, I pointed it out to someone else, and we just looked at it, and as they say, no big adrenaline rush about it. The denying of one's own experience in favor of an official story is actually what seems to be what damages a person's curiosity, and that would hold for any suppressed or denied experience. I don't particularly hold to mental altering rays, but look at it psychologically.

For psychological health, we must be willing to trust our own experience, what we see, hear, taste. Putting a thing on a shelf to think about later beats the heck out of denying it ever happened. Simply taking an official explanation that ignores reality is wrecking people, psychologically and spiritually.

[To the OP]

, sometimes official stories change. In 1984, the protagonist broke out of being controlled by remembering a photo that completely exposed the official story of the day as bumpkus. He then trusted his memory.

Get two contradicting official stories, one before a memo was leaked, one after a memo was leaked. Explain that the people who made the first statement had the memo when they made the statement and are now changing the official statement only because they know people have seen the memo too. Therefore the first statement was knowingly a lie by the officials making it.

There are very many examples of that.




[edit on 20-8-2010 by pthena]

Originally posted by Jenna
Tip #1: Don't call people sheep. They get defensive and defensive people don't listen.

star.

i really like what you said there, but sometimes there are instances when telling someone they are a sheep is just true.

i don't condone not being honest with people.

get them on the defense enough and they will become offensive.

if they are offensive, they are less of a sheep.

do they adopt the way of the wolf or the way of the border collie, or perhaps another path?

people should be told when they are too much of a sheep. honesty hurts less than the alternative.


the following are only rhetorical questions, intended to provoke thought and ask yourself the answers:
who makes the rules?
rulers make the rules. (imo)
who follows the rules?
followers follow the rules. (imo)

how many rules/laws are there?

too many to count? to many to learn?
are you still participating in paying law makers to make more laws?
why? think any child born today will live long enough to learn them?

just my 3 1/2 cents,
et

[edit on 20-8-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]

or maybe you could bring up one of these in conversation...

33 conspiracy theories that turned out to be true

www.newworldorderreport.com...

reply to post by Jenna


Well said! I never talk to people in a disrespectful way, or bark at them with my theories/beliefs either. Being rude or condesending does nothing but push people away. So no worries there.

I may say small things to peak people's interests but I always ask them to do their own research, and not to take my word as gospel. They must learn on their own.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
reply to post by Nephi1337

 

After I began to look into conspiracies, the NWO became an obsession of mine. I think it is a very interesting subject. I am against a NWO as it is described in most theories. But I do think a One World Government is inevitable. I wrote a thread on it, check it out.

why are you agenst it?

reply to post by Nephi1337


I am against an NWO that is created to control everything and everyone, whether they "think" its in the best interests of the people or not. The rights of the individual to live life as they see fit is the number freedom we have.

Check out the link I gave earlier, read all the way through it if you have time. I think you would be surprised at what I believe on that issue. I would be glad to discuss it with you more.

reply to post by Esoteric Teacher


A few times I tried to be aggresive when discussing theories, but never does any good. By aggresive I mean that I spit out alot of information to get them interested....but it's always a no go.

I have come to the conclusion that most people could care less if the world was ending because of a natural disaster, or if the black choppers were coming to get them. As long as they can go to the club on the weekends and American Idol is on the boob tube, life is grand.

Its also very hard to have a good conversation about anything with people in my neck of the woods. Most people here are not interested in anything other than smoking pot, playing video games, baby-daddy/mama drama or watching UFC fights. Needless to say ATS is my only outlet to find an intelligent discussion.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
i really like what you said there, but sometimes there are instances when telling someone they are a sheep is just true.

It's not always necessary to tell people what you think of them. I rarely find brutal honesty to be necessary, though it is an excellent way to alienate people. If, for example, I think someone's an idiot because they're convinced something is true when it's not, it isn't necessary for me to call them an idiot to teach them about it or correct whatever it is they are wrong about. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, and people are more likely to discuss things and listen to your point of view if you aren't insulting them.