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We should pay China back.

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posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 05:16 AM
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Hey All,

I completely agree with Muzzleflash.

A debit is a debit, and regardless of the feeling between countries, it should be honoured. If a person has to pay off their credit card, then so too should a country have to pay off it's debits before taking on new ones. Star and flag for the op.

Cheers
Shane




posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 05:17 AM
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It doesn't really matter in the end who is to blame.

It just matters that THIS IS THE WAY IT IS.

And my generation is not going to sit back and screw China.

We will work it off. This creates jobs for us. What everyone wants right?

You said it's 10% of the GDP.

Well we have 10% unemployment (or worse).

There you go.

Two birds, one stone.

Pay em back!



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 05:23 AM
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EDIT - . I WAS WRONG . I APOLOGIZE.

Sorry Folks.

I guess I will just have to bend over and take it up the tailpipe because of our governments spending habbits and other peoples spending habits withmoney they never had.

Now I have to suffer because of stupid people and stupid government.

Dont flame me too hard for deleting and editing this post. =)



[edit on 20-8-2010 by Common Good]



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 05:24 AM
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What China is doing is trying to become the ruler of the world.

In doing so, they are abusing their own people.

And they are providing things that make people ill or kill them.

No thanks to China.



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 05:29 AM
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reply to post by shamus78
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Again, investments are gambles they are not guaranteed to profit.
Now it does behoove the US Government to honor its bonds, or their bonds would lose all value. However that does not mean they have to honor those bonds.

Sometimes when you gamble, you lose.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 05:37 AM
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Originally posted by catwhoknows
What China is doing is trying to become the ruler of the world.

In doing so, they are abusing their own people.

And they are providing things that make people ill or kill them.

No thanks to China.


China is going through it's own type of industrial revolution, the same as Britain in the 1800's, The working conditions in Britain at that time were pretty horrendous. We also wanted to be the rulers of the world at that time, these things helped build our former empire.



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 05:59 AM
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reply to post by defcon5
 





Sometimes when you gamble, you lose.


You shouldn't have to gamble on Americas honour - or any other country. Without honour you are nothing.

Cheers
Shane



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 05:59 AM
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Source-www.defeatthedebt.com...

How Much?Our national debt is more than $13 trillion.

That is how much the United States has borrowed, and how much we have to pay interest on. To put $13 trillion in perspective, our national debt is larger than the total economies of China, the United Kingdom, and Australia combined.

The combined gross domestic products of China, the United Kingdom, and Australia, as estimated by the International Monetary Fund in 2008, are $10.89 trillion.

And under current policies, our national debt will continue to grow by hundreds of billions every year.

According to the Congressional Budget Office, the national debt held by the public will grow by more than $9 trillion over the next decade, to more than $20 trillion total.

This year, the United States will accumulate over $3.5 billion in new debt each and every day. That’s more than $2 million per minute.

According the Associated Press in May of 2010, the Treasury Department has said the large financial firms that handle our national debt are predicting the federal deficit for 2010 to reach $1.38 trillion. That means that every day, the government will accumulate an average of $2,478,079,632.02 in additional debt. [$1.38 trillion / 365 = $3,780,821,917.80 (approx. $3.8 billion per day)].

Accordingly, more than $150 million of debt is being accumulated every hour. [$3,780,821,917.80 / (24 hours) = $157,534,246.57] And every minute, the U.S. government accumulates approximately $2.6 million in additional debt. [$157,534,246.57/ (60 minutes) = $2,625,570.77] That’s $43,759.51 a second. [$2,625,570.77 / (60 seconds) = $43,759.51]


The Treasury Department estimates that our debt to China is approximately $843 billion. That is over $10,000 in debt for the average American family.[Prove it…] According to the US Census Bureau, there are approximately 78 million families in the US in 2010. Since the US owes $843 billion to China, that means [$843 billion / 78 million families] that each family’s share is $10,807.69.

Over the course of the next year, the government will borrow approximately $2.63 million every minute. That’s the equivalent of 8,752 flat screen HDTVs it cannot afford.[Prove it…] Assuming that the rate of debt accumulation is constant, the U.S. government will accumulate approximately $2.6 million in additional debt every minute. According to a major electronics retail chain, a 26 inch LCD HDTV costs about $300.00 ($299.99) which adds up to 8,752 TVs for the $2.62 million of new debt per minute. [$2,625,570.77 / $299.99 = 8,752]

From 2010 to 2020, the Congressional Budget Office estimates the cumulative deficit will be over $9 trillion. This means that over the next decade, more than $9 trillion will be added to our existing national debt, creating a total debt of more than $20 trillion.
According to the January 2010 Congressional Budget Office report, the federal budget deficit in 2009 was $1.4 trillion (9.9% of GDP). The 2010 deficit under proposed policies is projected to be $1.5 trillion (10.3% of GDP). These are the largest deficits relative to GDP since 1945.
From 2008 to 2009, public debt rose from 41% of GDP to 53% of GDP—$7.5 trillion at the end of 2009). According to the March 2010 CBO report, under proposed policies, public debt will rise to 90% of GDP by 2020, equaling approximately $20 trillion.
About $4.4 trillion of the total debt is money that the government has borrowed from itself, by writing IOUs for huge sums taken from Social Security and Medicare surpluses.
In July of 2009, the United States paid more than $19 billion in interest on the public debt [$19,812,486,187.83, Office of the Public Debt]. In 2009, according to the CBO, $187 billion of taxpayer funds were used just to pay interest on the debt—not to pay off the debt, just to pay interest on it.
Every American worker’s share of the national debt is more than $80,000.[Prove it...] The Bureau of Labor Statistics reports that the American civilian labor force was 153,910,000 in March 2010. Each of these U.S. workers’ share of the $13.2 trillion national debt is $85,764.40.

According to the Department of the Treasury, foreign holders of our national debt are owed a combined total of about $4 trillion (June 2010).
As reported by the Treasury Department, the top ten countries and entities holding U.S. debt are: Japan, China, the United Kingdom, Oil Exporters, Caribbean Banking Centers, Brazil, Hong Kong, Russia, Luxembourg, and Taiwan.

Source-www.defeatthedebt.com...


YEA..... Good luck with paying them back. Might as well strap on the combat boots and start taking from others cause theres no way in hell we will be able to pay that back, especially with the spendingpractices in Washington these days.

Edit-



[edit on 20-8-2010 by Common Good]



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 06:11 AM
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Originally posted by Common Good

YEA..... Good luck with paying them back. Might as well strap on the combat boots and start taking from others cause theres no way in hell we will be able to pay that back, especially with the spendingpractices in Washington these days.

Edit-



[edit on 20-8-2010 by Common Good]


That is the problem I would like my children to avoid.

War.

How can we use those resources when we are all dead anyway?

No point fighting over it anymore. Things have escalated too far.



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 06:19 AM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


Well, can you afford to pay China 10 gs out of your own pocket?
(And I dont mean that sarcastically)

Do you think we are really going to pay it back? I dont.

And its notlike we the people have a choice to go to war or not, we are not the onespulling the strings. All we can do is sit back and bitch and moan, unless we stop the madness somehow.



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 06:24 AM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


Paying off debts aren't going to stop wars. China is not our friend. China is China's friend.

The only reason the animosity that exists between us and them is kept so below the surface is because our economic fates are tied. If we go they follow and vice versa. But to think we are happy tree house pals is naive and ignorant.

Your children are going to die some day and that might be due to a war. Why? Because conflict is a part of nature. Hawks kill and eat squirrels, sharks eat baby seals, and man goes to war. Even you wanting to deprive people of the ability to go to war can cause one. You can't escape it.



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 06:29 AM
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reply to post by AdAbsurdum
 


And this is why we are strategically placed all over the world.

something IS going to happen,sometime soon, and that is NOT fear mongering.



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 06:31 AM
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Well, start a savings account, and rather then spend millions and billions on the military, invest it and pay off debits.

My Mother always thought me the best way to achieve anything is to save for it.

Cheers
Shane



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 08:05 AM
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i dont think we owe them spit.

they choose to buy up our debt, and they got all the jobs. until i see some manufacturing positions open in the US, i will have no sympathy for china.

they make all our goods, and then are paid for it. its the same argument as the "undocumented workers" from mexico, everybody assumes they are doing jobs us americans simply do not want. which is a load of crap, ill take a factory or farm job anyday of the week, show me where i sign up.



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 08:33 AM
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In order to defeat China the US would have to engage in a massive nuclear first-strike.

We are talking about a thousand nukes, along with conventional weapons and unknown space-based weapons.

And when the Chinese subs would find out what happened the USA would get nuked in retaliation.

What a horrible messy business.


[edit on 20-8-2010 by Exuberant1]



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 09:19 AM
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The debt is not mine to pay, its the US Governments. They quit listening to us a long time ago. we will gladly hand over the corrupt politicians.



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 10:05 AM
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Eventually sadly, the US government (We the People) will have to pay back all these debts. It's absolute.

Unless of course we go to plan B.

Indict the Federal Reserve under RICO, and dismantle them. Then, we can issue our own currency, the debt that is owed would be owed to the FED and not to the American people.



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 11:06 AM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash
America WILL NOT lose the place of leading the world.
[edit on 20-8-2010 by muzzleflash]




Of course we should pay them back.
And yes, pay back the rest of the world what we owe them. Not what the apologists and our enemies would claim is owed.

Screw leading the rest of the world. Let them take care of things for a change. Why do we need to lead anybody? Our leaders only send us further into debt.

No more global police.

No more military forces for the rest of the planet.

No more international funding of our enemies.

No more UN on US soil or money to finance them. (which is also very similar to not funding our enemies)

No more hundreds of billions of dollars a year in foriegn aid

No US tax dollars being spent on foriegn oil. We have our own.

No More intervening in the affairs of other nations be it political, monetary, military or otherwise.

This will leave the US money to actually take care of the citizens.

The imports will be taxed equitably with the agreements made between the US and country of origin.

Imports from American companies who ship jobs offshore will be taxed triple.

Immigrants will only be allowed on a direct need quota as many other countries do.

If they don't have a marketable skill that is in demand and the means to support themselves then they won't be allowed in.

Oh yeah, remember the military that was wasting several hundred billion a year everywhere but the US? It will be guarding the border.

The rest of the world can take care of themselves. They are all capable of doing so without us.


Yeah.

Let's get those debts paid off as soon as we can.



[edit on 20-8-2010 by badgerprints]



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 01:51 PM
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If you are a 14th amendment citizen, by all means pay your debt.

2nd.



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 02:31 PM
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Simple math. China consumes 10 million barrels of oil a day.

365 days/year X 85 $ /barrel X 10,000,000 barrels per /day

310 Billion dollars of oil per year. so that would be 2.5 years worth of oil.

Do we owe them....NO let the FED pay back their own gambling/ racketeering debt in OIL.




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