Calling all Debunkers, and anyone who thinks Holocaust Denial is offensive, debunk this!

Originally posted by NichirasuKenshin

Originally posted by filosophia
reply to post by NichirasuKenshin

 

news flash: I think for myself, and don't listen to the "godfather of revision" who by the way I've never heard before. I already gave you my reasons as to why the letter is most definitely a forgery and so if you are going to ignore that then I am through talking to you.

So just to make that clear: Although Zundel (the guy that was personally aquainted and was most responsible for David Cole's fame - for god's sake Zundel is the guy in Auschwitz in the Video with Cole) says that he believes the letter to be true and the "conversion" of Cole to be legit you see it otherwise?

You gave no reasons for it being a forgery besides the fact that Cole wrote the letter "in hiding". How is that a reason to call that a forgery?

No, that is not the only reason, that he was in hiding, I specifically stated that there is a string of ad hominem attacks that clearly seem like a forgery, as no one in their right mind would say that about themselves. And guess what, even if he did "convert" (not like this is a religion or anything), it doesn't matter, facts are facts regardless of which side you are on. His conversion, if true, does not invalidate any of the facts he exposed on his video, which is why i think the whole conversion thing is fishy.

Plus, Zundel says that Cole recanted "under threat of the Jewish Defence League"

www.zundelsite.org...

So that is quite different from saying the recantation was legit, he clearly is saying Cole recanted, or at least dropped out of the spot light, because of threat of the Jewish Defense League, which would invalidate the forged letter that said it was done under no duress. The letter was type written with a signature at the bottom, and a string of ad hominem attacks used against himself. However, you are trying to make it seem like my only proof of forgery is that he was in hiding. So if you're going to debunk, debunk it all or none.

P.S., thanks for telling me about Zundel, he even has a rebuttal for your site Nizkor.

[edit on 7-8-2010 by filosophia]

I think the real conspiracy is not the numbers of those claimed to have perished in the Holocaust but the number of people claiming to of survived the Holocaust .



Or the exaggerated sums of money extracted from Swiss banks with pressure applied under the threat of sanctions by the U.S.

This has been documented by Norman Finkelstein and confirmed by Jewish Holocaust Historian Raul Hilberg . link


The sad part is that a lot of genuine holocaust survivors lack proper medical care and live below the poverty line.link

And ironically by exaggerating the numbers of survivor today so as to extort more monies from Germany etc , they unwittingly lend support to the claims of Holocaust deniers .

I agree with an earlier post. There is a special place in Hell for Holocaust Deniers. Side by side with the "KKK", the "Aryan Nation and Brotherhood", Terrorists and their ilk.

When hate reaches that depth in a persons soul, they likely will never recover. All I can say is thank God I'm in a country of laws, with a prison system for when they snap and act on that hate. I pray for their children who will no doubt grow up brainwashed as they likely were by their Fathers. Sadly this is passed on through generations.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
I agree with an earlier post. There is a special place in Hell for Holocaust Deniers. Side by side with the "KKK", the "Aryan Nation and Brotherhood", Terrorists and their ilk.

When hate reaches that depth in a persons soul, they likely will never recover. All I can say is thank God I'm in a country of laws, with a prison system for when they snap and act on that hate. I pray for their children who will no doubt grow up brainwashed as they likely were by their Fathers. Sadly this is passed on through generations.

Ohh there's some hate in that diatribe, I think that special place in Hell is going to be visited by you. Haters are those that label people as Deniers without a trial, without any evidence and don't allow other people to think differently to themselves.

You sir are a hater by your very own definition.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
I agree with an earlier post. There is a special place in Hell for Holocaust Deniers. Side by side with the "KKK", the "Aryan Nation and Brotherhood", Terrorists and their ilk.

When hate reaches that depth in a persons soul, they likely will never recover. All I can say is thank God I'm in a country of laws, with a prison system for when they snap and act on that hate. I pray for their children who will no doubt grow up brainwashed as they likely were by their Fathers. Sadly this is passed on through generations.

I do not deny the holocaust happened. I question the numbers and the accuracy of them.

Does that make me a denier? Do I get to go to your special hell?

I dont need your films to try and debunk one of the most documented events of genocide in history.
1)krystalnact i guess did not happen? Jews openly beaten to death in public. That was just the start.
2) Read Mein Kamph , sorry for spelling, he targets Jews for many of Germanys problems
3) I have patients now years dead who were there both inmates and american liberators. They tell a very different story from what you are trying to perpetuate.
It is amazing as the actual proof of a targeted genocide is dying off, and out come the deniers. It will only get easier for you people who live in a duality state of consciousness of blame and hate to erase and rewrite history as the only proof is gone, those that witnessed and survived it. I feel sorry for you. Why dont you put the same effort into change and write for the future instead of rewriting the past.

I think Holocaust denial is unnecessary.

It's easy to see that things like the Holocaust has happened many times in the past.

In fact, the Japanese killings of Asians during WWII resulted in 20-30 million deaths and half a century of technological setbacks.


It happened, but you know what? People shouldn't take advantage of it. If the Jews really hate the Germans, they would throw nukes at Germany.

Reply to post by doctor j and inmate c5779

Aw... crap. This ^^^^^ was meant for a different thread... dang. Mods delete it please I don`t think I can on mobile... or leave it I don`t really care it`ll just confuse the crap out of people. What I wanted to say on THIS thread is if there are people who want to leave out some info and only talk about 6mill jews and possibly confuse people who didn`t kno about the other 7+ mill, then I would then have to compromise and just tell everyone I know that 6million people total died in concentration camps, and if they want to know who these 6 million people are, well then I would have to be fair and list them in an arbitrary manner, say, in alphabetical order. So from now on we will teach all of our children that 6 million people died in the camps, disabled, diseased, gays, gypsies, enemies of the state, and jews. I`m sure I missed some, but you get the point. Twist the disinfo against itself... And let`s focus on preventing Holocausts instead of debating the past. I mean, debating it is fine when it is done logically without emotion involved by people who are capable of having a mature dialog. And unfortunately there seems to be very few people with the patience required to engage in such a debate. This is why we see so many topical debates being degraded to name calling squabbles instead of the thought provoking dialog which I hear used to be common in the past on boards like ATS. the most common retorts here are something like this: I`m so thin skinned and self conscious of my fragile ego that I am unable to contribute in any meaningful way, so instead I will desperately attempt to maintain the integrity of my anonymous online identity like a drunk who swings blindly at inmaginary foes. Well maybe not most but they are the most annoying so maybe I notice them more. Let`s address the issues instead of addressing the people addressing the issues.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by die_another_day

I think Holocaust denial is unnecessary.

It's easy to see that things like the Holocaust has happened many times in the past.

In fact, the Japanese killings of Asians during WWII resulted in 20-30 million deaths and half a century of technological setbacks.


It happened, but you know what? People shouldn't take advantage of it. If the Jews really hate the Germans, they would throw nukes at Germany.

Yeah, might as well...
They've already showed so much propaganda down their throats that pretty much every German hates himself...
Yeah, I think it's time they put the Germans out of their misery, just like Einstein once suggested...

Yes and the atrocities of Cambodia did not happen either


en.wikipedia.org...


At least 200,000 people were executed by the Khmer Rouge[1]. Analysis of 309 mass grave sites by the DC-Cam Mapping Program and Yale University indicate at least 1,386,734 victims.[2][3] Estimates of the total number of deaths resulting from Khmer Rouge policies, including disease and starvation, range from 1.4 to 2.2 million out of a population of around 7 million.[4] In 1979, communist Vietnam invaded Democratic Kampuchea and toppled the Khmer Rouge regime.

or Joesph Stalin did not

en.wikipedia.org...

Researchers before the 1991 dissolution of the Soviet Union attempting to count the number of people killed under Stalin's regime produced estimates ranging from 3 to 60 million.[80] After the Soviet Union dissolved, evidence from the Soviet archives also became available, containing official records of the execution of approximately 800,000 prisoners under Stalin for either political or criminal offenses, around 1.7 million deaths in the Gulags and some 390,000 deaths during kulak forced resettlement – for a total of about 3 million officially recorded victims in these categories.

But I know because they were not Jewish it really happened.
Because the Jews are bad by those who do not believe in God's word.

But hey all those who survived must be liars thousands of liars they are.

reply to post by aspx

What a horrible picture. And obvious evidence that these were murdered Jews. I mean, look at the bodies piled there. Any fool can clearly see these are not Gypsies, Polish Christians or any of the other types of people held at various concentration camps. How can anyone deny these bodies are obviously dead Jews?
Also, one need only glance at these bodies to determine they were gassed to death. Really, look at them. Do they look like they could have possibly died from disease or starvation?

So having paid my dues to the PC thought police I ask:

What is the purpose of this picture?
How does this picture contribute to the discussion?
Are you attempting to move the discussion to an emotional level?
Does the idea of examining the evidence using logic and reason frighten you?
Is there any reason for me to consider it impossible that these were a group of men who were rounded up at gay bars and sent to concentration camps for being homosexual?
Can I use this picture to justify a claim that we should begin to refer to this event as the Gay Holocaust?
How about a Gypsy Holocaust?
Do all the dead Polish Christians count?
Let us not quibble over the word holocaust. I am simply curious how it became a JEWISH holocaust.

So again. What is the purpose of introducing this picture?

I dont understand why some of you are so angry in their talk, on both sides.
Gas chamber or not ? i dont really care
6millions or 3millions or whatever number i dont really care.
Im gonna say something very childish but war is the only problem.

By debating like some of you do you are just perpetuating this hate.
Thats sad.

when i was young and my uncle was still alive, he told a lot of stories to go along with his tattooed numbers.
the one thing he always told me, is to ignore most of the opinion of what happened and study the writings of those who were actually there.
jewish survivors like himself, to russian soldiers who helped in the liberation.
here is an example of what i mean.

www.questia.com...

I sincerely hope that one day the holocaust is mere side note to WWII lessons in class.

"After Germany's fall it was discovered that prisoner camps were extremely harsh and most prisoners were executed during the war by the Germans"

I think that should be the statement from now on. If you want to look at numbers do a search for WWII deaths. While the numbers vary from list to list, they are reasonably close for such large numbers.

USSR, 20 MILLION estimated deaths, 7 million were civilians.

And what about the other part of WWII that everybody seems to forget, Japan? And I'm not talking about Pearl Harbor(the slight 2300 deaths hardly seem worth mentioning here after USSR's numbers) Japan invade, pillaged, plundered, raped, and murdered Chinese civilians to the tune of around 10 MILLION(not even mentioning military deaths for China), that was well before there was any jewish holocaust in Germany. Funny, I must have missed that chapter in my history book when we discussed WWII in school.

I say, regardless if there was 6 million, 3 million, or the whole thing was made up, MOVE ON. Even at 6 million the jews don't get the prize for being the most killed people during a war.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


I have reread the OP several times and can nowhere find anything suggesting that reading this thread, viewing these videos, or taking part in this discussion is mandatory.

Since you need no one's permission to refuse to do any of these, exactly what is it you are asking?

Oh, I see. You do not want anyone else to discuss it either. Why is that?
If you feel there have been too many previous threads and the subject bores you, you are incapable of ignoring it because............?........because.........??

What does it seem to bother you that others may be discussing it?
Just curious.

My Grandmere is 91 so she can't reply to this thread in person but I will relate her stories to you. She was in occupied France.


-She saw the Jews being rounded up and taken away, she saw them throwing notes and letters, pleading with anyone to contact friends and relatives for them.

-She has one of the star of David patches the Jews were forced to wear.

-Her brother was taken away by the Germans to work in a labor camp. He escaped and upon doing so the Germans showed up at her home to beat her father (my great grandfather) in hopes he would reveal the location of his son. He didn't know anything but that didn't stop the beatings. My Grandmeres brother had joined the underground and didn't return home until the Germans left.

-One one occasion my Grandmere and a friend were forced to shine shoes all night at the local SS office because a German officer thought they had refered to him as "ugly".

While none of this is "proof" per se, I have no doubt that a great evil was brought upon the Jewish people. So deny all you like if it lets you sleep better.

Oh not that it matters but I'm not Jewish.

reply to post by ACTS 2:38


Show me the list of 6 million names of those who died in German Camps ?

Heck they could of said it was 6 billion murdered and fools would believe it.

reply to post by stars15k


All good, valid, points. But none deals with the question of, if this was done to jews, gypsies, homosexuals, Christians, etc. then how did it become a JEWISH holocaust?

Originally posted by Puck 22
reply to post by stars15k

 

All good, valid, points. But none deals with the question of, if this was done to jews, gypsies, homosexuals, Christians, etc. then how did it become a JEWISH holocaust?

They had a really good public relations office.

reply to post by mazzroth


I'm going to hell because I don't lie about history and I don't hate people? Interesting?