ATS = Anti-establishment network, page 1
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 11 times
Topic started on 30-7-2010 @ 11:08 AM by Misoir
I changed the thread title because this one is probably more accurate




I joined ATS for conspiracies and found myself truly interested in the politics section where I now spend the majority of my time. I am not sure exactly if this is new or if I am just now realizing it but ATS has become a place for single sided politics and debate.

I am not telling people to be who they are not, to abandon their political opinions and change them for me because I could not expect that from another person and would not wish that. What I am saying is that ATS has become merely a fringe-right network for paranoid libertarians, conservatives, anarchists or whatever anti-government person you are.

Are you a Liberal, Socialist, Communist or Centrist? Well... You're not welcome! That is what I have observed from sitting back and reading for the past month. Placing my input occasionally and creating 'open mouth, insert foot' threads.

What I have now noticed is that there are very few people who dare to challenge the Libertarian mindset of ATS'ers. If you dare to challenge Capitalism they defend it by saying, "This isn't capitalism this is corporatism". If you dare to support government efforts they say, "Anything government does is by the point of a barrel". And if you dare to challenge their sentiments they attack you as...

A. Ignorant
B. 'Asleep'
C. Sheeple
D. 'Drinking the Kool-Aid'
E. A Threat

It goes on and on...

I am not asking for people to stop being libertarian or whatever you are, I am just asking to give others a chance to voice their opinions or objections without joining together en mass and attacking them. You have probably chased many intelligent and helpful people into hiding with your assaults, we could have a thriving website with lots of civil debates and beautiful ideas if people were given the chance to voice their ideas in a calm and respectful atmosphere where you may disagree with their opinion but you let them voice it.

You can obviously have a debate where you explain to them your position on the issues, but the era of 'ganging up' and making them feel as if their opinion is meaningless needs to end. When you have a civil community where ALL people are free to voice their opinions and ideals in a safe, free and accepting community then we will expand exponentially and great ideas can be created.




I know I have partaken, mostly on the religious side, in posts where I have one-sided attacks against other members or ideas in general. But that needs to end, we all need to become civil, accept others for their beliefs and don't criticize them, if you believe your position is the correct one try and influence them in a positive way.

"You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar."

Definition: You can win people to your side more easily by gentle persuasion and flattery than by hostile confrontation.

dictionary.reference.com...

[edit on 7/30/2010 by Misoir]


reply posted on 30-7-2010 @ 11:28 AM by Misoir
reply to post by badgerprints



Most people keep assuming that I want everyone to agree with me. I DON'T.

I thought I made that clear. If you are a libertarian, conservative, anarchist, liberal, socialist or whatever you are, don't give up your beliefs and ideals to suit anyone else. But don't gang up on people either, don't create a hostile environment to anyone and don't talk down to someone for disagreeing with your point of view.

What is so hard about that to understand?


reply posted on 30-7-2010 @ 11:34 AM by SLAYER69
reply to post by Jenna



Very good point.

When the shoes on the other foot, now all of sudden it's an "Attack" Meanwhile anybody can post pretty much what they want, As long as it doesn't violate ATSs rules.

If someone has a valid point or argument it will show. I think people should stop looking for a scapegoat. That's just being silly.

A posters thread post or reply will stand or fall on it's own merit.


reply posted on 30-7-2010 @ 11:34 AM by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by Jenna



You summed it up quite nicely. I don't know if my friend is from the U.S. But Usually the president quickly goes from being loved to hated in a few months flat.


reply posted on 30-7-2010 @ 11:49 AM by badgerprints
Originally posted by Misoir
reply to
post by badgerprints



Most people keep assuming that I want everyone to agree with me. I DON'T.

I thought I made that clear. If you are a libertarian, conservative, anarchist, liberal, socialist or whatever you are, don't give up your beliefs and ideals to suit anyone else. But don't gang up on people either, don't create a hostile environment to anyone and don't talk down to someone for disagreeing with your point of view.

What is so hard about that to understand?


I understand perfectly, I actually read what you WROTE. You have talked down to pretty much anybody who is a "paranoid, conservative, anarchist.."and then complained about being "ganged up on"

How can you preach at the people you've just tried to run down?

ATS is extremely diverse and has many members from all walks of life and points of view. The fact that you seem to be able to paint the whole site as being paranoid conservative anarchists tells me that you are the one who is having a hard time understanding.


reply posted on 30-7-2010 @ 11:52 AM by whaaa
reply to post by Misoir



It's taken years but I think I have finally determined my ATS designated profile in the political spectrum.

I'm a....

"People like you"

That's how I get referred to very frequently anyway "it's people like you"....

So be it! I'm a PLY and proud of it!





[edit on 30-7-2010 by whaaa]


reply posted on 30-7-2010 @ 12:20 PM by JohnPhoenix
Originally posted by Misoir

I am just now realizing it but ATS has become a place for single sided politics and debate.

What I am saying is that ATS has become merely a fringe-right network for paranoid libertarians, conservatives, anarchists or whatever anti-government person you are.

Are you a Liberal, Socialist, Communist or Centrist? Well... You're not welcome!

What I have now noticed is that there are very few people who dare to challenge the Libertarian mindset of ATS'ers. If you dare to challenge Capitalism they defend it by saying, "This isn't capitalism this is corporatism". If you dare to support government efforts they say, "Anything government does is by the point of a barrel".

It goes on and on...

I am not asking for people to stop being libertarian or whatever you are, I am just asking to give others a chance to voice their opinions or objections without joining together en mass and attacking them. You have probably chased many intelligent and helpful people into hiding with your assaults, we could have a thriving website with lots of civil debates and beautiful ideas if people were given the chance to voice their ideas in a calm and respectful atmosphere where you may disagree with their opinion but you let them voice it.

You can obviously have a debate where you explain to them your position on the issues, but the era of 'ganging up' and making them feel as if their opinion is meaningless needs to end. When you have a civil community where ALL people are free to voice their opinions and ideals in a safe, free and accepting community then we will expand exponentially and great ideas can be created.




[Hidden in post in secret message] O.k. Fred, Barney, Mike, you get ready to attack on the left flank. Steve, Ralph and Bob you attack from the right flank. Tom, you go right up the middle. Let's confuse and discombobulate this guy so bad he stops posting for a week and needs months of therapy. Ready.. Go.
[/Hidden in post in secret message]


Seriously. I feel you man. A deliberate hateful attack is wrong and shouldn't happen. I think for the most part people do try to have civil discussions but as humans (most of us), emotions do get in the way on issues we feel strongly about and people lose their judgment and objectiveness.

I don't think people try to gang up on others.. I mean, it's not a coordinated effort. I think that certain posts invite an emotional response and you find lots of like minded people tend to jump on board to refute that post.

I think on ATS you have to learn to keep your emotions in check and think first before you post. ask yourself is the wording of this post going to invite discussion or is it only there to tear down someone.

Sadly, I believe we are all guilty of the former at some times.



reply posted on 30-7-2010 @ 12:43 PM by EspyderMan
reply to post by Misoir



Im a staunch opponent of anti-fact and theoretical topics that won't allow free discussion of all sides.
Recently i opposed a theory and what that got me was replies which tried to persuade me that i was wrong.
Its not enough to post my opinion, someone has to quote it and show me why im wrong. Thats all fine and dandy, your right to do that. However, its done again if i reiterate my stance with further sources.

It turns into a back and forth thing, then the topic turns from reporting something in the news, to a debate about something not always directly on topic.

I find this place is full of people with an agenda or belief, they post saying their not sure, this is what they have found, signs may point to yes, but when you turn around and disagree it goes from that to "i know for a fact deep in my soul i am right and you should believe me or else your an idiot"

I thought this place would be a good place for discussions and debates that actually moved forward, not discussions and debates that sound like "No your wrong cause you suck!"

People are just way to sensitive and can't handle any criticism, that's why ill post sometimes and never return to the topic. Ive said my piece, someone will always disagree. Me arguing over it just makes me look as bad as them.
Within about 5 posts i got the feeling people don't like me around here. I am too honest and straight forward, i am not invested in friendships here so its easy for me to be on the fence and abstain from replying, and, if i have a strong opinion of something i have no problem posting it even if its a reply to a member who is well-respected and has many friends and my disagreement with them will just garner me a lot of enemies i dont need, and only because i disagreed with someone their friends with.

One day a site will come out that wont focus on the "Friends vs Foes" ideal and allow people to post freely and privately while promoting and enforcing factual discussion with fruitful results.

Here, a name is attached to every poster. Guys like Phage are automatically respected and asked to opine without anyone even know who they really are or what knowledge they may have.
When you create an elite class of posters, everyone below them can be discredited easily by the upper-echelon and shunned, even though the poster may be correct. The mistake was disagreeing with the elitist of the organization.

Sound familiar? ATS and its members are no different then any other organization with an agenda. Although they all like to think they are...

(I know, even this post will rub some the wrong way, but i dont care. I spoke my mind, deal with it )

[edit on 30-7-2010 by EspyderMan]


reply posted on 30-7-2010 @ 12:51 PM by ~Lucidity
Naw. This is just my opinion, but here's how I see it.

There are groups (not saying who because it applies across the board to one degree or another, and besides, they people who do this know exactly who they are) that just have an agenda, and further, a mission to spread that agenda.

They come from a mindset where they decided there was a "war" on and that the enemy was _insert group name here__. They decided that _insert group name here__ fought dirty, so they decided to "fight" dirty too. In this war, you know? So oftentimes, they're not here for actual thinking and discussion or to learn. They're just here to "spread the word."

So, anyway, they organized and equipped themselves with a bunch of predigested talking points from their leaders and heroes and set out on a mission to get this word out by bombarding people with links canned statements, usually taken out of context, that support these talking points and their views and they think it's "discussion" or "participation."

You can recognize this tactic or theirs pretty easily, and you can also predict what we can expect to be bombarded with by listening to certain radio shows and watching certain TV shows the day before, or keeping an eye on certain blogs.

After a while, you can easily tell where and who this stuff is coming from. It's typically not founded in real news or any real substantiated facts that stand alone. And it's typically chock full of cherry picked "facts" mixed with opinion to support said agenda. Yet it's not couched as opinion. And it's not even in their own words. Not really.

Many who really are here to just spread an agenda can't explain or discuss many of the talking points or even the opinions, and if challenged, typically might get angry and call you _insert label here__. I'll let you decide for yourself who tosses which labels around with the most gusto. These boards are full of examples.

It's a shame that we've gone in this direction too, for so many reasons. For one, everyone soon recognizes the tactics and then reacts (depending on mood or situation) in one of three ways: ignore, laugh/ridicule, or maintain patience.

1. Ignoring is a wash, but it sure can help you maintain your own sanity. If you can grit your teeth and let it go without doing number 2.

2. Laughing.ridiculing does nothing but inflame the situation, especially if some agendists are posting for the first time and don't realize that many here have not only heard the same exact thing hundreds of times but are assuming they know where the "discussion" is heading. It doesn't always head there, but it does so with enough regularity that it causes many people to get jaded about it.

3. Maintaining patience to take the points and attempt to debate or discuss is probably the strength here. It can lead to everyone learning more or seeing things maybe a bit differently or better understanding. Or it can still lead to you being called _insert label here_.

So, yes, some people think they're fighting a "war" against other Americans and ideologies rather than working together with everyone else to fight for our country. They don't see how their tactics might be backfiring or often understand why the more free-thinking among Americans don't agree...with either their tactics or their war of their points. And that's a shame. But don't let it bother or annoy you. Just keep on keeping on. Be you.

reply to
post by whaaa



I know what you mean. I'm a liberal pinko commie narrow minded conservative prick with an agenda I'm pushing from my mind.
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