When We Leave Afghanistan?

I guess are best hope is that we can stableize the area to eventually start truly Americanizing them.

Mc Donalds

Wal Mart

Unemployment checks

Beer

and woman who are not wearing robes over 99% of there body

Once they go American they wont want to go back.

The troops are being replaced by mercenaries. We are not leaving. The Taliban and everybody else in Afghanistan will shoot any foreigner now as they are fed up with being invaded. I would too. The warlords will rule no matter how many we kill.

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Blaine91555

 

Keep dying and killing, I don't care, as long as you learned your lesson.

Wait, wait, did you learn your lesson after Vietnam?

Sorry right after I posted this I got called away.

Oozy Hi,

The lesson I referred to was once you are committed, if you cut and run (retreat) the innocent locals pay with their lives, in numbers far greater than the toll from the war.

This is not political. This is a right or wrong issue. We walk, lots of innocent people die when the bad guys take over again. I can't imagine how horrible it must be to be ruled by men as evil as those in the Taliban. Look at what they did to those Aid Workers they just butchered for no reason. Treating women like dirt under their feet. These are bad, bad people.

On top of that the Warlords and Druglords move right back into place.

The citizens are victims. It seems to me it demands we not withdraw until its stable enough to give the citizens a fighting chance. Even if it does take more years.

reply to post by vermonster


Sorry you had not heard about the slaughter of the Aid Workers by the Taliban. Cant really speak to that.

Not really what I'm fishing for. I do agree that to protect the civilians from a slaughter we would have to stay for many years.

I was hoping for more of a discussion on the rights and wrongs of this. No matter how we feel about going in to begin with, this issue of what happens when we leave is for real to many people. I used Vietnam because what happened is the world turned its back while the slaughtered had no voice. We were wrong to exit how we did. It cost a huge number of lives. Handing those people over to the enemy was worse than joining in their civil war in the first place.

I don't hear any discussion of this to speak of and its very important; if innocent lives are important. I hear everyone wanting the troops to pull out, but almost never do they consider all sides of that issue.

we wont be leaving as long as theres opium,pipelines and vast mineral deposits.
we wont be leaving iraq either and we'll go on to iran ..we'll have bases in every nook and crany eventually. Der Homeland Uber Alles!

reply to post by Blaine91555

I can't imagine how horrible it must be to be ruled by men as evil as those in the Taliban. Look at what they did to those Aid Workers they just butchered for no reason. Treating women like dirt under their feet. These are bad, bad people.

There are worse people in America and doing more horrible crimes. The situation in Afghanistan is political where most countries in the world are meddling in internal Afghan affairs, that is the problem.

Bad people exist everywhere.

No matter how long America stays in Afghanistan, Afghans will become more and more frustrated, and will eventually join the fight against America.

America needs to leave, and leave Afghans alone, meaning not support terrorists to get what they want like usual.

The same goes for Russia, Pakistan, India, Iran, China...

I liked the mention of Cambodia

Cambodia, Pol Pot, and the United States: The Faustian Pact is a 1991 book by Michael Haas, professor of political science at the University of Hawaii. Published with the end of the Cold War, the book analysed the United States support for Pol Pot

en.wikipedia.org...:_The_Faustian_Pact

How the Washington Post glossed over
US culpability in Pol Pot's rise to power

www.media-criticism.com...

This guy ranks right up there with Idi amin and the Shaw of Iran, as being among the most hated and murderous leaders of the 20th Century..

The Afghanis were just poled, they would prefer the Taliban to the occupation they are now under.

Which is hilarious because Zbignew Bryzinsky brags about creating the Taliban too.
the US has to quit installing these clowns...

[edit on 9-8-2010 by Danbones]

[edit on 9-8-2010 by Danbones]

If you bomb some one's house and kill his family. What will he do:

a) Greet Aggressors with flowers.
b) Join forces against aggressor?
c) Praise US for Nation Building?

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Not really what I'm fishing for. I do agree that to protect the civilians from a slaughter we would have to stay for many years.

I was hoping for more of a discussion on the rights and wrongs of this. No matter how we feel about going in to begin with, this issue of what happens when we leave is for real to many people. I used Vietnam because what happened is the world turned its back while the slaughtered had no voice. We were wrong to exit how we did. It cost a huge number of lives. Handing those people over to the enemy was worse than joining in their civil war in the first place.

I don't hear any discussion of this to speak of and its very important; if innocent lives are important. I hear everyone wanting the troops to pull out, but almost never do they consider all sides of that issue.

I understand and admire where you are comming from. You are one of the few rare ones who thinks in terms of arm resistance and might to counter the bullying ways of the brutal talibans. It is very noble of you to think that way, and I am sincere of my praise to you. You are the kind of person with noble passions and should be leading mankind instead of the elite with their base emotions.

But noble passions are not enough to win a war, one that sinks him to the level of the animals. At the end of the day, those whom you think you are saving will not see the difference between you and the taliban. Both are equally brutal, causing death and destruction, with them caught in between.

The afghani human is no different from us. He/she shares the same common aspirations as we all do - equality, peace, justice and progress. But having been largely kept ignorant of progresses made by other humanity due to their isolation and deprevation by their political leaders, there needs are simpler than ours.

Therefore what we think is necessary, may not seem that way to them, as our perceptions were shaped by our modern trappings, religion and education. There is more, but to the point - their worldview is different from us. Only commonality lays in our aspirations.

They may not realize or will be willing to accept the fact that they are weak and ignorant, and need your help to secure their lives and usually is out of pride. It is a loss to their manhood, the only thing left that could shine and let them stand tall.

Without that pride, they will never be able to stand tall to their fellow countrymen on who shed blood to save the nation, which is why freedom can NEVER be bestowed by foreigners.

It must come from them, that they have this pride, and a remembrance each time the nation fails to give them strength to fight and stand tall again.

This is not some silly ego, but a vital trait critical for nation building. Without it, there will be no soveriegnity as well as oneness. They will only become strangers living in their own land, caring only about themselves and never a thought of unity.

Best the Alliance walks out now, and let the afghanis settle this issue themselves. Settle for a withdrawal similar to Vietnam. Open the floodgates for refugees mercifully.

The afghanis must stand on their own feet and only this way can they forge a new nation, or be cowed by the warlords, the druglords and the taliban. It will be their free will and choice as a soveriegn people.

There will be horrors being committed to the civilians after the Alliance walks out, and no human can shut their eyes and ears to it. It hurts...but..

The rest of the world can only help by enforcing economic sanctions, not to deal with them, and let their products rot. In time of critical need will the people stand up as one and fight for their rights.

May they do so soon...There is no other way...

May the Afghans, our fellow brothers and sisters by creation, be spared of more sufferings......

Peace.

May the richly pampered generals and the overfed political puppets as well as the taliban finally admit what should have admitted years ago rather than to cost the lost of more precious lives - THEY HAD ALL FAILED!

It is time to stop the war. It had dragged on enough. It is another senseless struggle, loss of resources and more critically, loss of precious human lives.

To be in denial is to drag this chain and wear this carcass around our necks, delusively believing it can be won. For centuries, it had been proven impossible. Might is never possible. You may win battles, but in the end, you will still lose the war - THE WAR OF HEARTS AND MINDS.

The talibans claim a higher moral authority that guided their efforts. Then let that 'higher moral authority' whom is only a human, sit in a council with the corrupted official govt with the Alliance officers and set terms for withdrawal.

The war can be endless if need be, but if each side is truly concern about the welfare of the masses, then there are points for negotiation to end the war, which needs not be harsh or war will only be continued.

Enough is enough!

[edit on 10-8-2010 by SeekerofTruth101]

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


That is the best argument I've seen for walking away. Thank you for posting something to think about.

What you say reminds me of the argument against an entitlement society, Socialism or Communism in their true form. We NEED a reason to get out of bed in the morning and both domination by a government or occupying force and a Nanny State takes that away from us. Same with a Theocracy.

Is the morass of being occupied any different than that of being under dictatorial powers? The end result may be the same. Death is preferable to some things.

Can we speed up the process of a people realizing they actually hold all of the cards if they just join together? Probably not when their is a cultural divide as huge as that between the Western World and Afghanistan or Middle Eastern Theocracies.

Lots to chew on.