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We should pay China back.

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posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 04:14 AM
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I know this is a political issue that many people will disagree with. But I have been thinking about it, and I am pretty certain it's the right choice now.

I had this idea after listening to Ron Paul talking about honesty and paying back debts, before we can truly get out of the hole we are in. I heard him say it a long time ago but the idea took awhile to coalesce. I know many people doubt his integrity, as we do any politician, but these points make a lot of sense to me.

China works hard for us Westerners, they have been breaking their backs to give us all kinds of things for years.

I think a Chinese person is worth what a American or anyone is. Any human being. They are good people.

A Chinese person working hard all day IN OUR PLACE so that we could live life easier, is a very noble person. I have a great respect for such a friendly nation to slave away all day for us.

We should pay our debts back to China. And to other nations we have pillaged. All throughout the world we owe many people a debt. There are "sweat shops" everywhere. And people die for their land and resources. I know we have paid a lot into various nations to build them up (usually after we blow them up, but not always).

Africa, Asia, South America these lands have been our workers. And we took their resources.

This creates a HUGE dilemma for the entire world. We have two choices now.

Either way PAY THEM BACK, like we SHOULD, which is the RIGHT thing to do.

Or we War with them. I know a lot of you may think thats cool, but it's not. War between China and NATO is apocalypse. Many people will die of all nations. Even Russia will probably hit us both just for starting it. It would be the end of the common era, essentially.

But this doesn't have to happen. We just need to pay our debts to those whom have given up so much for us to live such wealthy lives.

The way I see it, this is the most important political issue of all.

Paying China back. And our other debtors.

Once America is out of debt, we can lead the example. And end our wars.

Otherwise, we will War with China. And it will get ugly, for everyone on Earth. Being we live in a globalized economy now, no one will have a good day that for sure.

I know a lot of my fellow Americans will disagree. But it will only show what the REAL problem is with this system.

Our good friend China gave us a very kind Loan. Countless millions of them work everyday, and it makes our life real cozy. Why would we destroy them for this? Why would war make ANY sense???

I have a whole lot more ideas I would want to discuss but I'll try to just keep it at this one simple aspect for now. Pay China back. Set an example of GOOD for once. Show the world we have some value left. CMON!!!

I know America wants to get back to work. I know it. I know we learned our lesson, well, a lot of us have for sure.

We owe it not only to ourselves, and our posterity, but we also owe it to those whom have sacrificed so much for our well-being.

This will turn the whole "boat" around. It will reverse our direction. Our course to utter failure as a nation. A global domino effect would cause the collapse of modern society as we know it.

I think this is where the line has been drawn for all of us. As nations. As humans.
Our future.

America WILL NOT lose the place of leading the world. In FACT the world would LOVE for us to take this course. This is what we all want deep down inside as people everywhere. For America to pay China back as a show of good fellowship.

If we do not pay China back, the world WILL not follow us. They will war with us. There will be NO WINNERS in that war.

Paying them back is the ONLY way to remain the beacon of Justice and Freedom we claim to be so often. (America has A LOT of debts!)

Everyone wants those jobs back right? Well lets get to work and pay our buddies in the East back. That is how you build trust and good global partners. And a better future for us all!


And while were at it, lets forgive the debts some others owe us. Let's get them off the hook and see what happens after that!

I know deep inside this is the real America that everyone loves. An honest one that pays their buddies back. Not some jerk that steals and lies.

Thats the direction I want to see America lead us all.


Yeah I know they wouldn't pay us back if they were in charge. So what. Why should we do it to them? Let's set an example, we are the "Superpower" here right??

[edit on 20-8-2010 by muzzleflash]




posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 04:22 AM
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You post didn't make me go all warm and cosy

So here's the question:

How do you believe we should pay back China for sending poisoned pet food which killed and sickened people's pets ?

And how do you believe we should pay back China for the melamine in the milk ?

How do you think we should repay China for making rip-off copies of pharmaceuticals which cost Western researchers millions of dollars to develop ?

How do you believe we should repay China for ripping off videos, CDs, fashion, cosmetics, etc. etc. which not only push up the price of the the genuine article but also cost Western manufacturers and designers billions of dollar annually

And finally, how do you believe we should repay China for taking millions of jobs from the West ?



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 04:25 AM
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I didn't know America had the money to pay back China...
Maybe Americans will have to work in their own sweat shops and under the same working conditions and pay as those in the countries you mentioned. All workers are now in competition with the workers of the 3rd world, who will work in much worse conditions and for a couple of dollars a week.



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 04:33 AM
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Name an industry that is perfect and doesn't have contaminations due to safety mistakes.

And they didn't take our jobs, our corporations outsourced them.

So Americans could do better jobs, and the menial stuff would go to someone else.

But because our education system is screwed, large portions of the population are on welfare, and not created new jobs for each other like they used to be.

We need to get off our rears, create some new future industry before the rest of the world leaves us in the dust. A service economy is not how we stay ahead globally and technologically.

Through reworking our economic system we could easily improve education and and produce far more entrepreneurs, inventors, etc. Just like in the past. But better than ever before.

By getting back to work we will pay them back. And America has great ingenuity and this is no task our nation cannot accomplish. We can do anything right? Isn't that what the Land of Freedom is about? Self starters, hard workers, people who can create new ways of business and new technologies??

What is our history? Everyone knows things are backwards.

This is how we reverse the flow, I think.

And BTW, I totally Expected that type of response.

"We don't owe China anything". Thats exactly what I expect from 99% of the population. Bring up all these industrial accidents. And forget the part where the Chinese government punished individuals responsible with the Death Penalty for it?

Accidents happen. We need to learn to forgive. Many people in Asia were hurt by those industrial accidents.

We are suppose to be setting an example of good for the world to follow right?

Why would anyone NOT want to pay them back???

That means we have to work it off. No more welfare.



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 04:35 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


No offense intended here, but places like China choose to have sweatshops in order to undercut US manufacturers and generate their own economies. If they wanted to put in laws to prevent sweatshop labor, they could easily do so. The result would be the cost of goods going up, clients that currently buy products from China going else where, China's economy crashing, and your cost of living increasing. Things like what you have written are truely fine and noble, but they are also unrealistic and naive.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 04:38 AM
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Originally posted by woodwardjnr
I didn't know America had the money to pay back China...
Maybe Americans will have to work in their own sweat shops and under the same working conditions and pay as those in the countries you mentioned. All workers are now in competition with the workers of the 3rd world, who will work in much worse conditions and for a couple of dollars a week.





America cannot compete at that. We will lose.

We only have one choice and that is future industries. Inventiveness and entrepreneurial job creation.

Not a bail out. But a job.

Education is the issue here. We have been dumbed down into lazy people now, most of us. The ones who work hard already are paying our current interest. They deserve some mad respect for that.

So why does the government pass laws that favor globalist corporations and hurt small business so much? Thats a good question.

The only way out of this is with small business IMHO.

Mega-Corporations are too "in the box" style thinking. They will not come up with the ideas that will get us out of this. They outsourced everything in the first place. They got us into this!

Ahhh but we didn't mind at all. It made our lives better. Nothing wrong with that. Let's make China's life better as a response.



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 04:38 AM
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yes we should pay what we owe ,But first lets stop handing money to the ones standing at our shors holding a sign (will work for beer)
If we do that then we could pay off what we owe easly.
here is the amount of money we GAVE away to all thouse countrys hold out there hands saying sir can i have more please.
ps these number are in millions/
In 2006 the US Govt amounts were (in millions):
This is just money we GAVE away just like when you give that bum a 1 to buy his beer/
Israel 2520 thats million 2520 million which is 2.5 billion
Egypt 1795 1.7 billion
Columbia 558
Jordan 461
Pakistan 698
Peru 133
Indonesia 158
Kenya 213
Bolivia 122
Ukraine 115
India 94
Haiti 163
Russia 52
Ethiopia 145
West Bank/Gaza 150
Liberia 89
Bnagladesh 49
Bosnia 51



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 04:39 AM
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Originally posted by defcon5

No offense intended here, but places like China choose to have sweatshops in order to undercut US manufacturers and generate their own economies. If they wanted to put in laws to prevent sweatshop labor, they could easily do so. The result would be the cost of goods going up, clients that currently buy products from China going else where, China's economy crashing, and your cost of living increasing. Things like what you have written are truely fine and noble, but they are also unrealistic and naive.


And the inevitable war that comes with saying "bla bla bla we don't owe you for that debt China".

That sure is real realistic and wise huh?

Who is being unrealistic and naive here?



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 04:40 AM
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Yes because China are soooo alturistic



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 04:45 AM
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Originally posted by xxcalbier
yes we should pay what we owe ,But first lets stop handing money to the ones standing at our shors holding a sign (will work for beer)
If we do that then we could pay off what we owe easly.
here is the amount of money we GAVE away to all thouse countrys hold out there hands saying sir can i have more please.
ps these number are in millions/
In 2006 the US Govt amounts were (in millions):
This is just money we GAVE away just like when you give that bum a 1 to buy his beer/
Israel 2520 thats million 2520 million which is 2.5 billion
Egypt 1795 1.7 billion
Columbia 558
Jordan 461
Pakistan 698
Peru 133
Indonesia 158
Kenya 213
Bolivia 122
Ukraine 115
India 94
Haiti 163
Russia 52
Ethiopia 145
West Bank/Gaza 150
Liberia 89
Bnagladesh 49
Bosnia 51


We are being used by globalists to create a global empire. Most all of those nations were either overthrown by Western Intelligence Operations, or we had some form of military incursion there.

Many of those nations send a lot of their natural resources and labor profits to our Western nations.

The global empire is not fair right. But we could make it fair.

And it would save our nation from the hate that is growing everywhere. Which will lead to many many wars.

Thats not what I want for my kids.

If we found what had been stolen from us by the globalists, we would probably be able to pay everyone back. Especially China. And still have a lot left over.

Thats a good post xxcal, thanks for bringing that up.


It shows how the Globalists are using America for Empire.



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 04:47 AM
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Originally posted by Yissachar1
Yes because China are soooo alturistic


I know Europeans will not like this idea either.

For the same reasons Americans will not like it.

Because we all owe a lot to the rest of the world. Debt.



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 04:48 AM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

The debt that you seem to be mentioning above is Corporate Dept, not US debt. All of those Corporations that you seem to feel make up evil America, are internationally held and traded corporations. The days of certain big businesses being solely US entities has long since past. The only US debt that the US as a nation owes to China is for bonds that China willing chose to invest in hoping to make money off the US national debt. We certainly did not force China to buy our bonds any more then we twist their arms to facilitate the running of sweatshops.

As a matter of fact, there are no Chinese resources that I am aware of which either the US or Corporate America has raided from China. China uses products sold to the US as a dumping ground for all kinds of toxic chemicals that they have bought from around the globe to dispose of. Hence the pet food mentioned above, Chinese drywall, lead paint, etc.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



[edit on 8/20/2010 by defcon5]



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 04:50 AM
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I never said "evil America". That shows the double think everyone has now IMHO.

I said America was GREAT. And we are the leaders of GOOD.

And that paying China back PROVES that.

But not paying them back, makes America pretty bad looking, Yes.

No one will ever loan to us again. And it will be just war war war. Till the machine breaks itself.



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 04:51 AM
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Originally posted by defcon5


As a matter of fact, there are no Chinese resources that I am aware of which either the US or Corporate America has raided from China.
[edit on 8/20/2010 by defcon5]


Labor.

Thats the most valuable resource of all. Our very lives.



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 04:53 AM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Ok, lets say we are talking about a sweatshop used by Walmart for example. Walmart is not property of the United States Government, it is not property of the People of the United States, it is a freely traded stock on the market to anyone who whishes to buy said stock. I will bet you that just as many Chinese own stock in Walmart then Americans.

That said, what do we owe them for?

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 04:57 AM
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Originally posted by Yissachar1
Yes because China are soooo alturistic


It's not about being alturistic. China has done what is best for it's own country and has been successful in bringing large amounts of its population out of poverty.

We in the west cant have it both ways. If we want cheap goods for our consumer society then we have to expect business's to find the cheapest option of producing their goods. if that means having their products built in China rather than in their home countries and out sourcing the work then thats what will happen.

Why do governments allow this?, because the corporations own the governments and the decisions are made on the basis of "profits" rather than what is good for the people who voted them into their positions.

China is now in a position where it can manufacture all the things the world needs.

You may not like the Chinese system of state capitalism, but it is proving successful for them.



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 05:01 AM
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Well, we elected representatives.

Those representatives, often claim Corporations are people too. And the have voices as well.

We signed legal documents with China for loans through our Federal Reserve system. They have our bonds. We must pay them in full. Everyone else as well.

If you didn't want it this way, maybe you should have done something 20years ago to prevent this?

We the younger generation is born into this. We have to pay this debt now. See what we are left with?????

But we are good, and will set this right. We will pay our good friends back.

The older generations who played into this system and elected this government and supported it, cannot live forever. And they will be gone by the time us younger folks have to bust rear for the next 30 or 40 years to even this out.

Those Lobbyists represent REAL Americans. And many of you people voted for the politicians who parrot this ideal.

Almost all politicians accept $ from Corporate lobbyists.

Tell em Hillary.


Hey at least shes honest about this one issue. This is what the prior generations have voted for.

So yes, this debt is ours.

[edit on 20-8-2010 by muzzleflash]

[edit on 20-8-2010 by muzzleflash]



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 05:12 AM
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reply to post by woodwardjnr
 

Yes China thank you for all of your cheaply produced tat that we dont need... Also thank you for ruining my countries manufacturing base by buying it all up then moving it to china, putting many hard working brits on the dole.. Yes that cheaply produced tat you export that we stupidly bought has served as means of you being able to buy up whole industries in the west and even most of the ports on the east coast of America...

They have done very well out of us so dont be surprised with my lack of enthusiasm.


[edit on 20-8-2010 by Yissachar1]



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 05:13 AM
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When the rest of the world pays back the trillions we have handed
out we can pay our debts many times over.

China's bond holdings are less than 10% of GDP, they can
easily be paid if that is the dent your referring to.

As to the US ever competing with dissident political prisoner slave labor
it will require Rockefeller's dream coming true and the US becoming
a model society like he feels China is at this time.

To be honest if you ran a chinese plant here the way they do there
it would be illegal in the US.

If foreign goods are made in a manner that would be illegal
here then by TRUE fair trade they should be banned.

Period.

You use political prisoner labor slaves to make goods to ship
to the US then those goods are banned.

End of story.

In true fair trade there is an equal playing field.

Slavery is not part of that.



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 05:13 AM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

You are blaming mom and pop US citizen for something that Corporations have done, not the US public at large. You can bet, however, that mom and pop American will be left holding the check when the dinner is over.

As to the bonds…
No one forced them to invest in our bonds. Bonds are a risk, as is any investment. The person who buys those bonds knowingly assumes the risks of doing so. Any type of investment is nothing more then gambling, and just like playing poker, sometimes you win and sometimes you don’t. What you are proposing is the same is holding a casino accountable because you went there and blew your entire paycheck one evening.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



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