Australian PM wants to ban body armour

Sorry no link, but this is word for word what was on page 1 of our major newspaper here, The Advertiser:

Street weapons to be banned

The Gillard Government will switch its election focus to law and order today, announcing that strict new laws will make it almost impossible to import weapons such as knuckle-dusters and electronic shock devises.
Labor will release a list of 22 weapons, including ballistic knives, butterfly knives, gas-filled shark darts and body armour, that will be effectively banned if the party is re-elected.
Home Affairs Minister Brendan O'Connor said it would help make the streets safer.
"It will mean fewer fatalities and injuries by knives and other weapons," he said.

Since when is body armour a weapon?

And how does making body armour illegal "mean fewer fatalities and injuries by knives and other weapons"?

I think that the public having body armour is a serious threat to safety. Their safety.

Seems like they know something is going to happen in the future which will result in the citizens violently opposing them.

That's the only logical reason for it.

Originally posted by NuclearPaul

Seems like they know something is going to happen in the future which will result in the citizens violently opposing them.

That's the only logical reason for it.

Paul... your logic is flawed old boy... and a bit paranoid! The reason body armour needs to be banned is that it encourages violent/criminally minded personalities to go out and commit crime with a sense of impunity.

I don't know of one average/everyday citizen that goes around wearing body armour just in case... Do you? However I have no doubt that those citizens who do own body armour are ones who are involved in activities that may see them shot back at... yes?

IRM

reply to post by NuclearPaul


But that only restricts the importation of those 22 things? What is to stop anyone getting them here...body armour can't be overly hard to acquire can it...

[edit on 29/7/10 by CHA0S]

In a glass half full kinda way I can see the upside to all the effort they are putting into resricting us and monitering us, and doing things like staging a massacre to take our guns away. It obviously means they are planning on keeping us rather than wipe us out. If you believe the population reductions to 500 million, the whole of oz would fit nicely into that. It may be that countries that have little to no police state or losses of freedom are marked to be wiped when tshtf. They wouldnt bother going to all this effort here if we were just going to get nuked. Its also funny how here in brisbane they are doing massive infrastructure projects, many planned for beyond 2012, almost as though they know the city will be alive and well. There are signs around the city centre that say "Brisbane, the new world city", lol.
Wouldnt ya rather be alive albiet enslaved, with the chance to break free and hold them accountable for their actions still an option.

IR man is quite right.

In Australia the only members of the public that would even think about wearing body armour are criminals planning some sort of violent crime.

So it makes definite sense to limit that, along with other weaponry.

Americans will just not ever understand this.

reply to post by Silver Shadow

In Australia the only members of the public that would even think about wearing body armour are criminals planning some sort of violent crime.

So it makes definite sense to limit that, along with other weaponry.

Americans will just not ever understand this.

Yes, I concur also. I'd definitely never expect to find anyone wearing body armour unless their job required it or they were a criminal...but I know at least two people who own body armour, one guy who lives right out bush about 20 minutes way from me, and another guy who is in a gun club and has a nice collection of guns...but you'd never see it unless they actually pulled it out to show you...

They are even trying to tell us that if they ban the importation of knives, less people will be attacked.

As if a junkie doesn't know how to sharpen a rusty piece of steel with an angle grinder.

If they really want "fewer fatalities and injuries by knives and other weapons", maybe they should be encourage people to wear armour?

The article goes on to state:

The package is aimed at appealing to rising voter fears about knife crime.

Well, I guess all the dumb people will feel safe now. Until they are mugged by someone using a broken bottle instead...

Absolutely. Anything else the government can take off us is a good thing, obviously. The concept of freedom (say, for a person to purchase any item they so desire with their own cash) is clearly outdated and any further restrictions can only help our society as a whole.
end sarcasm

At the end of the day, some of us don't like to be told what we can and cannot do. We would like to be allowed to pursue happiness in any method which pleases us, so long as it harms nobody else.
If someone's pleasure comes from an interest and collecting of weaponry, that is entirely their prerogative and the government has nothing to do with it, any more than if they were collecting antique tins.

A man beaten to death with a piece of lumber is just as dead as if murdered with a highly restricted and expensive item.
And arguments over "ease" with which certain weapons can cause harm are purely subjective; the human body can be an incredibly fragile thing. The number of people who die after slipping in a bathroom and hitting their heads is frightening...should we now ban floor tiles?

[edit on 29-7-2010 by Unresponsible]

No not really.

Sure we have lots of property crime in oZ, but very few shootings or shooting deaths.

America has lots of property crime too, but the rate of shooting deaths is around 6.5 times higher per 100,000 population in the US.

Americans say guns keep them safe.

But for every two shot dead dead Aussies, there are THIRTEEN shot dead Americans.

Those are the cold statistical facts, but Americans would rather die than admit that guns in America are causing all these shooting deaths.
Oh no !! guns keep people safe.

Next time some disturbed psycho opens up in a school and kills a dozen children, Americans will say if every child carried a loaded gun, there would be no more school shootings.
How totally idiotic is that ?

there are enough areas in the world where people fear for their lives just walking over the streets. everybody knows what happens when you ban privately owned weapons... the only people really affected by these laws are the lawabiding citizens.. do you really think that criminals will hand in their weapons?

What will happen is that the lawabiding citizens will hand in their weapons (effectively disarming the populace) while criminals will no longer be afraid for victims to be armed.. crime will go up!!!!

[edit on 29/7/2010 by faceoff85]

Well, if there is a revolution the army will have what it needs to subdue the people.

The disarming of Australia was mainly effected after the incident known as the 'Port Arthur Massacre'.

In that incident, it was alleged that a mentally unstable guy had shot and killed a bunch of people, 35 I think the body count was.

When this first happened, I heard on the news he had killed 35 people. I could not believe my ears when I heard the death toll - it seemed impossible that a single person with a rifle could kill so many.

After further investigating to try and understand how a single person could manage such an incredible kill rate - I found the whole incident as reported by police to be full of holes.

I now believe that the person who was alleged to be responsible had nothing to do with it, he was a patsy - and they actually tried to kill him afterward, but failed.

I believe he was drugged, and they put him in a house and set it, and him on fire - but he woke up. From then on, they did not even let his mother talk to him.

I think the killings in Port Arthur were done by several people, who must have had extensive training and were also unbelievable marksmen. I don't think it possible that any single person could have done it, no matter how fast or how skilled they were. The patsy selected was mentally slow, and had poor hand eye co-ordination - simply impossible for him to have done the shooting.

There is info on the web regarding this conspiracy - it is worth its own thread for sure.

reply to post by Amagnon

The CAR15 was the weapon used and there was special forces standard shooting with moving head shots and Beirut specials.There is only one unit in the world with the CAR15 as its weapon of choice an Israeli one and yes members of this unit were on 'holidays' in Australia at the time.

I know that
Gun owners stop 2 million crimes a year in the states.
Violent crime generally doubles when the criminals have guns and the population doesn't.
most of the shooting deaths the vic was unarmed while the cops were.
oops I mean criminals were.





[edit on 30-7-2010 by Danbones]

[edit on 30-7-2010 by Danbones]

It is interesting though that the crime rate everywhere around the world is steadily rising, probably drugs and the breakdown of family and moral values are a large reason for that.
And when the entire world economy collapses, (as it is about to do), and there is mass unemployment and sheer desperation, violent crime is going to increase even more.

Now Americans love to point out that since we Aussies decided to voluntarily hand in our unneeded guns, the crime rate in Australia has in fact steadily increased. And that is perfectly true.

But violent crime has also steadily increased in America at an even faster rate than in Australia over exactly the same time period.
So 270+ million guns in private hands has done nothing to stem the rise in crime in the US.

All those extra guns and ammunition being hoarded by Americans (for safety) are not reducing the violent crime rate as gun loving Americans choose to believe.

The brutal statistics are, if you live in America you are over six and a half times more likely to be shot dead than if you live here in Australia.
But Americans INSIST America is a much safer place, in spite of the facts.

Now here in oZ we are facing a Federal election in three weeks time.
The politicians are out kissing babies and making long speeches promising anything, absolutely anything, that will win them a few extra votes.

Our illustrious Prime Minister is saying she will ban body armour for the general public, and she believes most Australians will see the logic behind that, AND VOTE FOR HER on that basis.
She (and her advisors) know and understands the general mood here (?), although I personally will not be voting for her party.

That may give you some idea of the vast cultural differences between Australians and Americans concerning community owned weaponry.

The politicians here know and understand what the vast majority want.
And what most of us want is less ready access to lethal weaponry in the general community for the sort of crimes of anger, passion, or opportunity, that most lethal crime is.

We still have brawls, riots, robbery, property damage, road rage, and family disputes here, just as everywhere else in the world.
But being assaulted with a bottle or a lump of timber or a few well chosen words, is rather different to being simply gunned down.

Americans love guns, love war, love weaponry and deadly force.
Your wishes, and your most vicious fantasies are all about to come true.
You are about to get the sort of violence and anarchy many of you so desperately hope for.

And we foreigners will watch it all on TV from a very safe distance, and just shake our heads in wonder at the stupidity and waste of human life as sustained urban warfare, arson, and plunder, rages over the whole of America.

Your nation will end up a desolate smoking total ruin.
But Americans will say good !!
See, our guns may have killed millions of fellow Americans, and we will kill millions more of our fellow Americans, we will just keep on killing and killing each other to stay free.

And that my friends, is just total insanity.

Originally posted by anglodemonicmatrix
reply to post by Amagnon

 

The CAR15 was the weapon used and there was special forces standard shooting with moving head shots and Beirut specials.There is only one unit in the world with the CAR15 as its weapon of choice an Israeli one and yes members of this unit were on 'holidays' in Australia at the time.

Sounds like you should author a thread on this

As I said, right from the start I thought there must be some mistake with the death toll - because from my hunting experiences, you simply can't kill everything you shoot.

So then I thought, well, he must have gone and shot them several times - but in the majority of cases, that didn't happen -it was a single head shot - that was the main reason I couldn't believe the police story - if this guy was that good with a rifle, it would have been well known in the area, if not Australia wide.

For a grisly example, a child was head shot at a range of over 100 meters while running - only a marksman could make such a shot - I seen this kind of shot made when hunting, but the guy with the rifle could literally shoot the wings off hornets (wasps) at 15m - that is literal.

PS: And yes, I agree, it was almost certainly special forces and may have been either mossad or the CIA - the incident was then used as a political tool to disarm Australians.

[edit on 30-7-2010 by Amagnon]

There was very wide pubic discussion that went on for several years about introducing more restrictive gun legislation into Australia.

That all started several years before Port Arthur.

The Australian community after very long open public discussion with both political parties decided to introduce these laws.
We asked for these laws, they were never forced upon us.

There was a year long gun amnesty before these laws were finally introduced, and handing in weapons to police was entirely voluntary. There were never any searches or seizures until after the laws were finally in place.

At the coming Federal election, there is not one single political party making shooters rights their main political issue.

To come forward and make relaxed weapon laws your main political plank in this coming Federal election would be political suicide.
It is why after all these years it has never happened.
Nobody is stupid enough to try something so obviously unpopular.

If we wanted more guns in the community, some bright politician would have turned it into a vote winner a long time ago.
But it ain't a vote winner, and never will be here in oZ.

Why has no US politician ever seriously come up with the idea of total gun bans and confiscation in America.
Why is that ?
Vote for me I will take away your guns, eh ?

It is exactly the same but in reverse here in oZ.
Vote for me, I will flood Australia with deadly weapons, no permits, no background checks. You can own anything.
That would be total and instant political suicide here.

reply to post by Silver Shadow


Actually crime rates all over America including especially violent crime is falling preciptously despite whatever drivel you hear in the propaganda er um news broadcasts. As a matter of fact since 2000 or so I know that crime in Phoenix, as an example that's in the news quite a bit lately, has fallen over 70%. That includes almost an 80% drop in violent crime. And despite the problems since 2007 with the economy which people love to say causes more crime, the rates of violent crime have continued to drop.

People really have no clue exactly why this is happening but some like to point out the trend of gun laws across the US becoming much more relaxed in recent years, leading to many more citizens being able to easily carry guns without facing repressive laws. Now I'm much too busy at the moment to dig up the articles and info concerning what I said above but it's easily verified either via an easy google search or even by using the search function here on ATS where plenty of info has been posted.

Now as for you folks in Australia losing your gun rights, I wouldn't be so worried about common street criminals even though natural law states that every man has the right to defend himself, I'd be more worried about each one of these laws making it a great deal easier for you all to be enslaved and easily controlled by your fascist masters. You know, the same international ones we are fighting.

You have given away your very right to defend your lives and your freedom. In anybody's eyes who aren't trying to lie to themselves, that is a bad bad thing.

Edit for S&G.

[edit on 30-7-2010 by Redwookieaz]

[edit on 30-7-2010 by Redwookieaz]

[edit on 30-7-2010 by Redwookieaz]

That little county that made it illegal not to own a gun, Kennisaw county I think it is called...
Violent crime virtually disappeared when they did that...

Now areas are claiming they can not afford to protect the citizens and the sheriffs are saying to the peeps:
Arm your selves

Criminals would rather have a job then tackle an armed vic

There is lots of BS supporting disarming the peeps. but it is disinfo.
and it is about tyranny

My Aussie x pointed out to me the Aussies aren't allowed dried herbs...
Can't defend your self, can't heal your self, farmers can't use their own land...where does it stop?

Originally posted by Redwookieaz
I'd be more worried about each one of these laws making it a great deal easier for you all to be enslaved and easily controlled by your fascist masters.

That is fair comment Red W.

The risk of that depends on the country you live in, and the type of government you have, and the general nature of the ordinary people..

Countries like Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia, (and these days America), are high on the danger list, because they have (or had) totally corrupt despot leaders.

Countries like New Zealand and Australia have good stable democracies where "we the people" control the politicians. Any blemish or scandal, and they are GONE.
You may have heard that our Prime Minister Rudd got heaved out on his ear because he was unpopular. Not because he actually did anything wrong in the sense of criminal or immoral. He just irritated people.
So now we get to vote in an honest open election with full scrutiny and full paper trail.

Now Obama no matter what he does, no matter how outrageous or illegal, cannot be dislodged from power. All this talk about martial law, FEMA camps, and Homeland Security sounds very ominous.

And your whole Diebold voting system is corrupt and rotten to the very core, as is Congress. It is not even the American voters that determine the election outcome, but some secret Electoral College. How dishonest is that ?
And all the privately owned guns in America will never change any of that.

So clean your gun and feel completely safe and be happy, while your whole nation collapses around you.

You my friend with your loaded gun, have far more to fear from your government than we ever will from ours.
But thanks for your concern.