My chance to ask physics genius a question

MY girlfriend suggested that I just print ou this thread and give it to him, maybe I will do that just for fun

MY girlfriend suggested that I just print out this thread and give it to him, maybe I will do that just for fun

Originally posted by davespanners
MY girlfriend suggested that I just print out this thread and give it to him, maybe I will do that just for fun

Great, I was just going to suggest you tell him about the intellectual discussions on ATS. I wonder, if mini-black holes will lead to time travel.

I am back from my meeting.

He was one of the friendliest people I have ever met, and we talked for about an hour about lots of things.

I did ask him about the ice cube thing, but he said that he didn't have a clue what I was talking about

I asked him generally about what he did, and what he was researching and he said, part of what he was studying is how the universe survived past a few seconds after the big bang, and even if the big bang theory was correct in the first place, which he wasn't totally convinced about.

He also said that he is involved in trying to explain what dark matter is, if it exists, and if we have a basic misunderstanding of gravity, a theory he put forward is that there are one or two more dimensions in which gravity is working, but that they are hidden from us because they only operate in the quantum scale, he described them as being like tiny tightly coiled spirals.
I asked him what these dimensions might contain and he said that he had no idea, when I suggested that they may contain cats because they like small spaces he said "possibly, but it would be impossible to tell if the cats were dead or alive"

I also asked him if he could think of any practical application for the work that he was doing, and he said "none at all" at least not for a couple of hundred years.

Thats about all I can remember from the physics side of the conversation, on the whole he was just a really funny and intelligent guy.

Originally posted by davespanners
I asked him what these dimensions might contain and he said that he had no idea, when I suggested that they may contain cats because they like small spaces he said "possibly, but it would be impossible to tell if the cats were dead or alive"

Best.
Quote.
EVER

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
I don't know why a guy working at CERN would know any more about the Mpemba effect than a guy running an ice cream shop, he might know less about it unless he's researched it for some reason..

Clairvoyance, or a lucky guess?

Originally posted by davespanners
I did ask him about the ice cube thing, but he said that he didn't have a clue what I was talking about

Maybe a lucky guess!

He also said that he is involved in trying to explain what dark matter is, if it exists,

Is the "If it exists" phrase his? If so, it would be nice for the people on ATS who claim that scientists are lying to us about dark matter, would find out that physicists aren't even sure if it exists! SOMETHING has to explain the anomalous observations, so I guess if nobody has figured out the explanation yet, we can throw extra dimensions up on the table along with all the other ideas of what might be causing them. The only problem I see with this explanation is, I thought the extra dimensions were on small scales and affected small scales, but dark matter affects the rotational speed of galaxies which can be 100,000 light years across, not exactly a small scale!?

Anyway, thanks for the update, I'm sure he was glad to get his wallet back and it sounds like you enjoyed meeting him even if he didn't solve the Mpemba effect for us!

Yes it's from him, I think from googling that he was talking about quantum gravity, which has a wiki page here

reply to post by Arbitrageur

The only problem I see with this explanation is, I thought the extra dimensions were on small scales and affected small scales, but dark matter affects the rotational speed of galaxies which can be 100,000 light years across, not exactly a small scale!?

A dimension is merely the extension of space in a particular direction. It may be regarded as infinite. The 'extra' dimensions of string theory are said to be 'invisible' because they are 'curled up', but they are still infinite.

Simple way to imagine it: you are an ant crawling along an endless thread wrapped about a spindle. Imagine two points on the thread a hundred yards, or light-years, apart. If you stayed on the thread, you'd have to crawl a hundred yards (or light-years) to reach one point from the other. But if you stopped crawling along the thread and crawled across the spindle instead, you might reach it in a couple of inches.

The seven or eight extra dimensions of string theory are like that. They are not a 'somewhere else' into which people can somehow travel, like in the old Twilight Zone TV shows: all objects in spacetime, including you and I, occupy all ten or eleven dimensions. It's just that we are fixed in our positions along them, and are limited in our travels to only three directions (dimensions) of space and one of time.

Pardon me if the explanation seems unnecessary to you, Arbitrageur. I took your post as an opportunity to put right a common misconception about what a dimension is. A dimension isn't a 'place'; it's a direction.

By the way, OP, if it isn't against your own inclinations or the T&C, would you be so kind as to post the name of this interesting chap? Many thanks.

reply to post by Astyanax


Thank you. You managed to put my thoughts of what a dimension is into words that make sense. That helps me grasp the concept much better, which ofcourse leads to other things making more sense.

Very interesting and entertaining thread! S&F

Originally posted by Astyanax
The seven or eight extra dimensions of string theory are like that. They are not a 'somewhere else' into which people can somehow travel, like in the old Twilight Zone TV shows: all objects in spacetime, including you and I, occupy all ten or eleven dimensions. It's just that we are fixed in our positions along them, and are limited in our travels to only three directions (dimensions) of space and one of time.

Matter on a quantum scale operates in discrete quanta, meaning they can change energy levels from one level to another level without any energy level in between (the difference being a quantum amount of energy) But just because our atoms can do that, doesn't mean we can do that. In other words, we can't accelerate from 1KPH to 2KPH without traveling at velocities in between. And the quanta are so small on a human scale they seem insignificant to us in our models of how a car accelerates, for example.

So when the physics genius says:

Originally posted by davespanners
he is involved in trying to explain what dark matter is, if it exists, and if we have a basic misunderstanding of gravity, a theory he put forward is that there are one or two more dimensions in which gravity is working, but that they are hidden from us because they only operate in the quantum scale, he described them as being like tiny tightly coiled spirals.

Are you saying davespanners misinterpreted what he said about the extra dimensions only operating in the quantum scale? Even if you travel an infinite distance on a quantum scale, how far is that on the scale of humans, the solar system, or the galaxy?

Or is it like the example I gave of the quantum energy increase, where maybe a car really does accelerate in discrete quantum energy levels but they are so small as to be normally undetectable when measuring a car's acceleration?

Personally I don't think the description of extra dimensions in general necessarily needs to be restrictive in size, and mathematically extra dimensions can exist on scales larger than a quantum scale. But when the statement about the extra dimensions is prefaced by saying they "only operate in the quantum scale" it becomes a little harder to understand how this type of explanation for dark matter would explain observations of galaxy rotation. In fact it seems to me like we hare having a hard time observing the effects of dark matter on the scale of our own solar system, so I'm having trouble understanding how an effect which occurs only on a quantum scale can not be observed on the scale of our solar system, yet be observed on the scale of a galaxy?

Also, I would have nothing against string theorists if they called themselves mathematicians, but the fact that they call themselves physicists means I expect to see proof of their theories sooner or later and how long have they been speculating without proof, 40 years? Sorry for the rant but I think it's about time to move string theorists from the physics department to the mathematics department unless they come up with some proof, and soon. If they come up with some proof 100 years from now they can always be moved back to the physics department at that time.

reply to post by Astyanax


Thanks for explaining things better then I did (or could).

I'm not inclined to post his name, not really sure why but it doesn't feel right to do so. He has a rather distinctive name, and don't want him to be bombarded with emails that he doesn't want.

I think I might be meeting up with him again when he is in London next, so I might be able to ask some more interesting things then.

[edit on 17-8-2010 by davespanners]

Originally posted by LightFantastic
reply to post by davespanners

 

Instead of asking him questions, you could just ask your questions to one of the ATS members that work for CERN such as BhuddaSystem.

If he doesnt know I'm sure he knows someone who will.


[edit on 12/8/2010 by LightFantastic]

Because for one BhuddaSystems is a fraud, has been proven to have very little understanding of High Energy Physics and Quantum mechanics.

And for two who knows who you are actually talking with here or if the info is right or wrong... The key to find any answer to any question is and shall always be.... Do your Own research

Peace Out,

Korg.

Doh!

[edit on 17/8/2010 by LightFantastic]

Originally posted by LightFantastic
reply to post by davespanners

 

We'll never guess "who i ad in the back of my cab".

That's sick man

Taxi rapist may have attacked more than 100



Korg.

Gave up posting from my phone

[edit on 17/8/2010 by LightFantastic]

good goin man! you did better then i expected. And i thought you were gonna get schooled... (to the game)



three thumbs up for intelligent discourse with genius

reply to post by davespanners


ITS Michio Kaku! xD I would love to be able to sit with him and discuss physics... Michio call me! *got yelled at for putting phone number*

So you want to ask a genius a question on an understanding level of ingeniousity?

Basically you can only understand an answer to the question your asking explained into simplicity to YOUR own understanding ability. Would it not be better that the Genious ask you a question and then he offer's a solution?

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Are you saying davespanners misinterpreted what he said about the extra dimensions only operating in the quantum scale? Even if you travel an infinite distance on a quantum scale, how far is that on the scale of humans, the solar system, or the galaxy?

Infinity is infinity, on any scale. In the real world, finite distances may be physically equivalent to infinity (in classical optics, an infinitely distant light source is simply one from which effectively parallel rays are observed). Physically speaking, infinity isn't necessarily infinite vastness. The boundary of a Mandelbrot set is infinite in length but is contained within a finite two-dimensional space.

When the statement about the extra dimensions is prefaced by saying they "only operate in the quantum scale" it becomes a little harder to understand how this type of explanation for dark matter would explain observations of galaxy rotation.

The rotation speed of galaxies is higher than can be accounted for by the gravitational effect of the aggregate mass of all the visible matter in them. This implies that they are more massive than they look, from whence comes the idea that they contain 'dark matter', invisible matter that accounts for their missing mass.

I speculate that davespanner's physicist friend is suggesting something like this:

There is no dark matter; instead, there is an unobserved gravitational force generated by observed mass that accounts for the rotation. This 'supplementary' gravitational force operates in dimensions that don't exist in the Einsteinian model.

If this 'added gravity' acted at 'classical' distances, we might observe the effect of it anyway; gravity in normal spacetime might be stronger than it is presently (the gravitational constant would be higher). The reason we do not see this is because the force only acts over very tiny distances--quantum distances--in dimensions we have no freedom to observe. It can exert appreciable force only under conditions when matter is greatly compressed, or in particle collisions, or other circumstances where subatomic particles are brought into close contact. Thus, white dwarfs, black holes and so on may be punching above their weight, gravitationally speaking. This could, perhaps, be the explanation of the unexpectedly fast rotation of galaxies.

The above speculations would probably go down better with a pinch of salt.

*

Originally posted by Korg Trinity
BhuddaSystems is a fraud, has been proven to have very little understanding of High Energy Physics and Quantum mechanics.

Could you show us the proof that BuddhaSystem--at least spell the chap's name right--is an ignorant fraud?

Deny ignorance.

*

Originally posted by DClairvoyant
So you want to ask a genius a question on an understanding level of ingeniousity?

Basically you can only understand an answer to the question your asking explained into simplicity to YOUR own understanding ability. Would it not be better that the Genious ask you a question and then he offer's a solution?

You're too late, genius. Question asked, answered and now being discussed on the thread.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
I don't know why a guy working at CERN would know any more about the Mpemba effect than a guy running an ice cream shop, he might know less about it unless he's researched it for some reason..

Clairvoyance, or a lucky guess?

Originally posted by davespanners
I did ask him about the ice cube thing, but he said that he didn't have a clue what I was talking about

Maybe a lucky guess!

I asked this question because it is basic physics, most people can have a go at answering it and professional physicists usually think they can come up with the answer. There have been numerous answers given over the last few thousand years from physicists from all areas of specialisation but no definitive answers.

To say that any professional physicist wouldnt be able to have a go at answering this question is akin to saying a mechanic that specialises in ECUs wouldnt be able to work out how to remove a wheel. I suspect this particular physicist somehow hadnt heard of the effect and wanted to check it was true before commenting.

The experiment demonstrates how difficult it can be to deduce the real answer in even the simplest of experiments unless all the variables are known and taken into account.