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Calling all Debunkers, and anyone who thinks Holocaust Denial is offensive, debunk this!

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posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 01:40 AM
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I live in the Nederland’s (heavily occupied during the War by the Germans), where WWII is still in the memories of thousands of people – imagine my disbelief waking up this morning and logging onto ATS to discover that the holocaust was actually being debated in a post. ATS come on there is no conspiracy and no debate when it comes to discussing the holocaust. Untold numbers of Jews died at the hands of the Germans as did many others but the Russians suffered the most casualties at these death camps. Children where used in experimentation! It did happen and there is plenty of factual evidence, film, records available as do the families whose parents suffered at these camps. It is insulting to them and European history to say it never happened. Unfortunately concentration camps where nothing new, they were already used in Africa during the Boer War prior to WWII but it’s the scale and ruthlessness in which the Germans killed so many. You cannot state it never happened, you can argue until you’re blue in the face, all you will have managed to show is the ignorance we hold in today’s world. It’s incredible!!
I recommend if anyone takes holiday to the UK, London to visit the Imperial War Museum. It has a moving exhibition on the Holocaust exhibiting lot’s of film footage, photos, artifacts, documents from the period.

www.london.iwm.org.uk...

You can’t ignore history!! Shame on you ATS for making this a discussion in the first place! Where is the conspiracy? Where is the argument? Just lost for words….




posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 01:41 AM
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Plain and simple, those in charge of telling the story, make the history. All the Hollywood movies, tv news, books, magazines, anything related to the holocaust, was and still is, manipulated by jewish entities, because they realized that if people are moved by how they "suffered" they will keep supporting their cause. I am just like the guy who posted, have nothing against the people who are victims of the deceivers. But just came here to bold his post. The whole world is a ridiculous show, directed by the jews, financed by the dirty money they collected along so many thousand years. People think only at modern age, specially during war. Wake up people, they invented the money, so they could control our gold, silver, diamonds...Why do you think they are the biggest gold and diamond traders? They´re collecting gold since "biblical times", it´s way above us, and there is nothing we can do about it. the only way of fixing this sick world we live is Ctrl + Alt + delete them and hope a few survive to maintain species



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 01:44 AM
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The Russians actually had more die than the Jews at these concentration camps are you going to ignore their history as well?



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 01:51 AM
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reply to post by Drex5000
 




The question that always pops into my mind when it comes to
this question is what are the motivations for the original
post. Why are some people so particularly driven to prove,
somehow, that this did not happen

What is really driving it?


I'm sure motivations vary, but personally my reaction can be summarized with "Me thinks she doth protesteth too much." There's a lot of emotion attached to it. More than I think is reasonable. People are trained to be angry about it, and trained to attack people who question it.

There are plenty of other unpleasant historical events of similar megnitude, but none of them have the emotional attachment that the "holocaust" does. Why is it "the" holocaust, and why do people make such a big deal out of it while most other genocides don't have names?

The jews have deliberately built an identity out of how badly they've been treated, and honestly, it annoys me. My ancestors were very successfully exterminated when europeans colonized this continent. But even so, you don't see me parading about, training my kids to "never forget" and slinging insults at anyone who questions it. Go ahead. Question it. Tell me that roughly FIFTY MILLION of my people weren't murdered. See if I freak out and insult you for it like people do when others questions the holocaust.

It's time for you people to get over it.



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 01:57 AM
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I do agree the Jewish community have made a buck from the guilt, it wasn't just the jews who suffered. But it is important to not forget what happened so we can try and prevent it from ever happening again.



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 02:04 AM
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reply to post by silhouette
 




it is important to not forget what happened so
we can try and prevent it from ever happening again.


It's also important to live in the now rather than living eternally in the emotions of previous generations.

Did you ever get hurt when you were a child? Yes? Do you dwell on it every day and build memorials to it and insult people for not accomodating you now for having been hurt decades ago? No?

Just like it's healthy for individuals to let go of past hurts, it's healthy for races of people to let go of past hurts. Yes, the jews as a whole were hurt.

Let it go.



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 02:06 AM
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Originally posted by silhouette
I do agree the Jewish community have made a buck from the guilt, it wasn't just the jews who suffered. But it is important to not forget what happened so we can try and prevent it from ever happening again.


Like Phosphorous attacks on civilians and soldiers gunning down children in the street ?



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 02:08 AM
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reply to post by LordBucket
 


I wasn't talking about just the jews, here we go again read what i wrote, this didn't happen to just the jews! And getting hurt as child is a little different on the scale of things isn't it?



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 02:10 AM
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Originally posted by mazzroth

Originally posted by silhouette
I do agree the Jewish community have made a buck from the guilt, it wasn't just the jews who suffered. But it is important to not forget what happened so we can try and prevent it from ever happening again.


Like Phosphorous attacks on civilians and soldiers gunning down children in the street ?


yes, but we never learn...



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 02:10 AM
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Originally posted by mazzroth

Originally posted by silhouette
I do agree the Jewish community have made a buck from the guilt, it wasn't just the jews who suffered. But it is important to not forget what happened so we can try and prevent it from ever happening again.


Like Phosphorous attacks on civilians and soldiers gunning down children in the street ?


yes, but we never learn...



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 02:13 AM
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A good example of a how a race should respond to atrocities committed against it is Japan, they had 2 cities nuked and a relatively small number of casualties compared to the Jews in Germany and yet they outlaw all Nuclear weapons in their country and have been big advocates for disarmament.

If I hated something so much that happened to me I would not want it to happen to anyone else, not so Israel and how its treats the Palestinians like Prisoners in a concentration camp.

Just doesn't add up.



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 02:14 AM
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reply to post by silhouette
 


The problem is we're only being taught not to forget what happened to Jews, nobody seems to care educating people to not forget about everyone who lost their life. Furthermore nobody seems to really care about other genocides before or after WW2, Rwanda and Serbia were both hugely publicised genocides at their time, however now they seem to have been washed under the carpet and forgotten about.

It's that I have a problem with over anything else putting the Jews on some kind of pedestal, like they're superior to everyone else who died and the way they act now is so #ing ironic to how they were treated, they harp on about never forgetting about how they were treated yet they are modern day nutzi's in relation to palestinians.



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 02:15 AM
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reply to post by silhouette
 





getting hurt as child is a little different on the scale of things isn't it?


So you agree that it's healthy to let go of little hurts. Are you saying that it's healthy to hold big hurts in your heart for generations?



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 02:17 AM
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reply to post by mazzroth
 


Absolutly agree, it’s shocking to see it being repeated!



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 02:19 AM
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Once again we are dealing with a certain constant in Jewish suffering, the figure of 6 million. When you see how unreliable that figure really is and you begin to see the forces at play promoting it you really have to wonder what is going on and question the dogmas you have been taught. Or not, that is something you will have to sort out for yourselves.

Though vastly reduced compared to the official count, a great number of jews suffered horribly during WW2. Others profited.

But were it not for the 'unimaginable suffering' of 6,000,000 jews, would they have been granted 'a part' of Palestine (to then go on and take the rest through theft and murder)? Undoubtedly not, they had no more claim to annexation of land in the middle east than the Gipsy's or any other social, political or ethnic group that suffered during WW2.

It seems to me, considering the state of affairs in the middle east today, that this is a fundamental question of paramount importance.

An analysis of the proceedings of the Nuremberg Tribunal tells us that the figure of six million Jewish victims was based neither on statistical evidence from census data nor on the results of an investigation into the material evidence connected to the crimes, but merely on hear-say statements given by two German SS-bureaucrats. One of these statements, given by Wilhelm Höttl was produced only in writing; the other, coming from Dieter Wisliceny was given by the witness in court. However, Wisliceny was never cross-examined. Both witnesses assert to have heard the figure of six million mentioned by Adolf Eichmann, but the latter denied this during his own trial at Jerusalem in 1961.

I was searching through a previous thread to re-post information and, lo and behold, my posts have been edited and most quotations truncated. Interesting huh? Who could have done that I wonder?
I am highly suspicious of threads like these in the first place, they are probably bait, serving merely to draw up lists of particularly undesirable 'dissidents' rather than deny ignorance... Having said that, I'll bite.

Lets get back to our 6 million.

Ilya Ehrenburg, the chief atrocity specialist of the Soviets, had published the figure of six million in the Soviet foreign language press as early as December 1944, more than four months before the war came to an end.
J. Hoffmann, Stalin’s War of Extermination 1941-1945, Theses & Dissertations Press, Capshaw, AL, 2001, pp. 189, 402f.

In May 1944, Zionist activist Rabbi Dov Weissmandel stated that up to that month six million Jews of Europe and Russia had been annihilated.
Lucy Dawidowicz, A Holocaust Reader, Behrman House, New York 1976, p. 322.

It looks like the figure of 6 million was floating around before the war ended, which in itself would be pretty interesting, but it gets much better...

Between 1919 and 1927 there were, in the U.S., massive campaigns organized by Jewish circles to collect money claiming that five or six million Jews in central and eastern Europe were near death.

New York Times, Nov. 12, 1919, p. 7: “tragically unbelievable poverty, starvation and disease about 6,000,000 souls, or half the Jewish population of the earth […] a million children and […] five million parents and elders.”
The American Hebrew, Oct. 31, 1919, pp. 582f.: “From across the sea, six
million men and women call to us for help […] six million human beings.
[…] Six million men and women are dying […] in the threatened holocaust
of human life […] six million famished men and women. Six million men and women are dying […]”

It should be obvious to anyone with an IQ above room temperature that there is a lot more to the mythical figure of 6 million than a population count after the war, which does make sense as it was plainly impossible to do any kind of census work in the chaotic conditions prevailing in Europe at that time.

The mysteriously magic, sacred occult number of six million which actually originated in Jewish scripture is simply untenable. When faced with irrefutable evidence such as above, 'holocaustianity' adherents will generally tell you that the number of victims does not matter and is a trivial matter. However if the number of victims did not matter, there would be no reason for making it a taboo or even go so far as to protect it by laws, as it happens in several European nations. Apparently, there is more behind this figure of six million than just the sum of the individual fates of the people involved. It has become a symbol which must not be abandoned, because any justified doubts about this number would quickly lead to more undesirable questions into other aspects of the Holocaust. It is absolutely dumbfounding that, on the one hand, anyone who questions this figure of 6 million victims is made an intellectual outcast or will even suffer legal persecution, whereas, on the other hand, whenever valid arguments against this figure are raised, society and even judges will sound a retreat, claiming that precise figures are not the point and insisting on the criminal character of even a single victim.

Is this figure of six million a legal yardstick or is it of no importance? Quite obviously it cannot be both.

Seeing as this figure is based on dogma and not fact, this is irrefutable, then why believe the rest of the fairytale? Finally, and this is not a minor point, the truth does not need prison sentences to protect it, the truth is the truth and has no fear of scrutiny. Whenever you are told exactly what to believe and can go to jail for not doing so it might be wise to apply a little critical thinking to the issue.....

Edit - spelling

[edit on 8-8-2010 by D377MC]

[edit on 8-8-2010 by D377MC]

[edit on 8-8-2010 by D377MC]



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 02:21 AM
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are we talking about vietnam?



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 02:23 AM
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Warning Graphic Video Ahead!


Google Video Link


Didn't think there were actually people in this world that really think that the Holocaust was a hoax.



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 02:29 AM
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Originally posted by LordBucket

There are plenty of other unpleasant historical events of similar megnitude, but none of them have the emotional attachment that the "holocaust" does. Why is it "the" holocaust, and why do people make such a big deal out of it while most other genocides don't have names?



I got this:

It is because if you called it the 'Jew Holocaust', you are an anti-semite.

Just for using the word Jew before holocaust -so as to accurately describe it - you will be attacked.

That is why people call it "The Holocaust".

IMO.



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 02:37 AM
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reply to post by silhouette
 


Yes.

Let's also consider the Asians who were also victims of wicked fascist insanity.

That was truth, as revolting as it is to imagine.



posted on Aug, 8 2010 @ 02:39 AM
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This thread is so absurd and insulting it almost does not deserve a reply. However, seeing as so many HAVE already done so, I feel compeled to make a brief statement.

First, being a WWII history major from a serious university, and a retired US Army intelligence officer who actually served in Germany, I will simply say that whatever BS videos are crafted by anti-semitic persons more than half a century after the fact is a poor excuse to deny factual reality. The Holocaust happened, as witnessed to by the entire world in film, documents, and books- not just by jews. And furthermore, its basic plan was presented by Hitler in Mien Kampf well before the fact.

Second, it doesn't matter to the outrageous assertion of the OP, that other groups of peoples were also targetted (as some have bought up) in the Holocaust or some other period of genocide in human history. The point is that it happened to the jews ALSO. And saying it doesn't take away from the tradgedy that is occured to other groups of peoples like: Soviet POWs, homosexuals, Russian farmers, native-American Indians, black Africans, etc. They are all horrid manifestations of the evil part of our nature.

Finally, I will say that having grown up in a half jewish neighborhood in the US, I got to know jews pretty well. And I will tell you that jews do not harbor ill-will or consider themselves superior to any groups of peoples aside from themselves - anymore than any other ethnic group does: Black, Arab, Asian, Greek, etc. To make it clear, since we are dealing with a somewhat large factual comprehension challanged population in this String: every ethnic or religious group I know of, and have met in my life, has persons that are predjudiced or bigoted against others for irrational or emotional reasons. In fact, one may argue that the jews as a group are less so because they emphasize the importance of education and logical thinking more so than many. And god help us all, if education and logic aren't the keys to eliminating ill-will toward our fellow man.

I surely wish I had turned off my computer before visiting ATS tonight, as I am sure I will be savaged by the mob, and probably have disturbing dreams because of what I have read here.




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