Judge Blocks Parts Of Arizona Immigration Law

reply to post by Intelearthling


I have a question for you. When did it become just "Mexicans" coming here illegally. I hate to tell you but a lot of the people coming across the southern border are from places like El Salvador (MS-13) and Guatemala. They are coming from all over Central AMerica and the northern parts of South America.

What a lot of people don't understand is that illegals come from China, Tibet, Mongolia, Estonia, Liberia and dozens of other countries. People sell everything and agree to become an indentured servants just to be snuck in to the country. They show up in shipping containers, on planes with forged papers, and various other ways.

It is more than a brown skin problem. I think that is one of the reasons a lot of people claim that the law is racist. They keep hearing people harp about how it should be obvious and accepted that "Mexicans" are the problem. Yet, the problem is much bigger than our southern border and dark skin folks.

Just had a thought does this mean that Native Americans can question any non-natives who happen to be on the reservations? Since everyone likes to claim "we are all equal under the law?"

[edit on 083131p://3726 by mike dangerously]

reply to post by FiatLux

I find it strange, we can fund a war for how many years with lives and money and the government puts so much effort into this, but we can`t even take care of the immigration problems we have here at home.

Adding to the debt shouldn't be considered funding.

Fix our problems at home first before you go stick your nose into others affairs. This problem should have been delt with long before we went off to fight overseas.

I can agree with this. But I ask you, how many decades have we Americans sat back and went along for the ride while we transitioned ourselves to where we are today?

If illegals can cross the border this easy, what about the so called terrorists? What is to stop them? Another item for Arizona to throw at the government in my opinion.

I kindly ask you not to play the terrorist card. First, you are demanding that we basically throw everything at the Southern Border. In doing so we are leaving our other flanks vulnerable. Second, most the terrorist problems we have had problems with have come in Legally with a visa.

If it only costs me a little of my time, then it is worth it in the end.

Then you are a perfect candidate to demand a National Identity card. Most Americans are against it but maybe you can convince with the same logic you used in your post.

Between this and other pending legal actions they will keep this all tied up in the courts for so long that Arizona will be forced to give up, and give in to the status quo on immigration issues as their budget constraints will prohibit continued extensive and mounting legal expenses.

The lawyers will save the illegals, and get rich in the process.

Wake up and smell the real conspiracy!





[edit on 29-7-2010 by Fractured.Facade]

Originally posted by indigothefish
this is good news, the bill itself was not going to solve anything anyway

here is my reasoning

as i said in another thread, when you have a bug problem in your house, you don't just get rid of every bug you see on the spot, while that might work for a bug intrusion here and there, when you've got an infestation happening the solution is to call the bug man and lay out a chemical perimeter around your house which will effectively solve the problem

the illegal immigration problem in america is the same, this bill will enable police officers to stop more people based on profiling, which undoubtably will solve more illegal immigrant problems that have ALREADY immigrated here, but as long as we don't finance and focus our attention and intelligence on building up our borders and preventative measures for this problem, it will keep occuring

that is why i think this bill, racist or not, controversial or not, would not have solved our illegal immigrant probelm anyhow

all this bill was going to do was introduce into our mentality that it's ok for police and officials to question you based on how you look, or for no reason at all, ultimately these are philosophies outlined in 1984 and includes a growth of 'big brother's' powers

HOWEVER

i would like to add it is not neccessarily a good thing though, as the federal government is stating that states do not have the right to try and solve 'federal' problems, and the fact that the federal government is intervening within a states rights to govern itself in it's own rights is bad

though, in my personal opinion, the bill was not going to solve anything anyway, this is a testament to our current times

when america was founded, states were given certain rights apon which the government could not federally interfer, but i fear recent years have created the federal governments beleif that if they so choose to they can intervene in any state however they want, legally or not, they think they're the federal government so they get the final say.. which is not what was originally intended in the creation of america

so ultimately my conclusion is this, we avoided a bill that introduced 1984-like proposals, and yet we avoided it by the federal government jaming into our conciousness that it can do whatever it pleases, i don't know which is worse





[edit on 7/28/2010 by indigothefish]

[edit on 7/28/2010 by indigothefish]

Thank FDR for packing the USSC with lackeys and then perverting the commerce clause of the Constitution to where state's rights are almost a damned joke.

Originally posted by Digital_Reality
I'm just confused as to why they are using all this energy to block attempts to secure the border instead of actually trying to pass a law to STOP the migration of drugs and illegals over the border.

They are literally making no attempt at solving the problem. Its almost like they want to allow the current situation to continue.

Because, with groups like MoveOn involved in November, you'll see more illegal aliens voting in AZ than dead people voted in old man Daley's Chicago.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by TaxpayersUnleashed

 

Good. Now stop sending the feds money Arizona.

Send that money to the sherrifs that arrest and prosecute the illegals.

No Sherrifs arrest and prosecute illegals...that is kind of the point of striking down this law.

If you cut off money to the feds...then how will they fund ICE and Border Patrol...the only two agencies that CAN and DO enforce immigration laws.

OK, first its spelled S H E R I F F - one R, not two.

Ever heard of Catch and Release? That's where the SHERIFF catches an illegal driving without insurance or a license or proof of registration.

Then he calls ICE.. And waits, and waits, and waits and waits for the feds to come and do their jobs.

In vain.

Eventually he has to release said illegal and hope that said illegal will appear in court at the appointed day and hour.

Not many do.

The feds WILL not close the border, nor allow a force-multiplier such as local LEOs to move some illegal butt back over the border! Nor are they making illegal aliens a priority.

ICE is a joke.

Don't worry: this sad decision is going be appealed.

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by FiatLux

 

If illegals can cross the border this easy, what about the so called terrorists? What is to stop them? Another item for Arizona to throw at the government in my opinion.

I kindly ask you not to play the terrorist card. First, you are demanding that we basically throw everything at the Southern Border. In doing so we are leaving our other flanks vulnerable. Second, most the terrorist problems we have had problems with have come in Legally with a visa.

If it only costs me a little of my time, then it is worth it in the end.

Then you are a perfect candidate to demand a National Identity card. Most Americans are against it but maybe you can convince with the same logic you used in your post.

First off, i don`t play any card. Second, what I stated was my opinion. Third, i don`t need your ok to be able to state my opinion.

As for a National Identity card, no thanks, I have my SS card and drivers license, that`s enough.

Originally posted by FiatLux

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by FiatLux

 

If illegals can cross the border this easy, what about the so called terrorists? What is to stop them? Another item for Arizona to throw at the government in my opinion.

I kindly ask you not to play the terrorist card. First, you are demanding that we basically throw everything at the Southern Border. In doing so we are leaving our other flanks vulnerable. Second, most the terrorist problems we have had problems with have come in Legally with a visa.

If it only costs me a little of my time, then it is worth it in the end.

Then you are a perfect candidate to demand a National Identity card. Most Americans are against it but maybe you can convince with the same logic you used in your post.

First off, i don`t play any card. Second, what I stated was my opinion. Third, i don`t need your ok to be able to state my opinion.

As for a National Identity card, no thanks, I have my SS card and drivers license, that`s enough.

Outta da park! Score IS::

Straight Shooters = 1
Sanctimonious = 0



[edit on 29-7-2010 by mydarkpassenger]

[edit on 29-7-2010 by mydarkpassenger]

Originally posted by jam321

Now I ask you this, merely being an illegal immigrant itself is a misdemeanor.

Which other misdemeanor would you offer a 5,000 dollar reward for?

That good sir is a wonderful point. I'd rather see an amnesty option first.

Originally posted by Sri Oracle

Originally posted by jam321

Now I ask you this, merely being an illegal immigrant itself is a misdemeanor.

Which other misdemeanor would you offer a 5,000 dollar reward for?

That good sir is a wonderful point. I'd rather see an amnesty option first.

Personally, I am sick and tired of being on a 60 mph speed limit, two lane, no passing road in Florida, in a string of traffic, all being held up by a pickup that looks like a cross between a mexican whorehouse, a guatemalan shrine, and a frigging carnival on '___'.

Said pickup being driven by an illegal alien going 40 mph because said illegal has no license, no insurance and probably not even a registration - so he's going slow because he's afraid to be pulled over by the cops.

I'd like a bounty on that guy.



[edit on 29-7-2010 by mydarkpassenger]

Well, Well, Just remember you get push and push and push until even the weak will respond with a vengeance.

As Mark Twain once said and I quote:

"Loyalty to the country always. Loyalty to the government when it deserves it." Mark Twain

Freedommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!

reply to post by mydarkpassenger


The other option is to ask the head of police why his cops aren't pulling a motorist that is driving below the minimum allowed speed limit on the highway. (Most states set minimum highway speed at 45mph.) Then ask why they haven't taken the time to get their department involved in 287(g).

If more local LEOs would get involved with 287(g) they could more effectively handle the immigration issue. It would be a lot less of a headache if we weren't relying on the feds and 80 agencies/precincts around the country to handle the problem.

I met a guy while I was in Miami on a job. He was from Cambodia and was here illegally. He worked as a bus boy and rode a bicycle. Maybe we should start rousting Asians on bikes, if they look shady.

Originally posted by indigothefish
this is good news, the bill itself was not going to solve anything anyway

here is my reasoning

as i said in another thread, when you have a bug problem in your house, you don't just get rid of every bug you see on the spot, while that might work for a bug intrusion here and there, when you've got an infestation happening the solution is to call the bug man and lay out a chemical perimeter around your house which will effectively solve the problem

the illegal immigration problem in america is the same, this bill will enable police officers to stop more people based on profiling, which undoubtably will solve more illegal immigrant problems that have ALREADY immigrated here, but as long as we don't finance and focus our attention and intelligence on building up our borders and preventative measures for this problem, it will keep occuring

that is why i think this bill, racist or not, controversial or not, would not have solved our illegal immigrant probelm anyhow

all this bill was going to do was introduce into our mentality that it's ok for police and officials to question you based on how you look, or for no reason at all, ultimately these are philosophies outlined in 1984 and includes a growth of 'big brother's' powers

HOWEVER

i would like to add it is not neccessarily a good thing though, as the federal government is stating that states do not have the right to try and solve 'federal' problems, and the fact that the federal government is intervening within a states rights to govern itself in it's own rights is bad

though, in my personal opinion, the bill was not going to solve anything anyway, this is a testament to our current times

when america was founded, states were given certain rights apon which the government could not federally interfer, but i fear recent years have created the federal governments beleif that if they so choose to they can intervene in any state however they want, legally or not, they think they're the federal government so they get the final say.. which is not what was originally intended in the creation of america

so ultimately my conclusion is this, we avoided a bill that introduced 1984-like proposals, and yet we avoided it by the federal government jaming into our conciousness that it can do whatever it pleases, i don't know which is worse





[edit on 7/28/2010 by indigothefish]

[edit on 7/28/2010 by indigothefish]

True BUT....... If you live in an apartment building (USA) and the Landlord (.Gov) won't call an exterminator then all you can do is rid your own apartment (AZ.) of the pests and try to keep them out and hope the other apartments (NM, CA, TX) will do the same thing.
The landlord wont spray for pests and now I have been told I cant spray my own apartment!

reply to post by mydarkpassenger

Said pickup being driven by an illegal alien going 40 mph because said illegal has no license, no insurance

Really? You can tell all that just by LOOKING at them huh???

Yeah...it's clear this law wouldn't of had ANY racial profiling in it at all...because apparently humans have this sixth sense where they can tell if someone is here illegally...just by looking at them. Amazing.


And then there is this:

OK, first its spelled S H E R I F F - one R, not two.

Did you just go spelling nazi on me??? Is this your first day on the interwebz?

[edit on 29-7-2010 by OutKast Searcher]

Though I mostly skimmed past the same ole "Mexicans do this" and "Mexicans do that" nonsense. I haven't seen anyone say that this isn't the Mexicans fault, that those people who think that America is "theirs" didn't make the "law" stick because they don't want it changed either.

This illusion that Mexicans are literally "taking" is an illusion set up by TPTB, so that people that never really had anything can be angry, about sharing their crumbs.

If people took more time see that while their all distracted on something that they can never change, their own rights are being stripped from them.

Here's a newsflash.

Mexicans CANT take your job.
(thats your managements decision on who they hire)

Mexicans CANT take your benefits.
(because they have to be interviewed, they know who they are)

Mexicans CANT get away with breaking the LAW.
(If they get caught, their in the system, if they get released, was it a breakout? Or a lack of justice?).

These are all of the reasons why this country is in turmoil as it is. We don't have because when someone decides that something is there's we don't care about the consequences of who we step on the get what we want... BTW we don't even get that.

There are threads all over ATS, about our (Americans) rights being taken away, yet we want to fight about a decision that was made by an American judge, in an American system, hmmmm, I wonder who's to blame for that?

Dare I say... America.

reply to post by MikeNice81

I use "Mexican" as a metaphor. Anyone coming across the Mexican border, whether Chinese or Congolese, I'll consider Mexican because the Mexican government isn't doing anything to stop this action knowing how much it displease their neighbor to the north. In fact, the Mexican government encourages the "invasion" of the United States.

What a lot of people don't understand is that illegals come from China, Tibet, Mongolia, Estonia, Liberia and dozens of other countries.

While this is true, no other nation makes their presence here more obvious than the illegals that come out of Mexico by purchasing grocery carts full of goods with WIC and tax-free money at Wal-Mart. My wife has witnessed on many occasions where obvious immigrants will purchase several cases of beer and ice, take it to their vehicle and fill up an oversized cooler and leave the empty boxes and bags ON THE PARKING LOT PAVEMENT!

They make their presence known at the Social Service offices looking for something their own goverment is too sorry to give them yet they will flaunt the flag of Mexico in front of every American with a taunting attitude.

reply to post by jam321

I find it strange, we can fund a war for how many years with lives and money and the government puts so much effort into this, but we can`t even take care of the immigration problems we have here at home.

Adding to the debt shouldn't be considered funding.

My wife is witty and very intuitive. She said that it doesn't take a lot of common sense to know that the cost to keep the illegals out of the US at the border would be cheaper than to detain them and transport them back from Chicago or New York City.

You know? She's got a real point there besides, every illegal that comes into the country and recieves dole is adding to the debt exponentially.

This indeed, is a sad day for America.
The People speak, and some fed, so called judge,
says The Peoples voice does not matter...

I say, Scare them all back to Mexico. It is time, We the People took back
the raines of Power and not only force illegals to prove their status, but kicked them out in mass when they do not have papers on them. That and the end of out-sources our jobs, would give True Americans/Native Americans/legal Immigrates, Their Jobs back...

Every Time I am stopped by an officer of our laws, I am asked for my legal ID, so tell me why should some legal immigrate be frightened to do the same, and if they are not legal, so sad, Bye Bye.

It is High Time our elected officials,Rep/Dem, Closed the Revoling Door of this so called Immigration, Close the Boarders up tight with hardened US Marines, not a few weekend warriors, (No offense), without the full training or numbers to do the job, We need to make it so deadly for the Drug Gangs, crossing into American Territory with their poison, becomes more then unprofitable.

We the People have begged our government toStop sticking our nose into other countries conflicts yet our pleas fall on Deaf ears. Do they not Remember, We the People, put them in office and can vote them out just as easily.

Maybe then we can get back to the job of producing the best goods in the world with the, (Made in the USA) label prominently displayed.

If Congress wants to bail someone out, how about helping the US citizens fighting to keep their homes, while the fat cats sit up in their glass and steel towers. collecting huge fat bonus's for running this country into the ground with their greed...


As Always
In the Year of our Lord
2010
Your Friend and Devoted Servant
RKL




[edit on 30-7-2010 by KittyKat666]

reply to post by Intelearthling


You said

Let's put a spin on things. If by chance that a majority of Americans were dark skinned with black hair and spoke Spanish and the English-speaking light skinned people with blonde, red or brown hair were coming from Mexico to take advantage of the dole here it wouldn't be racial profiling if the dark-skinned, black haired Spanish-speaking Americans stopped them to see if they were Amercan or not. IT WOULD BE OBVIOUS.

It really doesn't sound like much of a metaphor to me. It seems like you are talking pretty specifically about dark skin people that speak spanish.

A metaphor is,

The comparison of one thing to another without the use of like or as : “A man is but a weak reed”; “The road was a ribbon of moonlight.” Metaphors are common in literature and expansive speech.

Link

My wife has witnessed on many occasions where obvious immigrants...

This statement reminds me of something that happen to my uncle, my cousin, and myself. We were at the lake getting his boat in to the water. This little white kid (probably 7 or 8) walks buy and says "something around here stinks." His father said "it's those spics on that boat." The kid said something like they need to go back were they come from.

My uncle walked up to the kid's dad and said "maybe you should take your pasty @$$ back to Europe. The Lakota and Cherokee were here long before Columbus."

Then there was the time a guy in a restaurant said "I can't believe he's dating a Mexican." He didn't think I could hear him. It surely suprised him when I walked over and told him she was an American citizen born in Texas to American parents.

...purchase several cases of beer and ice, take it to their vehicle and fill up an oversized cooler and leave the empty boxes and bags ON THE PARKING LOT PAVEMENT!

I've seen white guys do it as well. I've also seen them shoot at street lights, throw beer bottles in people's front yard, and scam the system to make money. I've seen people of all races do it. I've even seen people steal letter head from their job and sell it to people of all races. Then the purchasers use it to write fake letters "verifying" their employemnet so they don't lose benifits.

One of the people that was doing it was engaged to a former NFL player. She was getting $300 a month in food stamps, plus financial aid for college, and other benifits. All the while she lived with him in a 4,000sqft house. She wasn't illegal and definitely wasn't hispanic.

When I reported it the person at Social Services told me they couldn't take the time to investigate every complaint. They were short staffed and required more proof than just my word. I was told it was likely I was just being vindictive or lying to cause trouble. I was told to basically do the investigation myself and turn over the evidence.

I agree that people shouldn't be able to scam the system and a certain amount of assimilation should be required. I just get tired of always hearing about the "Mexicans" destroying the country. I get really tired of people talking about "brown skin" people causing so much trouble.

We need to get tougher on illegal immigration. WE also need to recognize that it isn't just the Mexican cartels, Mexican Mafia, and MS-13 causing our problems. ICE, the CIA, the Italian Mafia, the Russian Mafia, the Albanian Mafia, the Yakuza, OMCs, and dozens of other small groups have all been involved in drug smuggling, or complicite in the continuation of smuggling. They have also been involved in human smuggling since long before the word "coyote" came in to the mainstream.


CBS News

The worldwide reach of the Russian mob was demonstrated by Ludwig Fainberg, a.k.a. "Tarzan." according to Friedman, the nightclub owner arranged the sale of a Russian submarine, complete with a captain and crew, to Colombian drug runners.

He was arrested before the sale took place, but if the deal had gone through, it would have given the Colombians huge, new smuggling capability: the means to bring 40 tons of coc aine to points up and down the North American Pacific coast.

Yes we need to secure the border, but that is just a small part of the larger problem.